Gold Miner on my CA License

[Bodfish Mike]

Just got my CA Drivers License in the mail.
Was surprised to see a gold miner use in the background graphics.
This state was built on mining what the hell went wrong.
Mike

 

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[FingerChili]

Ban, moratorium, not issuing permits, they are all effectively doing the same thing. Saying ban was just an easy way to say it, I assumed you knew what I meant. I'm a grown man, I try not to make a habit of "playing games" with people I don't know on the internet. Sometimes a question is just that, a question. So again, have you read the "science"?

They're not all the same, even if the result is us not being able to play in the stream. I support a moratorium (temporary ban) if they can support it with science. If they can, in a reasonable amount of time and cost, find a solution to them wanting to "save the environment" or whatever, and us wanting to play in the stream, then so be it. Hasn't the moratorium only been in effect for 2 seasons? Is that enough time? I think so, except we're dealing with government, which run on glacier timelines.

If you really want my opinion:

Yes, from what I've read, I believe dredging disturbs settled mercury and silt putting it into, and harming, the stream/river/delta/etc and food chain. Along with silt and mercury, there are other heavies, not to mention the disturbance of the stream bed, access points, and the noise of pumps. Do you have something that shows otherwise?

I don't have some kinda vendetta against recreational dredgers. In the grand scheme of things, it seems they're doing minimal, temporary harm that pales in insignificance to yearly storm flows or corporate america, and if they're actually collecting 98% of heavies then they're helping the ecosystem. You miners are the true green party. Thank you.

Still, I want to see that backed by testing and facts. Isn't that what a moratorium is for, fact gathering? Where's the breakdown and balance? It seems like the sierra club and others are doing it wrong, and I do not, and never have supported that. That's why I think you were setting up a gotcha, because it seemed you mistakenly already had me pegged, like mytimetoshine does.


The post about the feds and the beach was because people are saying california is not sticking up for the public interest (and I do somewhat agree with those posts!), I just showed one semi-related story about how they are, and how I wish they would stick up for our metal detecting interest on the beaches controlled by the GGNRA.

Ace detector will be Fed property soon

huh?

Get lost...Your not a gold miner and obviously are Anti...So what are you doing here? Just trying to ruffle feathers

No.

 

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[wildminer]

Just curious. What or who is a "recreational dredger"?

 

[mendoAu]

Seems to be a bunch of the same "key words" used in the above posts. I can't imagine anyone that lives in a highly populated area (re: San Francisco, etc.) to relate with someone like myself. I live 365 days a year on a 40 acre mining site in bumfudge SW Oregon (lived in Albany/El Cerrito area allot of years) and rely on the collection of valuable minerals for my needs. My "Hobby" is killing time on the internet. I could go on and on about the plight of dredging thru the last decade. And anybody that wants to go head to head has just to ask me. Be prepared to spend at the very least 100 hours to go thru all the links/science/backgrounds of several internet orgs. (re: CascadiaWildlands, FishnotGold, etc.) but at the end I've pretty much determined that it is fruitless. Anyone that wants to post in (what I feel) is in a wishywashy way is just wasting band width. A moritorium was a very good way to pursue the votes needed to jamb their anti-mining agenda thru the legislature (by the way here in Oregon was split almost entirely across party lines Republicans NO Demos Yes.) and it was done in a very interesting way. First it included ONLY ESH waterways.....and a year later they just up and added about 90% of the gold bearing waterways to the ESH (essential salmon habitat) list. How inventive!!! Fish and Game could step in and have had plenty of time to post fish counts from the past decade but lack funding, which here in Oregon we dredgers contributed to a special earmarked and designated fund of an added $150.00 per year for two years for our dredge permits,,,,this was a fund collected by the permitting agency (DEQ, Department of Environmental Quality) and by my rough estimate was over a quarter million dollars. Well, just a short time later DEQ decided to just put that earmarked account into their general funds and have done squat ever since. ( For over a year now I've been compiling a brief to be sent to the State Attorney Generals Office but it's an uphill battle to get anyone from DEQ to go on record and be taped...go figure!!) Just another bit of info....DEQ is the agency to issue the free "highbanker" permit...well they didn't do that either and when asked (after applying with all the x's and o's) you will be told it won't be in the mail but just tell any authorities that ask that you are registered and good to go....all they have to do is call a DEQ phone number that IS NEVER ANSWERED!!!
................So let me know if any of you want to go head to head in a polite debate.....otherwise just F**k OFF !

 

[mendoAu]

I'm really not crazy nor am I hostile but a little sipping gin and a bowl or two of local grown DogWalker makes me go off sometimes and makes my fingers plunk keys on my laptop...and I've found that if I duct tape pencils to my ears I can type and scratch my head at the same time ....just like this did to me last year:

https://www.thedailymeal.com/news/drink/new-oregon-bill-aims-ban-alcohol-public-beaches/040917

 

[n01d3x]

The moratorium, here in CA, has been going on since 2009, not two seasons. Plenty of time to figure it out is right. There has been a ton of evidence shown to defend dredging, if no one more knowledgeable posts I'll find some of it. There's actually dredging going on in various parts of the country with the sole purpose of creating/restoring fish habitat. There is dredging, all be it very expensive and highly ineffective, going on to remove mercury. Having said all that though, wouldn't the burden of proof be on the other side?
Oh, and the ban/moratorium thing is sort of like slang. Everyone knows there is no ban, but coming up on a decade sure makes it seem like one. Also, the moratorium didn't damage recreational dredging, it ended livelyhoods.

 

[Goldwasher]

It's another "one" guys

There's a pattern

it comes and it goes

011001101010010010001110100101010

 

[FingerChili]

Just curious. What or who is a "recreational dredger"?

I'd say someone small scale, like a hobbyist. I couldn't put a number on how many yards they would have to move to be a "professional" other than they're making their living off of it.(?) Do hobbyists even buy dredges or do they stick with slucies and highbanker type setups? I don't know the size of treasurenet users' dredging operations, I just figured it was mostly small scale hobbyists.

................So let me know if any of you want to go head to head in a polite debate.....otherwise just F**k OFF !

I'm not debating anyone, I'm asking questions and sharing my limited understanding, open to being corrected.

I'm really not crazy nor am I hostile but a little sipping gin and a bowl or two of local grown DogWalker makes me go off sometimes and makes my fingers plunk keys on my laptop...and I've found that if I duct tape pencils to my ears I can type and scratch my head at the same time ....just like this did to me last year:

https://www.thedailymeal.com/news/drink/new-oregon-bill-aims-ban-alcohol-public-beaches/040917

I understand why you'd be hostile though, sounds like oregon boned ya. Cheers.

You know how much alcohol related litter us detectorists find? Rusty bottle caps, broken glass, sharp can slaw. I don't want that on my beaches either. I come home with a bag full of it every trip. FU*K LITTERBUGS!

And thanks for the info, as I said, I'm new and open to learning. Is there a well written FAQ or article that you could point me to so you don't have to waste your time saying the same stuff you have been for 10 years? Most of what I've been finding around the net is like you said, split down party lines, and very divisive. That means I've already tuned out! Hell, a VICE article I read about Sugar Pine mine put me on your side, and they're known for being pretty liberal.


I still haven't found anything about california burning down mining cabins.

The moratorium, here in CA, has been going on since 2009, not two seasons. Plenty of time to figure it out is right. There has been a ton of evidence shown to defend dredging, if no one more knowledgeable posts I'll find some of it. There's actually dredging going on in various parts of the country with the sole purpose of creating/restoring fish habitat. There is dredging, all be it very expensive and highly ineffective, going on to remove mercury. Having said all that though, wouldn't the burden of proof be on the other side?
Oh, and the ban/moratorium thing is sort of like slang. Everyone knows there is no ban, but coming up on a decade sure makes it seem like one. Also, the moratorium didn't damage recreational dredging, it ended livelyhoods.

Ok, sorry I read that it was 2016, and from my friends that dredge, I only recently (last year or two) heard complaining that they "just put a moratorium on dredging." As a fisherman, I thought "yeah, finally, I won't have to eat poisoned fish, or lose another species to man's selfish destruction." I didn't know all the backstory. I read some of the Lake Combie thread and it's really compelling. It seems like sierra club or whoever are making a good argument (or buying off the right people) about why we should pay them $7 million to do a shitty job. I understand about livelihoods, I'll change my language.

It's another "one" guys

There's a pattern

it comes and it goes

011001101010010010001110100101010

One what? Person that came to learn and was chased off?

 

[Bodfish Mike]

FingerChili your quote " As a fisherman, I thought "yeah, finally, I won't have to eat poisoned fish, or lose another species to man's selfish destruction."

Fishermen put a lot of lead in the river (not me I'm a dry fly elitist)
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/461767-show-off-your-lead-thread.html
Dredgers-- panners-- sluicers-- highbankers and even drywashers clean the lead and mercury up to slow down man's destruction

 

[Oregon Viking]

My dad likes to say.... California is not a state...it is a strange alien nation.. ( no disrespect for you normal cali residents)
They are rubbing it in your face! Every win for the Sierra club and the enviro wackos makes them even more arrogant and causes them to trample mining rights even more! A-holes are invading Oregon too.....

 

[Assembler]

"U.S. Waters" may be the big issue.

 

[Oregon Viking]

"U.S. Waters" may be the big issue.

Survey?

 

[FingerChili]

FingerChili your quote " As a fisherman, I thought "yeah, finally, I won't have to eat poisoned fish, or lose another species to man's selfish destruction."

Fishermen put a lot of lead in the river (not me I'm a dry fly elitist)
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/461767-show-off-your-lead-thread.html
Dredgers-- panners-- sluicers-- highbankers and even drywashers clean the lead and mercury up to slow down man's destruction

I agree, and as a detectorist and a miner I take a lot of weights and bullets out of the ecosystem. I have no problem switching to nontoxic weights, and I hate losing gear. I also pick up other peoples fishing litter as I go.

My dad likes to say.... California is not a state...it is a strange alien nation.. ( no disrespect for you normal cali residents)
They are rubbing it in your face! Every win for the Sierra club and the enviro wackos makes them even more arrogant and causes them to trample mining rights even more! A-holes are invading Oregon too.....

No disrespect taken, I know california is strange. Along with every other state and country. Humans are very strange.

 

[oneguy]

"I still haven't found anything about california burning down mining cabins." (fingerchili)

Can't speak for California but I've seen the FS burn down a mining camp and also remove a hand cable car basket that spanned a river in central Idaho (Big Creek if I remember right?) 4 miles off middle fork of Salmon River.... That was about 30 yrs ago so I assume it's gotten even worse by now...........

The FS also tore down a mining cabin on a claim near my scratching area..... They are very busy slowly running everyone out of the woods one rule at a time, one more cabin removed, one more road closed, don't touch a tree root, don't move a boulder, no sluice in river, one more rule implemented and on and on, etc. etc......

 

[FingerChili]

Yup, what I've read is that the BLM and Forest Service are doing those things.

 

[Assembler]

Survey?

Yes a 'Survey' can take place under the 'Stream bed'......Thanks for asking......LOL.....this thread topic is not open for this.

 

[mendoAu]

de·bate
dəˈbāt/
noun
noun: debate; plural noun: debates

1.
a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.
synonyms: discussion, discourse, parley, dialogue; More
argument, counterargument, dispute, wrangle, war of words;
argumentation, disputation, dissension, disagreement, contention, conflict;
negotiations, talks;
informalconfab, powwow
"a debate on the reforms"
an argument about a particular subject, especially one in which many people are involved.
"the national debate on abortion"

verb
verb: debate; 3rd person present: debates; past tense: debated; past participle: debated; gerund or present participle: debating

1.
argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner.
"the board debated his proposal"
synonyms: discuss, talk over/through, talk about, thrash out, hash out, argue, dispute;

My mistake....you are not debating...what a laugh.
So I will assume that you don't want to take me up on my offer and are either to lazy to search for your answers or just want to stir up the pot. No matter, go ahead and keep posting so you show us what you are all about. You call yourself a miner (altho new) but know nothing about mining, you mention your "dredge friends" informed you of a moritorium and they didn't know how long it had been going on but implied just a couple of seasons, you don't have any reservations to condemn dredging for what you have taken or want to take as fact when in all reality you have been told that it is harmless by me and others that have "boots on the ground". Hells bells you are trying to define the size of ones dredge as a degree in which you can classify a professional from a hobbiest.
I personally run a twin engined 5 inch necked down to 4 inches which new rules established as the maximum hose size a few years ago but I know of an 8 inch in mothballs that I'd love to use on the Rogue River and the Klamath.....suck your head right into it and POOF!!! gone. Perhaps you know nothing of the many cabins burned by BLM and the FS because, ah, they aren't in flames at the moment, another POOF!!! gone. Three within five miles of me. I'd show them to you but....they are gone, so I can't prove the impossible just like nobody can PROVE dredging causes no harm. And don't be afraid to do a one hour google search of mercury contaminated fish. Tuna is at the top of the list and it goes down from there but fresh water fishes are not even on the list. Not one reported instance of death/severe harm caused by mercury from fresh water fish in the entire state of Cal.. Hype and mirrors but to put the fear into a young man I recall the old "you'll go blind if ...". Gee, I'm not blind yet!
By the way the Combie Res. project is not the doings of the SIERRA CLUB....it's the Sierra Fund (https://www.sierrafund.org/projects/combie-reservoir-project/) run by a women that knows how to hoodwink the best of them. Ask them how much mercury they have collected, big selling point for the project. Ask what percentage they retrieve with the dredge they are using.
I'll be a little patient if you return after researching elsewhere some of the points mentioned. Otherwise I'll call a spot a spot and a line a line.

 

[Reed Lukens]

I agree, and as a detectorist and a miner I take a lot of weights and bullets.

As an ex-Californian, I've never killed or seen a dead fish caused by dredging. Fishermen kill fish.... Not gold dredgers, it's the plain truth. A fisherman believing some fool telling him that dredgers kill fish seems really idiotic to me. Fishermen kill fish... Duh... In 2011 my Gold dredging business was filed as a complete loss. I'm not really trying to be rude here, but only an idiot who kills fish, would try blaming the fishes deaths on someone who doesn't kill them. The envirowaco's have sure done a number on you fishermen... They made you all look like idiots to the innocent, took your money to fight against dredgers who actually provide food for the fish... Stupid is as stupid does, and this is the envirowaco's pulling the wool over all of your eyes. The Karuk Indians use nets and take fish by the thousands, so how can we miners even compare? Doesn't it seem funny that just as California was entering it's deepest economical depression in decades back in 2008-09, just as so many people were being put out of work, and so many of them were turning to gold mining for a living, that the state ran by the envirowaco's made it illegal to gold mine? Just like in the late 60's to mid 70's, Californians have always been easily able to make a living gold mining, and have always turned back to mining in times of need. The great depression of the 30's was never felt in California's rich gold country. This time in 2009, they purposely took mining out of the picture to plunge California deeper into debt, and if you look at the big picture, it has become a state that will Not legally allow itself to ever recover... A sanctuary state that spends billions to feed illegal's, while they push the legal citizens farther into the gutter.
Then there's those idiot fishermen blaming others for their own sell-fish dirty work... Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POccSVWpcwE
And to think that around 15 years ago, the Karuk just wanted to become recognised so that they could open a casino to prostitute out our children...
California? No! State of Jefferson? Yes...

 

[FingerChili]

If you want a debate, mendo, then here:

What "opposing points" have I been "arguing"? I was telling you my limited experience and am open to learning.

If you have 10 years worth of "boots on the ground" and a year worth of work put into a brief, why not post an easily digestible summary or a link to someone else's. Why all the toxicity, you don't want allies? Maybe that's part of why your plight is failing.

Yeah, maybe my friends were mistaken, maybe I interpreted it wrong, maybe they were referring to this "New state law governing the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, otherwise known as suction dredging, is now in effect, as of January 1, 2016. (Stats. 2015, ch. 680, §§ 2-3.)" That's a talking point that n01d3x was able to correct me on without flying off the handle.

"when in all reality you have been told that it is harmless by me and others" is it harmless?
"just like nobody can PROVE dredging causes no harm" oh, debating yourself.

I'm not trying to define anything. I was sharing an opinion, open to correction.

My head is too large to fit in your dredge. "POOF!"

I was asking, in response to someone else, about the State of california burning cabins and taking property. Have they been?

You bring up salt vs freshwater, but I don't know why because it all goes downstream to the ocean, and I eat more than one type of fish. First link on google. Mercury's Silent Toll On the World's Wildlife - Yale E360

Mercury plays havoc on vertebrates’ development and their neurological and hormonal systems, and doses too low to kill can cause problems that aren’t always obvious in the wild, experts say. “Methylmercury is one of most toxic environmental pollutants we’ve ever come upon,” says Gary Heinz, a recently retired federal wildlife biologist who studied it over four decades.

It goes on...

And again "nobody can PROVE dredging causes no harm"

I'm not concerned that I said sierra club or fund or vice versa. Reed has already pointed out they're both suspect. I already read some of the lake combie thread, and have already stated that I don't support the way they are doing it.

As an ex-Californian, I've never killed or seen a dead fish caused by dredging. Fishermen kill fish.... Not gold dredgers, it's the plain truth. A fisherman believing some fool telling him that dredgers kill fish seems really idiotic to me. Fishermen kill fish... Duh... In 2011 my Gold dredging business was filed as a complete loss. I'm not really trying to be rude here, but only an idiot who kills fish, would try blaming the fishes deaths on someone who doesn't kill them. The envirowaco's have sure done a number on you fishermen... They made you all look like idiots to the innocent, took your money to fight against dredgers who actually provide food for the fish... Stupid is as stupid does, and this is the envirowaco's pulling the wool over all of your eyes. The Karuk Indians use nets and take fish by the thousands, so how can we miners even compare? Doesn't it seem funny that just as California was entering it's deepest economical depression in decades back in 2008-09, just as so many people were being put out of work, and so many of them were turning to gold mining for a living, that the state ran by the envirowaco's made it illegal to gold mine? Just like in the late 60's to mid 70's, Californians have always been easily able to make a living gold mining, and have always turned back to mining in times of need. The great depression of the 30's was never felt in California's rich gold country. This time in 2009, they purposely took mining out of the picture to plunge California deeper into debt, and if you look at the big picture, it has become a state that will Not legally allow itself to ever recover... A sanctuary state that spends billions to feed illegal's, while they push the legal citizens farther into the gutter.
Then there's those idiot fishermen blaming others for their own sell-fish dirty work... Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POccSVWpcwE
And to think that around 15 years ago, the Karuk just wanted to become recognised so that they could open a casino to prostitute out our children...
California? No! State of Jefferson? Yes...

Calling people idiots, fools, stupid, and wacos. Interesting defense. Are you also saying dredging is harmless? What about that 8" dredge that could "suck my head in POOF!"

I eat the fish I kill. You may not be able to see a fry get sucked up, and you may not be able to see the effects of mercury on the environment, but be sure that "nobody can PROVE dredging causes no harm".

Ah, yes, the "we're feeding fish" defense. Where would the fish be without humans wrecking their habitat and then hand feeding them.

"the state ran by envirowackos"
So california is the only state banning dredging? Because I thought other states were too, and the BLM and FS (federal) were the "enemies" burning down cabins. But oh no, it's the envirowackos in california.

You really think banning mining was purposely done to "plunge California deeper into debt"?

The native americans should be held to the same standards as we are. They shouldn't have a "free run" on any resources.

The native americans are prostituting out our children?


I ask again: Do you not want allies?

 

[winners58]

California Collusion;
The Big Lie
.
Research | dredge study's;
Mining Research

 

[FingerChili]

Thank you, winner.