You CANT Do THAT Here!

[dahut]

I had a little time between appointments today, so I jotted on over to the local high school. This site was once a former plantation home, then a school was built there in the early 1950’s. Everything from Barber coins to common clad has come out of there. And while finds have diminished over the years, it has always offered a restful place to detect when school is out. Until today.

I was working along some trashy sidewalks with my sniper coil, when I looked up at the sound of a car going by. This was at the back of the school, where interim classrooms are sited. It was an odd place for a car, so I was not really surprised to see it was a cop car prowling along. My next thought was that they had seen my truck parked nearby, under the trees.
“Uh oh,” I mumbled. “This can't be good.“
So I clicked off and went to talk to them. Better to go to them, than to have them come looking for me.

As I rounded the classroom building, a cop was standing next to my truck, looking around nervously - looking for me, no doubt. She had her walkie-talkie microphone in her hand and was speaking into it.

I hollered and waved, smiling broadly as I approached. "Looking for me?" I called.
At the sound of my voice the policewoman spun around and made a bee-line for me.

"What are you doing here?" she demanded. Few good encounters start out with that phrase.
So, I held up my detector and pointed out the obvious to her.

"Oh, well... you cant do that here!"'

"Why?" I asked.

"Only students and faculty can be on school property," she declared smugly. Without asking, she was certain I was neither.

It didn’t matter that both of my children graduated from that very high school. Nor was it known that I knew most of the teachers at one time, and many of the students, too. And I pay my taxes to keep the place in operation, like everyone else. It didn’t even matter that I had known this very policewoman personally, for years.

"Now Penny, you can see I’m not up to any harm, can’t you? How long have you known me?
What if I told you I returned a high school ring to its owner last year - a ring found on these very school grounds? This is my hobby.”

"Well, that’s nice of you Mr. H. But you can’t be here, doing that sort of thing. We’ve had break ins…"

So there it was, the "The Unassailable Break-in" excuse. I had been waiting for that. When all else fails, use the threat of security.
I mean, when has a school not faced the threat of break ins… and how can anyone muster a rally against that? I knew, then, that the jig was up.

About that time the second cop car arrived and stopped a little too abruptly, swirling up a big cloud of dust for effect.
The summoned back-up had arrived!
I felt kind of important actually, a middle aged detectorist that rated backup. The new cop jumped from the car and made straight for the other officer. The two of them talked quietly amongst themselves, never once speaking to me. I might have not been there for all the care they showed me.

Back Up Cop finally turned and said officiously, "You can't do that here; you can do it anywhere else you want, just not here."

"So that’s how it is, eh?" I retorted politely.

"Yes, sir, we’re just doing our jobs."

Again, how does a decent citizen argue with that untouchable statement?
Controlling authority figures have relied on it for compliance down through the ages for good reason.

I suppose it is a sign of the times. The sad thing is, it will be hard to drum up support for my high-school detecting case, when I mount my inevitable protest. See, most other people will blindly accept it, parroting the New Age line, "The cops are just looking out for the kids, you know."
So what am I, chopped liver? I also have a stake in protecting my neighborhood school and would turn in anyone I thought was suspicious.

In fact, once it was learned that I am a decent citizen with nothing up my sleeve but my arms, these authorities ought to say,
"Oh, you’re alright, Mr. H., and you know - it‘s good to see you.
By the way, if you see anything suspicious, please let us know. There have been break-ins, after all..."

But I'm dreaming, aren't I? Perhaps in another time, it might have happened that way.

Today, the Great Collective Mind kicks in, and slips on it’s smiling mask. Much frowning goes on behind that mask, however, over anything that smacks of independent activity. The New Agers can’t relate to you being alone within their realm of authority, pursuing some harmless activity.
Suspicion is their by-word, "We need to pass a law!" their motto.

Once it is known that you are within their sphere of influence, yet out of their direct control... on school grounds, no less... well, something must be done about that. It is just that simple, for them. We have rules, you know.

"Go somewhere else, sir,” they'll say. “And remember - you can’t do that here. Oh, and have a nice day.“

 

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[dahut]

I spent ten years with the SHeriffs Office where this happened and I know alot of the Public Safety Officers in the city. They,like most of the cops I know are hardworking and honest. Most don't need the headache of escalting a simple encounter with a citizen into something unnecessary and most aren't looking to bully anyone around. The school administrators in this area are really strict about persons on school property and I suspect that if you had of been on a playground or around the ballfields Penny might have been more understanding but I can't speak for her. I'm certainly not saying that you are wrong for being there but it's just the way it is now in the post 911 days.

Many members here have made the comment that schools are public property. It may be so - until the school district gives the police jurisdiction over the premises, as in this case. The cops, no matter how you feel about them, are entrusted with security at the school. They take that seriously. Some will say too seriously; I tend to agree. Regardless, they don't "evaluate" a chubby, middle aged guy detecting, nor do they have to. It's their call and they immediately think Columbine High and react.

In Penny's case, she is the public safety officer "in charge" of the school... it is her beat, so to speak. Finding me in a little back corner of the premises was worrisome. I get that.

I also get that I was in the right. But that is as far as it goes. The police don't have to accept that you are a righteous citizen; not any more. You don't have to be an actual problem - you just have to be where they don't think you should be.

For them the solution is simple: forbid access. It is expedient, alleviates repercussions over "derelection of duty" and keeps us within the lines. If I had called out her supervisor, on the spot, do you think that person would side with me? If I went to the station, now, and ordered the Chief of Police to get me a glass of water, how do you think my situation will end up?
Besides, I never think of such things. I'm used to solving my own problems, not trusting the police to do so. The thought of doing such things never occurred to me, until I became a "problem."

Truth be told, I'm still not in a lather over it. Philosophically disappointed? Yes. But, frankly, I'm surprised it took so long.

P.S.
The police have essentially been given carte blanche, with high schools visible enough to rate their own public safety officer. That is a sad bit of 'zeitgeist', but the sheepizens we share our cities and towns with are convinced we need it. You and I, we independent minded detectorists, are a tiny microcosm - the rest fairly clamor for a cop to watch us and our kids. Safety in the modern age equals police monitoring and enforcement, viewed as small price to pay for security.
The cloud that accompanies that silver lining is that we must come to grips with the school - and our society - as a police state.

Makes you believe in George Orwell, dont it?

I wonder how the ACLU would view this?

 

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[ivan salis]

easy tell them --- you guys know me --I'm a straight up citizen type thats doing "no harm" --- plus while I'm here detecting it will help "stop" any break ins because theif's like to do that kinda stuff when no one is around to see em at work and call you fellows on em --or be a "witness" to what their doing" * so when your there --( as a "set of eyes and ears") you actually help "stop" break in's from happening *** like a for free security guard *** try that "tactic" and see if they say -- UH we do not want the public's help to stop crime * or "leave it to the "professionals" ----- because no cop or politician in their right mind would ever say anything like that -- because thats front page newspaper "cannon" fodder. --so and so says they do not want the public to assist in stopping crime

in others "explain" how your assisting them to "stop" break in 's --by being there -- your a "spare set of eyes and eyes" out to help them -- esp if they know you and your on a good "citizen" type basis with them.

 

[Keppy]

I'm sure all these "i hate cops" posts help our cause

Yep, you are right. What I think is funny is the ones always doing the most complaining say they "used to be cops". I just figure these brave macho talking ex cops couldn't handle the job and blame the hard working cops for there failures. Now bashing the police on a website makes them feel all big and bad.

lucky 1777.................I think your wrong... really really wrong.wrong wrong your talking through your cop hat.....

 

[Keppy]

first of all, I wouldn't have gotten up or looked at them. I would let them do what they do, they observe and draw their own conclusions, regardless of who you are.
second, never walk up and act all friendly to a cop, they will think you have something to hide. nobody walks up to a cop they don't know on a personal level and has a smile and wave and how do you do. it just doesn't happen.
remember one thing that police officer had no right or law to back them up when they said you can't do that here.
that is a public school owned by the school district. it's not city owned property

Sniffer ... You are right did all of you know that if you have a auto accident on school property and no matter who was at fault and calls the police THE POLICE can not write a ticket to any one ....it is out of there jurisdiction.. They have no legal authority to write tickets on school property.

 

[jmaryt]

I spent ten years with the SHeriffs Office where this happened and I know alot of the Public Safety Officers in the city. They,like most of the cops I know are hardworking and honest. Most don't need the headache of escalting a simple encounter with a citizen into something unnecessary and most aren't looking to bully anyone around. The school administrators in this area are really strict about persons on school property and I suspect that if you had of been on a playground or around the ballfields Penny might have been more understanding but I can't speak for her. I'm certainly not saying that you are wrong for being there but it's just the way it is now in the post 911 days.

Many members here have made the comment that schools are public property. It may be so - until the school district gives the police jurisdiction over the premises, as in this case. The cops, no matter how you feel about them, are entrusted with security at the school. They take that seriously. Some will say too seriously; I tend to agree. Regardless, they don't "evaluate" a chubby, middle aged guy detecting, nor do they have to. It's their call and they immediately think Columbine High and react.

In Penny's case, she is the public safety officer "in charge" of the school... it is her beat, so to speak. Finding me in a little back corner of the premises was worrisome. I get that.

I also get that I was in the right. But that is as far as it goes. The police don't have to accept that you are a righteous citizen; not any more. You don't have to be an actual problem - you just have to be where they don't think you should be.

For them the solution is simple: forbid access. It is expedient, alleviates repercussions over "derelection of duty" and keeps us within the lines. If I had called out her supervisor, on the spot, do you think that person would side with me? If I went to the station, now, and ordered the Chief of Police to get me a glass of water, how do you think my situation will end up?
Besides, I never think of such things. I'm used to solving my own problems, not trusting the police to do so. The thought of doing such things never occurred to me, until I became a "problem."

Truth be told, I'm still not in a lather over it. Philosophically disappointed? Yes. But, frankly, I'm surprised it took so long.

P.S.
The police have essentially been given carte blanche, with high schools visible enough to rate their own public safety officer. That is a sad bit of 'zeitgeist', but the sheepizens we share our cities and towns with are convinced we need it. You and I, we independent minded detectorists, are a tiny microcosm - the rest fairly clamor for a cop to watch us and our kids. Safety in the modern age equals police monitoring and enforcement, viewed as small price to pay for security.
The cloud that accompanies that silver lining is that we must come to grips with the school - and our society - as a police state.

Makes you believe in George Orwell, dont it?

I wonder how the ACLU would view this?

hey dahut!
the "smart" play is to just go to another school,..however it appears you have a distinct desire to "challenge"
authority,so therefore i wish you the best of luck in your most interesting endeavor!

 

[GopherDaGold]

Like I said, NEVER do it "In the field" Cops are notorious bullies with massive egos and relish a chance to escalate the situation.
Then YOU become the "Bad Guy" and the "heroic officers" were merely being the "Thin Blue Line"

Any law enforcement officials care to offer a counterpoint?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Well,

I am one of those "annoying" citizens that pay the police's salary and pays taxes to keep the schools open, and, who will, and have, gone right to the source (the school board), and I would have made it a big deal.

I can't do that here, because we've asked our town hall and they said- hey, go ahead - just please don't leave any holes, and maybe you'd consider donating to the local museum (which we have, and continue to do - I really don't need a broken spike jack, but its neat to see it all cleaned up with the notation "donated by:" on it.)

But, in other places besides here, we have run into that, and I will (and have) dragged it right out in the open - a certain carnival grounds comes to mind - it belonged to the fire station - and they don't allow that (turned out, it didn't belong to them - just donated to them during carnival time only).

Beth

Beth

 

[Keppy]

Yep, you are right. What I think is funny is the ones always doing the most complaining say they "used to be cops". I just figure these brave macho talking ex cops couldn't handle the job and blame the hard working cops for there failures. Now bashing the police on a website makes them feel all big and bad.

#1. You should probably stand down about things you OBVIOUSLY don't know ANYTHING ABOUT.
#2. If you would like to see the REASON I am not "a cop" anymore, look up "corruption" "racketeering" "abuse of authority", "officers stealing and selling drugs" "officer testimony" and "10th and 4th Precinct, Detroit "
#3 if you have any more questions or something to say to me, you PM ME.
You see I'm USED to cops threatening me and my family, they did it for years, as I had the 'unmitigated GALL' to NOT think I was 'above the law', and earned the title "rat" for calling ALL criminals, even those with a BADGE what they WERE.
Threaten away, it's what you do, and nothing new to me.

lucky 1777 and jmaryt,,,.. Spooky knows what he is talking about you don't......... Spooky is telling you the truth..........

 

[sniffer]

most people don't realize that cops are less than human, they have a badge so they think they're untouchable right
up to the point they are arrested and then they still want to blame it on something or someone

 

[Keppy]

most people don't realize that cops are less than human, they have a badge so they think they're untouchable right
up to the point they are arrested and then they still want to blame it on something or someone

And another true statement......... your right on.

 

[sniffer]

aaahhh, my wife left me, that's the ticket. my mom passed away I didn't know what I was doing. uh huh.
quick, give him that gun with no serial #, put it in his hand. yeah, right

 

[Shortstack]

If you are not willing to stand up for your rights in the small cases, then you don't deserve them. Case in point:

In my small town, the police department is fairly small and have to "cut corners" in some areas in order to have patrol officers on staff. Sometimes that includes sending new hires out on patrol BEFORE they go to school and become certified. Did you get that
A neighbor was ticketed for failure to come to a complete stop at a 3-way stop. He tried to explain that he DID stop because he needed to look back and check on his wife who was following him in another vehicle. The overweight lady cop told him that he DID NOT come to a full stop and wrote the ticket. I'd seen this same "officer" give a verbal warning to a lady for doing the same thing at the same intersection. They were of like complexion; different from my neighbor.
Knowing of the town's short cuts in past associations, I suggested to my neighbor that he should call the Mayor or the police chief and tell them what happened and ask them if the lady officer was certified. He did this and a short time later the same day received a phone call telling him that the ticket had been "dropped". As I had pointed out to him, if she had not been certified, she had absolutely NO business driving on patrol alone writing tickets and carrying a weapon. OOOOOOOPS!!!! I guess the Mayor was unaware of that.
Had my neighbor NOT stood up for his rights, he would have been out $175; which he could not have afforded. He is the Pastor of a very, very small church group.

 

[jmaryt]

,..however it appears you have a distinct desire to "challenge"
authority,so therefore i wish you the best of luck in your most interesting endeavor!

You mean like an AMERICAN?

Yeah, we should get in line shut up, accept it and drink the koolaid, huh?


WOW.

yeah..

Just get on the train.... We're taking you to the "showers" CITIZEN.

"Oh, OK, you are in authority, so you MUST be RIGHT"

people are apparently "breakin' into this school!..they have had concerned citizens contact them!
the cops are checkin' everything out because they have been told to!..they responded!..wait until the mess dies down,and go back there if ya want!
just make sure the kids are not in school!..give it 6 months!..go some where else in the interim!..(w.t.f!)

 

[Keppy]

Another one for the "derealization" file!

yep yep

 

[tmanfromtexas]

I am glad to see that the cops are protecting the school from folks like us. You know, the ones that pay school taxes and city taxes. Dirt Fishing Dave and I were at a school that was closed down in Gary Indiana when not 1 but 4 cops showed up to tell us we were tresspassing on private property and we had to leave. I looked at the cop and asked if this wasnt school property and he said yeah, it is, but the property is private and we need to pack up and leave now. Folks this was on Easter Sunday and in GARY INDIANA. This town is a sh*t hole with drugs, shootings and burned out buildings. Its not Detroit but damn close. That is all they had to worry about that day I guess. TMAN...

 

[ford7379trucks]

yes go strait to the police chief and politely tell him what happened. he will inform the rookies trying to be hard asses to stop harassing you. That is what they were doing. Harassing you. They have no idea if you were doing anything wrong. You were just doing something they don't see often. They were thinking they mite impress there bose's if they pissed you off enough to give them a reason to arrest you.

 

[s.c.shooter]

No one wants the cops around until they're the victim. Then they want to know why you weren't patrolling their neighborhood, business parking lot or whereever the incident location happens to be. Cops don't arbitrarily tell citizens they're tresspassing and have to leave. They do however , do what their Chief, Sheriff etc. tell them to enforce. Even if they don't necessarily see the alleged problem with for example someone metal detecting on school property. If you do it and it's allowed you shouldn't have a problem, if not then by all means contact the boss. Many of these are elected officials and if they get enough pressure from the voters it's not uncommon for them to have a change of heart. Don't however blame the officer for doing his thankless underpaid job!

 

[GopherDaGold]

Nice to see these responses from such preeminent authorities on the subject.

 

[Monty]

Hmmm, not a cop bash post eh? Sounds like it to me. I see at least 4 posts from someone who thinks he/she knows it all but wouldn't make a pimple on a cop's a ss if they tried. Just keep on believing you have all the answers and we'll see you in the pokey before long. Be sure and tell the next cop you see that you pay his salary and to get you a glass of water. I'm sure they'll run right over and do that. You probably don't pay enough taxes in a year to hire him for ten minutes of your life. Next time you need help, call a convict, yeah they can be trusted more than the cops. I personally know at least 600 cops and sure some of them are a ss holes just like some members of this forum. But most of them are good honest people who do a thankless job to keep your butt out of a sling. Just keep on keeping on and you will make a lot of friends and influence people. BS If you are trying to get a rise out of a cop you did, congratulations. Monty

 

[ford7379trucks]

I hope your not referring to me Monty. I am a LEO. I'm not a cop I'm a CO but my family has been cops and cos sense 1903. The trouble is all these kids there hiring now. There all trying to impress there boss by writing tickets and harassing good people. It has nothing to do with that I pay your salary BS. Its kids that need to grow up going around town thinking there god. We have it real bed in my little town. We have 2 kids in our little town. They pull people over for no reason and illegally search there car, hold them up for a hour, give tickets for 31 in a 30. They both have many harassment complaints agence them. The 1 has more then 10 that i Know off. There are many good cops. But he was not trespassing and he had every right to be there. The best way is to go to the chief and he will take care of it.