Yet another "need a license to metal detect" hoard unveiled

[MiddenMonster]

This one is a very cool silver coin and gold jewelry hoard from the Netherlands that dates back to the 11th and 13th century. It was found by a metal detectorist back in 2021. While the article points out you need a license to metal detect, it doesn't say if the detectorist had one, though he/she did report it to the proper authorities. The finds were then snatched up and holed away in a museum, where the archaeological dieties have now deemed us worthy to glance upon these treasures that they, and only they have the worthiness to carress. I have to say, the pictures they provide of this hoard are pretty stunning. There were a lot of wars going on when this loot was stashed, and it makes me wonder what became of the people who buried it. It must have sucked having something of value and there not being any place where you could put it and have it remain secure. I'm so glad we have banks these days for that kind of stuff. They never collapse. Yessiree, can't go wrong there...

Nationally important treasure hoard from the medieval period unveiled

I wonder how they would feel if some descendant of the original owners popped up and could actually prove it belonged to their ancestors. I'm sure that the authorities would give it to them, along with a big fat tax bill that exceeds the value of the jewelry and coins.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[pepperj]

Not sure how the treasure act works in the Netherlands, though in Britain it works quite well.
Anything over 300 yrs old, being of 10% silver or gold content has to be reported. (not single coinage)

A hoard as this would be deemed a treasure, and the British Museum has first right of refusal to purchase.
If purchased the finder and the land owner do a 50/50 split.
The purchase price also has an appeal process.
Hoards as this one are put on display, as they're a huge draw for any museum.

For putting all the trust in the safety deposit box-they (banks)just the holder-not responsible for the contents of the box.
So if the mask bandit rips off the safety box depository-too bad.
Lots of banks put this vaults downstairs, great! Till there's a big flood, and the vault fills with water.

Been there had that one happen-papers sat in blackwater for almost 3 weeks-handed back in a big old plastic bag dripping wet-and smelled like a septic tank.
Now imagine if the rare paper, notes, or even coinage sat there in that-value? Slid a whole way down the ladder.
Banks responsibility-net zero basically.
They don't own the contents-just the keeper of the box.
Sad but true.
As far as banks failing? SVB and Signature are the 2 latest ones.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Not sure how the treasure act works in the Netherlands, though in Britain it works quite well.
Anything over 300 yrs old, being of 10% silver or gold content has to be reported. (not single coinage)

A hoard as this would be deemed a treasure, and the British Museum has first right of refusal to purchase.
If purchased the finder and the land owner do a 50/50 split.
The purchase price also has an appeal process.

I guess "well" is a matter of perspective. If I found the Lost Aztec Gold on my own private property I believe it should belong to me. Museums, government agencies and even the Mexican government should have the right to bid on it along with private collectors and entities, but the price paid should be determined by the free market.

Appealing a government museum valuation to a government agency that represents the interests of government doesn't sound legitimate to me. Let's say you find a 1,000 year old gold necklace set with an array of jewels. The British Museum declares it treasure and values it at $100,000. You appeal that valuation and it is raised to $125,000. But what happens if you have private offers 10 times those amounts? Does the government valuation automatically rise to match them, or does their claim and valuation win the day? And don't forget the taxes.

As far as banks failing? SVB and Signature are the 2 latest ones.

Yeah, that bank comment by me was total sarcasm because of the recent bank collapses. Interesting fact about banks and safety deposit boxes in the U.S.: Most, if not all don't allow you to store cash in them. Granted, they aren't watching you while you access the box, but I think they look at it akin to how McDonald's would look at someone bringing in Kentucky Fried Chicken and eating it in their restaurant. Banks want you to deposit money with them so they can invest it, not stash it with them and have it just sit there.

 

[pepperj]

I guess "well" is a matter of perspective. If I found the Lost Aztec Gold on my own private property I believe it should belong to me. Museums, government agencies and even the Mexican government should have the right to bid on it along with private collectors and entities, but the price paid should be determined by the free market.

Appealing a government museum valuation to a government agency that represents the interests of government doesn't sound legitimate to me. Let's say you find a 1,000 year old gold necklace set with an array of jewels. The British Museum declares it treasure and values it at $100,000. You appeal that valuation and it is raised to $125,000. But what happens if you have private offers 10 times those amounts? Does the government valuation automatically rise to match them, or does their claim and valuation win the day? And don't forget the taxes.


Yeah, that bank comment by me was total sarcasm because of the recent bank collapses. Interesting fact about banks and safety deposit boxes in the U.S.: Most, if not all don't allow you to store cash in them. Granted, they aren't watching you while you access the box, but I think they look at it akin to how McDonald's would look at someone bringing in Kentucky Fried Chicken and eating it in their restaurant. Banks want you to deposit money with them so they can invest it, not stash it with them and have it just sit there.

Paper notes, proof coins, stamps vs water.
Guess what happens.
Value of each is toasted.
The appeal process is valid.
Look into it a tad.
Each item that is bought is cross referenced with book sale records.
So if your treasure is worth $X about on the open market. The museum isn't going to be giving you a bum deal.
See the other way has been tried, and some make out like little bandits.
The others are sitting behind bars.

 

[MiddenMonster]

So if your treasure is worth $X about on the open market. The museum isn't going to be giving you a bum deal.
See the other way has been tried, and some make out like little bandits.

Seeing that "the other way" is letting the finder keep what they find on their own property (or other private property with the owner's permission) and have the market decide what the value is, I'd say your two statements above are in contradiction with each other. And if I found valuable treasure on my property I would most definitely want to make out like a little bandit. That's actually the goal! "Be happy we gave you what you got" goes on the books as a Big L, in my eyes.

We don't have the same treasure laws in the U.S. that Europe has. But we do have "eminent domain" laws, where the government can take your property for what is called "public use", i.e. roads, parks, schools, etc. In those cases they offer a bit above whey they assess the market value to be, which is often far less than what the market value actually is. And when property owners try to fight this in court, they are pretty much fighting the government in a government arena, with a government referee controlling the process.

 

[pepperj]

Seeing that "the other way" is letting the finder keep what they find on their own property (or other private property with the owner's permission) and have the market decide what the value is, I'd say your two statements above are in contradiction with each other. And if I found valuable treasure on my property I would most definitely want to make out like a little bandit. That's actually the goal! "Be happy we gave you what you got" goes on the books as a Big L, in my eyes.

We don't have the same treasure laws in the U.S. that Europe has. But we do have "eminent domain" laws, where the government can take your property for what is called "public use", i.e. roads, parks, schools, etc. In those cases they offer a bit above whey they assess the market value to be, which is often far less than what the market value actually is. And when property owners try to fight this in court, they are pretty much fighting the government in a government arena, with a government referee controlling the process.

Not disagreeing your reasoning at all.
Each country has their own rule book.
Then each individual State, county, city.
All are there to pass some law, rule on what we can and can't do.
To fight the system is fighting one's own pocket book.
When it's empty they will still probably win.

 

[MiddenMonster]

All are there to pass some law, rule on what we can and can't do.
To fight the system is fighting one's own pocket book.
When it's empty they will still probably win.

That's true, but I come down firmly on the side of private property. If I found some valuable piece of old jewelry and there was any identifying piece of information with it I would do everything I could do to find the descendants and return it to them. But in the absence of such identifying information I would firmly stand for my right to keep it. And for that reason I wouldn't contact any authorities until it was sold and I had to pay taxes on it. If I lived in Europe I would surely be in a quandary. But in the U.S. I would be on firm ground, provided I found it on my own land. The only question would be how to clear the decks on converting it to cash. The various levels of government here have a habit of declaring things stolen or the proceeds of ill gotten gains in order to get their hands on it. And that often leads to long and expensive court fights.

 

[Gare]

Nice postings Pepper !!

 

[wanderinPat]

Yes and trustinng the U.S. goverment is just a great idea. Latest example is The "dents run" trreasure the fbi/doj (a criminal group if there ever has been one) stole it. Then denied it was there. Now claiming they have the sole right to it. If I ever find treasure they will not be contacted by me.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Wanderinpat, please leave political comments (FBI/DOJ) out of posts except in our politics forum per our rules.

Thanks...👍

 

[releventchair]

Passed down through family...Perhaps.
Or a wonder their still not bloody.

One matching pair.
One victim?

Diverse coinage. Cuts/shares/or individually acquired items of plunder/

Or a well travelled (and perhaps wealthy) persons collection. what would the neighbors think. Or local shop when I pay with nonlocal coinage?
Maybe such was popular then and there abouts. More so if ones title or position had multiple distant areas commonly part of travel , a "four corners" residency spot aside.


Pursed. wrapped. Contained.
A writer elsewhere wrote of nightly caches made under bedding spots by invading soldiers.
An attack would route them of course but so too a planned morning mission or battle near.
If time allowed , bringing ones plunder and baggage might be doable. If it was desired on the field vs remaining in camp. Though if you fall , it could be expected you'd be plundered.

This recovery group picture's recovering detectorist likely has some interesting hunts in the area..
And such a recovery would inspire more no doubt.

 

[MiddenMonster]

A writer elsewhere wrote of nightly caches made under bedding spots by invading soldiers.
An attack would route them of course but so too a planned morning mission or battle near.

It was common for soldiers to keep their money with them, since banking is an historically recent development. The wealthier soldiers were at least able to travel with their servants and attendants, and they would (supposedly) protect it back at the camp while the soldier was out fighting. But raiding the enemy's camp was also a big bonus for the victorious army. I think it is in Victor David Hanson's Carnage and Culture where he says that many battles that were on the brink of victory were lost because the troops flanking the enemy were supposed to wheel around and hammer the troops from behind against the anvil of center line troops, but failed to do so. Instead, once they had successfully outflanked the enemy they charged on to the enemy's camp to loot it, leaving their own troops abandoned.