XTerra 705 and NEL coils?

[gdzag]

Relative Newbie with a question... Any one use a NEL coil(s) on their XTerra? If so, what have your experiences been? I have a XTerra 705 with these coils:

Minelab 6" Concetric 7.5khz
Minelab 9" concentric 7.5khz
Minelab 10" X 5" 18.75khz
Coiltek 15" WOT 7.5khz
Coiltek 6" Digger 3khz (Just got)

Thanks for looking.

 

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[Longhair]

Best not to go there.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/m...-xterra-705-coil-7-5kh-but-elliptical-dd.html

 

[dirtscratcher]

Relative Newbie with a question... Any one use a NEL coil(s) on their XTerra? If so, what have your experiences been? I have a XTerra 705 with these coils:

Minelab 6" Concetric 7.5khz
Minelab 9" concentric 7.5khz
Minelab 10" X 5" 18.75khz
Coiltek 15" WOT 7.5khz
Coiltek 6" Digger 3khz (Just got)

Thanks for looking.

They work great. I have the sharpshooter and it is my favorite coil for the 705. If you search this and other forums you will find users very happy with these coils. You will also find the same people on this and other forums trying to say the are inferior and may harm your detector. IMO vflex is minelab way of extortion money by insisting you buy their more expensive coils. Would you buy a car and let the seller tell you you have to buy tires from them at an inflated price or a gun that you can only shoot the most expensive bullets.

 

[Longhair]

If you search this and other forums you will find users very happy with these coils. You will also find the same people on this and other forums trying to say the are inferior and may harm your detector.

ost people grow up and learn the difference between right and wrong.....while some never do.

IMO vflex is minelab way of extortion money by insisting you buy their more expensive coils.

Then why don't they do the same for all of their machines? Simple fact is that V=Flex is vastly different from coils for other machines. If they were just copper windings in an epoxy filled case it would be no different than any other coil and it wouldn't make a difference.....but that's not the case.

Would you buy a car and let the seller tell you you have to buy tires from them at an inflated price or a gun that you can only shoot the most expensive bullets.

So instead you should buy unbranded tires or bullets from a guy in an alley that says he's "got a deal for you"?
Again, fact is that Minelab has even gone as far as to make firmware changes to prevent you from using unauthorized coils, which is why unauthorized coils require that you go through a procedure to start your machine to force acceptance of their illegitimate coil (not ever necessary with authorized coils).

 

[dirtscratcher]

ost people grow up and learn the difference between right and wrong.....while some never do.
Then why don't they do the same for all of their machines? Simple fact is that V=Flex is vastly different from coils for other machines. If they were just copper windings in an epoxy filled case it would be no different than any other coil and it wouldn't make a difference.....but that's not the case.
So instead you should buy unbranded tires or bullets from a guy in an alley that says he's "got a deal for you"?
Again, fact is that Minelab has even gone as far as to make firmware changes to prevent you from using unauthorized coils, which is why unauthorized coils require that you go through a procedure to start your machine to force acceptance of their illegitimate coil (not ever necessary with authorized coils).

You make it sound like NEL is hide when that is not the case. You bring up a good point minelab is also trying to extort money from fbs2. Seems to be the direction they are heading right. You mention unbranded products, what in the world is that supposed to mean? They fact that they had to changed to try and stop NEL coils from working which they still do only proves my point. Why is it that no the manufacturer is doing this?

 

[cudamark]

Apple computers has been doing that from the beginning. If you don't want to deal with a proprietary product, buy another brand. I agree with your objection, that's why I only own models that will take an aftermarket coil. That might change if they come out with a far superior model that I just can't live without! I haven't seen one of those yet........

 

[dirtscratcher]

Apple computers has been doing that from the beginning. If you don't want to deal with a proprietary product, buy another brand. I agree with your objection, that's why I only own models that will take an aftermarket coil. That might change if they come out with a far superior model that I just can't live without! I haven't seen one of those yet........

You are very right if vflex were magic instead of a gimmick the would have a little more of a leg to stand on. I love my minelabs and believe they are the most well built detectors made. But I still have to call a spade a spade.

 

[Longhair]

You make it sound like NEL is hide when that is not the case. You bring up a good point minelab is also trying to extort money from fbs2. Seems to be the direction they are heading right. You mention unbranded products, what in the world is that supposed to mean? They fact that they had to changed to try and stop NEL coils from working which they still do only proves my point. Why is it that no the manufacturer is doing this?

NEL is selling illegal coils, and you seem to think that it's OK as long as they don't get caught. You're also under the misimpression that they make a coil that's as good.
Yes, they are doing the same with FBS2 coils, because FBS2 is a hybrid of FBS and V-flex. And the reason that no other manufacturers are doing it is only because no other manufacturer is bringing anything new to the table. Minelab is the only company actually engaged in new innovation, and you want it, but aren't willing to compensate them for their investment in design. You would rather pay a company that steals their technology through reverse engineering, even though it is inferior.

 

[atomicscott]

NEL is selling illegal coils, and you seem to think that it's OK as long as they don't get caught. You're also under the misimpression that they make a coil that's as good.
Yes, they are doing the same with FBS2 coils, because FBS2 is a hybrid of FBS and V-flex. And the reason that no other manufacturers are doing it is only because no other manufacturer is bringing anything new to the table. Minelab is the only company actually engaged in new innovation, and you want it, but aren't willing to compensate them for their investment in design. You would rather pay a company that steals their technology through reverse engineering, even though it is inferior.

If the NEL coils are "illegal", what law are they actual breaking? Or is it only the fact that they are not coils approved by ML? Unauthorized is one thing, but Illegal would indicate to me that NEL is actually breaking some law(s). It would be great if Minelab would just offer a round 6" 7.5khz DD coil. This would put a huge dent in the sales of NEL X-Terra coils. Please, no more over priced coiltek coils! I am totally cool with the current price of ML 6" coils, and they perform great. Give the job to Coiltek, & price shoots up to $200! That is BS

 

[gdzag]

NEL is selling illegal coils, and you seem to think that it's OK as long as they don't get caught. You're also under the misimpression that they make a coil that's as good.
Yes, they are doing the same with FBS2 coils, because FBS2 is a hybrid of FBS and V-flex. And the reason that no other manufacturers are doing it is only because no other manufacturer is bringing anything new to the table. Minelab is the only company actually engaged in new innovation, and you want it, but aren't willing to compensate them for their investment in design. You would rather pay a company that steals their technology through reverse engineering, even though it is inferior.

Lots of passion here as to whether or not NELS are good or bad, for variuos reasons, and I really appreciate the comments from everyone.
Each side has presented valid arguments. At this point it seems as if I'll continue with Minelab or Coiltek Coils.
Dirtscratcher, I have heard plenty of good about NELs for the Sovereign... So there must be something there. But at this point, I'm gonna play it safe.
I gotta say that I'm lovin my XTerra 705 and find the LCD readout great. I have a Blisstool V3 with 11" and 15" coils and a Sovereign GT, but the 705 is so easy to be successful with... It's incredible.
Longhair, I live in Trenton, MI

 

[atomicscott]

NEL is selling illegal coils, and you seem to think that it's OK as long as they don't get caught. You're also under the misimpression that they make a coil that's as good.
Yes, they are doing the same with FBS2 coils, because FBS2 is a hybrid of FBS and V-flex. And the reason that no other manufacturers are doing it is only because no other manufacturer is bringing anything new to the table. Minelab is the only company actually engaged in new innovation, and you want it, but aren't willing to compensate them for their investment in design. You would rather pay a company that steals their technology through reverse engineering, even though it is inferior.

If the NEL coils are "illegal", what law are they actual breaking? Or is it only the fact that they are not coils approved by ML? Unauthorized is one thing, but Illegal would imply that NEL is actually breaking some law(s). It would be great if Minelab would just offer a round 6" 7.5khz DD coil. This would put a huge dent in the sales of NEL X-Terra coils. Please, no more over priced coiltek coils! I am totally cool with the current price of ML 6" coils, and they perform great. Give the job to Coiltek, & price shoots up to $200! That is BS

 

[dirtscratcher]

How hard could it be to catch them when dealers are selling them everyday? You call it new innovation but some of us call it something else. I own a 705 and like it, but there is no magic in vflex it is a flippin metal detector. It's not that I would rather pay someone else for minelabs tech, it is that I will not be extorted to pay for a metal detector coil that is no different that any other except an attempt to force the illusion of some unfound magic. I guess if you keep saying they are inferior someone will believe you but that is not the case in my experience and many other if you search this and other forums.

 

[Longhair]

If the NEL coils are "illegal", what law are they actual breaking? Or is it only the fact that they are not coils approved by ML? Unauthorized is one thing, but Illegal would indicate to me that NEL is actually breaking some law(s).

It is patent law that they are violating. V-Flex is patented technology in the U.S. and Australia. But not unlike a lot of laws recently (like immigration), enforcement is nearly non-existent.

How hard could it be to catch them when dealers are selling them everyday?

It would be the dealers selling them that would pay the price if caught. It's only been a year or so that dealers have been bold enough (or ignorant of the facts) to sell NEL coils for Xterras here. Before that you could only get them mail-order direct from NEL.

I own a 705 and like it, but there is no magic in vflex it is a flippin metal detector. It's not that I would rather pay someone else for minelabs tech, it is that I will not be extorted to pay for a metal detector coil that is no different that any other except an attempt to force the illusion of some unfound magic.

If what I've presented to you to date isn't enough evidence that they ARE different from all other coils, then there's no point in my trying any further to convince you about something you refuse to understand. You should probably off your 705 and go buy a Bounty Hunter since Minelab is only a rip-off that has no "magic".

 

[Longhair]

I have heard plenty of good about NELs for the Sovereign... So there must be something there.

I have no issue with NEL producing coils for any machine except Xterras and the CTX, as they are the only ones that are patented technology.
If you want to buy a NEL for your Sov, E-trac, F-75, or AT-Pro....knock yourself out.

Longhair, I live in Trenton, MI

I'm over near Lansing, but do get over to your area from time to time. Maybe we can get together for a hunt at some point.
Have you looked into joining the Michigan Treasure Hunters? If you do, I'll probably catch you at a meeting (in Livonia).

 

[gdzag]

I will definitely consider it... Livonia is 20-30 minutes away and at this point I'm just a sponge taking-in as much info as possible. Love this stuff!

 

[atomicscott]

I have no issue with NEL producing coils for any machine except Xterras and the CTX, as they are the only ones that are patented technology.
If you want to buy a NEL for your Sov, E-trac, F-75, or AT-Pro....knock yourself out.
I'm over near Lansing, but do get over to your area from time to time. Maybe we can get together for a hunt at some point.
Have you looked into joining the Michigan Treasure Hunters? If you do, I'll probably catch you at a meeting (in Livonia).

I was under the impression that v-flex was used (mainly) to be able to change from the stock (7.5 khz) frequency to the other options by 'seeing' what coil is attached to it and changing frequency to suit the coil. If coils are produced by NEL say, without any chip in the 'stock' 7.5 frequency, would that still be infringing on patents? The advantage of changing the freq would be gone, it would merely be a size advantage (which many XT users would love) and another DD option. Is the chip in te coil necessary using the 7.5khz frequency, or is it only to change the frequency?

 

[atomicscott]

I have no issue with NEL producing coils for any machine except Xterras and the CTX, as they are the only ones that are patented technology.
If you want to buy a NEL for your Sov, E-trac, F-75, or AT-Pro....knock yourself out.
I'm over near Lansing, but do get over to your area from time to time. Maybe we can get together for a hunt at some point.
Have you looked into joining the Michigan Treasure Hunters? If you do, I'll probably catch you at a meeting (in Livonia).

I was under the impression that v-flex was used (mainly) to be able to change from the stock (7.5 khz) frequency to the other options by 'seeing' what coil is attached to it and changing frequency to suit the coil. If coils are produced by NEL say, without any chip in the 'stock' 7.5 frequency, would that still be infringing on patents? The advantage of changing the freq would be gone, it would merely be a size advantage (which many XT users would love) and another DD option. Is the chip in te coil necessary using the 7.5khz frequency, or is it only to change the frequency?

 

[Longhair]

The chip in the coil is a necessary component regardless of the frequency.
V-Flex is much more than just the ability to change frequencies. If it weren't then you might as well have (for example) a DFX.
I posted a bunch of info about V-Flex Technology in the other thread. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/m...coil-7-5kh-but-elliptical-dd.html#post4313515

 

[dirtscratcher]

I was under the impression that v-flex was used (mainly) to be able to change from the stock (7.5 khz) frequency to the other options by 'seeing' what coil is attached to it and changing frequency to suit the coil. If coils are produced by NEL say, without any chip in the 'stock' 7.5 frequency, would that still be infringing on patents? The advantage of changing the freq would be gone, it would merely be a size advantage (which many XT users would love) and another DD option. Is the chip in te coil necessary using the 7.5khz frequency, or is it only to change the frequency?

Atomiscott can you tell any advantage vflex actually does for the coil that any other coil does not do? Seems to me 100percent smoke and mirrows.

 

[atomicscott]

Atomiscott can you tell any advantage vflex actually does for the coil that any other coil does not do? Seems to me 100percent smoke and mirrows.

The literature does state that the gain is amplified somehow with the chip in the coil. I haven't tried anything but the Minelab coils, but I have heard (not only from you) the NEL does work great! I still wonder if NEL has actually stolen ML technology, & they actually put a chip in the coil. I don't think it would be worth the trouble, as X-Terra coils probably account for a small amount of coil sales for NEL. Especially considering all the coils they make for the many different brands.