wisconsin in trouble

[Lowbatts]

Because if you overload them with volume, they will turn to you for help in locating sites. I was reading the Smithsonian yesterday, the archaeological community is in a race to beat the illegal dinosaur bone hunters. If you are a caring person, you can pay to join one of the sanctioned digs.

I simply cannot understand what significance fossilized remains of ugly old beasts will reveal that will aid in our becoming better, stronger, faster predators ourselves. Difference? None, we allow those with pedigrees to feed on us. How many accredited bone diggers would be there in the first place had some whacky locals and then amateur/profit-driven diggers not shown them where the digs were?

Likewise as has been said here before the 9,999th stone point recovered by and archie will give us what additional insight?

Nope, I'll be out at Uncle Johnny's, he's chased off the archies before, shotgun in hand, tractor under-ass and don't mind one bit if anyone else plops a point out his fields. Okay, somebody lived there long ago and whipped the chipped stone to get food or fight. We get the point and in fact, you archies wouldn't get any at all if left to your own means.

Archaeology should be off limits at any site found by md'ers or treasure hunters.

 

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[diggemall]

Tom

Onfire started this thread by making the following claims:

Stoped in at the state park today to get permit for the year and was told as of this week all detecting on state land is forbidden .and no permits will be given out. ................................................................all water detecting on wisconsin water ways is also forbidden even pop tops are to stay put

1) If, in fact, this is true, then people DO need to be aware of it. "Flying under the radar", "don't ask, don't tell", or feigned ignorance is not an excuse for breaking a law.

2) If this is NOT factual information, then it deserves to be clarified as well, for the very reasons you are so adamant about.

My point is that, in searching state statutes, I have been unable to verify or deny this claim. The fact that I couldn't find anything in the voluminous archives of the statutes doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it just means I couldn't find it. However, if someone has encountered a change in a long-established permitting policy at one of WI's state parks, there is likely a reason that that change has taken place (it is very unlikely that one park ranger has decided to change established rules on his/her own) and therefore warrrants some sort of substantiation.

I much prefer to deal in facts rather than hearsay. I also prefer NOT to get a citation for something that has been made illegal without my knowledge.

Diggem'

 

[Gettintoknowsomethin]

If anyone wants to send a E Mail to the guy that started the DNR detecting ban here is his E Mail address. mark.dudzik@wisconsin.gov

 

[Gettintoknowsomethin]

You are lucky! at least he answered you I never got a reply!

 

[MD Dog]

The states are going under, so there won't be a problem MDing aftyer the fall, just stock up on rechargeables and figure a way to recharge them and your set to go, unless your busy hunting dinner. :P

 

[Gettintoknowsomethin]

I found this correspondence googling online check it out! http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=217496.5;wap2

 

[littletwig]

It's kinda like the old saying, "the squeeky wheel get the grease" but with a bad twist. A bunch of complaning could lead to the new saying, "The squeeky wheel get the BOOT".

 

[garrettman64]

first of all your question then my answers
It is much better to let something rot in the ground forever than letting someone other than an archaeologist get it for a private collection (as long as nobody is watching)... yes?

After all, professional archaeologist's would never sell history...

http://v2.archaeological-center.com/welcome/index.shtml


But then again... we are up against this-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5741078.ece


as an archaeologist the rules state there to be cataloged and placed in a museum
as an metal detector person i believe in the same However i also have perserved a site that's being Destroyed

The person who Hunt digs such as persons perserving sites called archaeologist as you know are great we perserve them because there threatened and well when these Pot Hunters see this they Move in at night UN announced and pick up dig up anything put it on eBay and make Money That Makes me Puke and If I caught them here in what i am doing O god I can not say it i would get kicked off the forum
so ya see there is a difference between Post Hunting digging Illegally and legally Perserving a site

\Just My $ .02 worth


Perhaps a common middle ground could be reached with some form of training and certification?

 

[Deno]

It's not just our hobby that is in jeopardy, America as we know it is in danger. It's time to man up and fight.

 

[garrettman64]

It's not just our hobby that is in jeopardy, America as we know it is in danger. It's time to man up and fight.

Yes Deno I agree

There is a Lot of Things where America is not America any more However There is Much work in the archaeologist field that has to be done if i told you you would not believe it how many countless hours it takes for 1 test pit at 50 cm x 50 cm(Centermeters)
and the level by level the sifting and the looking many many many hours But very enjoyable I hope to go back to the site this year and try to save more not sure at this point in time its about 10-15,000 Bp which means Before Present

just a look at how and why we should perserve America

 

[Goodyguy]

I am a metal detector hobbyist and also a student of archeology and belong to a local archeology club. While I can appreciate the point of view from an archaeological standpoint of keeping artifacts in the ground undisturbed, I also see the metal detectorist side of the issue as well.

My feeling is that there is always going to be a conflict of interest between the two sides.
However since archeology has achieved both professional and academic status compared to the hobby status of metal detecting and since they have the most power we will surely have to be the ones to compromise.

I suggest it would be in our best interest to figure out a way to establish a policy in this country, to bring the two sides together for mutual benefit. Otherwise I believe we MD'ers are going to see even more land in this country closed to our hobby.

Parks and public places are becoming off limits to metal detecting at an alarming rate. And not only because some good citizen decided that asking for permission would be a good idea.

I believe that there is a concerted effort by certain archies ( who think we are out to steal the artifacts of the past, present and future) to lobby against all use of metal detectors by the general public, period.

Sure we could just go on as if nothing was wrong and just hope for the best. But un-informed citizens are going to continue to ask permission to hunt public land even if You and I know better than to.

With this in mind I believe we need to have a plan B in place at some point, before our hobby is outlawed.
We are in this together and together we must find a solution to address this ever growing problem before it is too late.

Goodyguy~

 

[garrettman64]

HMMMM I have to agree with ya good guy we must all work together to perserve the past
here is a link to our museum that i belong to
first link is the address

http://www.planetware.com/map-of/middleboro-robbins-museum-of-archaeology-us-ma-midm.htm


second is the web site

http://www.massarchaeology.org/

Please Enjoy you visit
Thanks from The Garrettman64

 

[Con]

Better get use to it, Wait till Obama takes the right away from you from owning a gun and from owning metal detectors. Hell the Gov't is going to tell you when your aloud to go outside soon

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

There is a movement in this country <<<< where there are people who dont want you to hunt, fish, or own a gun ... Their thought is you dont need to do that, thats why we have grocery stores.. your just going out there to aimlessly kill animals.. you dont need a gun, guns kill people... so do cars and drunks but you never hear that cry... Every metal detector dealer who does face to face business with some one wanting to buy a detector needs to tell that person, cover your holes, thats a must.. they also need to tell that person keep a lower profile dont agravate people ...Government is only a word, its narrow minded people that have their narrow views that click together, to make it difficult for us in our hobby, to detect..or gain access. We have to do more good will to turn this tide around or that will be the next cry .... no detecting.. I hope I never live to see that happen..I dont know if challenging will do any good or if it will make it worse. The more it seems that you contact the state or the DNR your just bring things to mind that they had not thought of and something more they can look into and stop.>>>some one said >>>Perhaps a common middle ground could be reached with some form of training and certification? <<<<<< as far as that goes, that could be another user tax or fee.. and once your on paper, big brother will be wanting to know how much your pulling in each year.. how many rings, how much change?? another form on your taxes at end of the year.. The less the state is in your business the better off your gonna be...

this all stinks,and i think will be accelerated by the current administration.we are sliding ever closer to socialism daily.
anything even slightly individualistic will be banned.
everything is about money and power. hobbyists will never triumph over paid professionals. while ur taking time out of ur schedule to comment .if person chooses to reply they are paid to do so.who will fight harder for their cause?

although i think we will see problems elsewhere.get ready to say goodbye to many of or rights.guns yes and eventually the right to worship as u choose OR NOT.

WELL CURRENTLY the problem is wisconsin,so lets stick to that for now. I HAVE HATED WISC POLICIES FOR YRS.THE BIGGEST PROBLEMis a ready made suckers market. CHICAGO ILLINOIS.THE WISCO DNR HAS FEASTED ON millions of dollars in income and fees from wealthy illinoisians. the scenic beauty of wisconsin coupled with a much more rural atmosphere are an automaric magnet for chicagos millions. who want to escape for the weekend. well i suggest an alternative. MICHIGAN.the only possible way to be heard on this issue is to start subtracting dollars. ONLY THING they understand.i started taking my lesuire business elsewhere when the DNR got cute and decided to up their fees at the same time discontinuing garbage service at their state parks.right im gonna pay double to get in and i cant throw away anything .MICHIGAN IS DETECTOR FRIENDLY.the state parks most can be hunted and i did. i wrote letters to their STATE PARKS and TOURISM COUNCIL thanking them for their policies and a great time.these are the kind of letters to write.only kind that will help.if u must use wisco recreation head for the federal areas. national forest. if ur a resident i feel sorry for you.IF ALL TNETTERS WOULD JUST SAY NO TO WISCONSIN IT MIGHT NE A SMALL STEP.i have not spent money there in yrs. i even carry a spare gas can .

PS.last example of their greed. several yrs ago we decided on a cc ski trip to kettle moraine state forest. after paying a large enrty fee just to get in.we found out the cc ski area had an additional trailhead fee. try 16 dollars for 2 cars to get in and add an additional 8 dollar trailheadfee per person x4.is48 dollars. ouch.trails were horrible not groomed etc.

 

[George (MN)]

I doubt the states could control detecting on private property with permission, or detecting in city parks & public schoolyards. A few counties disallow it, not sure if state archaeologist influence or what.

So many of you talk about keeping a low profile. I prefer to detect parks filled with people! I don't leave any holes & I like to deposit trash in barrels near people so they will know I'm cleaning up the place. In my own suburb, I even detect right in front of the park & rec HQ bldg, using a screwdriver.

Unless it's for sure your city has a detecting ban, why not detect neatly while others can watch you? The public doesn't hate us for having our own type of fun.

As for the professional archaeologists, if they can get paid $18,000 for digging up $3 worth of bullets, as long as they draw on a map exactly where they were, they'll get paid big bucks to dig up pulltabs and zinc dust (former pennies) if they chart their locations. Does anyone really need that info? If so, why? If not, how do they keep their jobs? Nobody wants to lose their jobs. Do archaeologists view us as a threat to their jobs? If so, what's the solution? HH, George (MN)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

George, if someone was angling for clad in the turf, where only poking with a screw-driver was involved, then yes, no need to keep a low profile. No need to go at low traffic times to avoid busy-bodies.

But if a hunter avoids clad, and is strictly an old-coin hunter (passing surface targets in the turf), then it's not advisable to go in front of as many people as possible. For me, when I hunt old turf, I don't even stop to chase a target, unless it's 7" or more deep, to begin with. So for hunting like that, you kind of have to treat it like nose-picking: you gotta be a bit more discreet.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

I wonder if this could be challenged?

Anything can be challenged, if you have backing.


If metal detecting is outlawed, then only outlaws will have metal detectors

 

[Goodyguy]

I have been thinking about this problem at length and have been receiving input through various avenues and the conclusion I have come to, is that most of our trouble has stemmed from two major sources and then compounded by a third and then ruled on by a biased fourth party, The state Archaeologist.

Detectorists who leave holes uncovered in public parks and citizens who ask permission to hunt public areas when none is needed, coupled by complaints from outraged onlookers because of the digging and unfilled holes, have called attention to what we are doing, and the first thing the authorities do is check for policies that forbid the practice of digging and retrieving objects on public property. Guess where that leads? .........Straight to the antiquities act and the interpretation of it by the state Archaeologist. Next thing you know the parks are closed to metal detecting.

Goodyguy~

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Drop a dime on the archies. Turn them in for illegal possession of artifacts and lets see if
they can document the legal recovery of each and every artifact in their possession.
If they can't they lose one hell of a lot of credibility. Do it to all of them and it won't
matter what they say about anyone else it won't be believed or acted on. Eventually
they may decide they have more important things to worry about than what honest
hobbyists are doing. siegfried schlagrule

 

[Seamuss]

Stoped in at the state park today to get permit for the year and was told as of this week all detecting on state land is forbidden .and no permits will be given out. Iv been told if the state has its way all metal detecting in the entire state will be a no no, all water detecting on wisconsin water ways is also forbidden even pop tops are to stay put All this started with 2 guys with indian artifats being caught by a state arc. (rock hound) and having the ability to change the law to his way of thinking This is only the beginning God help US in the US

If pop tabs have to stay put then Wisconsin will be a land fill if pulic sanitation cannot sweep the streets or pick up trash.

Think about the dumb laws before they legislation. After they pass, it's to late.