PINTO CREEK

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

Any particular reason for being so uncertain?

Mike

About what?

Joe

 

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[Javaone]

Joe,

Any particular reason for being so uncertain?

Mike

About what?

Joe

"Shawshank Redemption" comes to mind here...

 

[cactusjumper]

 

[Cubfan64]

Joe,

Any particular reason for being so uncertain?

Mike

About what?

Joe

I think Mike was referring to this Joe...

I am less sure than Thomas that the jewelry ore came from the LDM

 

[gollum]

Joe,

Paul is correct. Sorry about that. Sometimes I just respond to posts as I read them, and forget to quote the original post.

The more I look at that picture of the Pit Mine Ore, the more familiar it looks. HHHMMMMMMMM Now I'm gonna have to dig.

Best-Mike

 

[Loke]

Wow!
I have read and seen pics from the same topic on 'that other' website - but this is awesome!!
A narrow gold-filled funnel in the middle of (otherwise) silver-deposits ... but ...
What about Jacobs "no prospector/miner will ever find my mine" ? (I must admit - like Joe - that I know sh?!$ about rocks and minerals - but surely, if its a highly mineralized area and abundant in silver - how come no-one has stumbled upon it before??

Just my 2c-worth ...

and btw - BB
You are asking for proofs (which you yourself sadly lack) - but you have ignored one _huge_ difference:
You claim to have solved it all - know where the LDM is - Joe has made no such claim. He only says he _thinks_ he knows who found it. Now if you cannot see the difference here - I'm sorry for you.

Per

 

[Loke]

Joe,

Paul is correct. Sorry about that. Sometimes I just respond to posts as I read them, and forget to quote the original post.

The more I look at that picture of the Pit Mine Ore, the more familiar it looks. HHHMMMMMMMM Now I'm gonna have to dig.

Best-Mike

*lol* Sorry Mike - I just cant help myself - but when you said you'd have to 'dig' I just collapsed here - maybe it was more picture-true than you actually intended!

 

[Cubfan64]

Per, you said...

...What about Jacobs "no prospector/miner will ever find my mine" ? (I must admit - like Joe - that I know sh?!$ about rocks and minerals - but surely, if its a highly mineralized area and abundant in silver - how come no-one has stumbled upon it before??...

Per - You've so astutely nailed the first thing that came to my mind too when presented with the theory of this pit being THE LDM. In my opinion, if this IS/WAS the LDM, the only way I can justify that statement is that it was NOT one of the things Waltz really said.

There's no other way the statement makes sense in my head although I often wonder if that statement is meant to imply that the mine cannot be discovered by panning the washes and working your way back to the source - in the case of this "pit" mine, would that be true of this place Joe?

 

[Blindbowman]

Wow!
I have read and seen pics from the same topic on 'that other' website - but this is awesome!!
A narrow gold-filled funnel in the middle of (otherwise) silver-deposits ... but ...
What about Jacobs "no prospector/miner will ever find my mine" ? (I must admit - like Joe - that I know sh?!$ about rocks and minerals - but surely, if its a highly mineralized area and abundant in silver - how come no-one has stumbled upon it before??

Just my 2c-worth ...

and btw - BB
You are asking for proofs (which you yourself sadly lack) - but you have ignored one _huge_ difference:
You claim to have solved it all - know where the LDM is - Joe has made no such claim. He only says he _thinks_ he knows who found it. Now if you cannot see the difference here - I'm sorry for you.

Per

i never once said i lack proff , i said i was waiting for the right time ..lol clearly not the saem thing ...

 

[Loke]

@Javaone,
I do apologize for my use of underscores; they are not meant to be instead of space, but I've still got it in my fingers that whatever is between two underscores will be underlined - and I always use the 'quick reply'-box and cannot for the life of me remember the 'code' for start/end underline - hence my use of underscores ...
So ... it's all because of an ole man that can't remember sh!t *lol*

 

[gollum]

Okay Joe,

Now I am starting to get the idea behind where you are going with this (I think);

Kochera=Pit Mine.

Pit Mine=LDM

For the Kochera/Pit to be the LDM, then the Jewelry Ore could not be from Waltz' Candlebox as it was close, but no cigar to the Jewelry Ore. That must be why you are so unsure about the source of the Jewelry Ore.

While interesting and provocative, it doesn't take into account many things pretty much accepted as fact regarding the DLM. Is it your contention that all the information we have that doesn't support the Pit Mine=LDM Theory is bogus? I'm not giving you grief. In order for me to get behind this with any sincerity, I need to know what the answers to those questions are.

Like I need something more concrete to doubt the source of the Jewelry Ore than a theory. Tom makes a very good case for it being from the box under Waltz' Bed.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

What is accepted as true facts about the LDM is not necessarily the truth. The fictions and lies about Waltz and his mine started almost as soon as he took his last breath. It continues to this day. Many of the new "facts/evidence" about Jacob Waltz have been made up lies, plain and simple.

I don't really know anything about this legend......beyond a doubt, but I suspect. It's unlikely that you, or anyone else can develop the same evidence that I have, because it's hard for me to imagine that two people could be that lucky twice. I was in the right place at the right time, and had the right friends.

I have given enough of a road map for others to follow to some logical conclusions, but you can never be as sure as I am, without knowing everything. This is as far as I am going with this. You are on your own.

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

More on the "Kochera" ore can be found here:

http://thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=965&view=next

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/gallery2/v/Rogers-Album/Picture_1.png.html

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149

http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/stories/Haywood Story.pdf

http://www.superstitionmountain.info/chronicles/2008/12_15_08.html

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=341304.0



Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

"There's no other way the statement makes sense in my head although I often wonder if that statement is meant to imply that the mine cannot be discovered by panning the washes and working your way back to the source - in the case of this "pit" mine, would that be true of this place Joe?"

I believe it's possible that the pit mine did not produce placer deposits in the ravines and canyon below. The mine is fairly close to the top of a ridge. If there are a few good sized traps just below the mine, they might stop any gold from going farther down the mountain.

On the other hand, the pit is in a fairly deep depression. I would think that someone who knows his....rocks, might be able to examine the area and come up with some definitive answers. I believe this is a unique type of deposit, so it's possible that all bets are off concerning normal signs.

It would seem that anyone who knows their stuff, on examining the dump, would conclude that the mine is a silver mine. I believe that to be true. I also believe that the gold in the silver sulfide matrix is an anomaly.

From what I have seen of the interior of the mine, it would be considered a shallow surface deposit. In Arizona those are often quite rich/concentrated. The perfect scenario for the LDM. The mine has been resealed, so I don't believe you will be able to go into it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Paul,

"There's no other way the statement makes sense in my head although I often wonder if that statement is meant to imply that the mine cannot be discovered by panning the washes and working your way back to the source - in the case of this "pit" mine, would that be true of this place Joe?"

I believe it's possible that the pit mine did not produce placer deposits in the ravines and canyon below. The mine is fairly close to the top of a ridge. If there are a few good sized traps just below the mine, they might stop any gold from going farther down the mountain.

On the other hand, the pit is in a fairly deep depression. I would think that someone who knows his....rocks, might be able to examine the area and come up with some definitive answers. I believe this is a unique type of deposit, so it's possible that all bets are off concerning normal signs.

It would seem that anyone who knows their stuff, on examining the dump, would conclude that the mine is a silver mine. I believe that to be true. I also believe that the gold in the silver sulfide matrix is an anomaly.

From what I have seen of the interior of the mine, it would be considered a shallow surface deposit. In Arizona those are often quite rich/concentrated. The perfect scenario for the LDM. The mine has been resealed, so I don't believe you will be able to go into it.

Take care,

Joe

I wouldn't have gone in even if it was open Joe - I was more interested in just spending some time really getting a "feel for the area" and trying to see how many of the Waltz "clues" fit the terrain, scenery, etc...

I remember sitting at the top of the ridge overlooking the area on a windy day last year (or was it 2 years ago?) and thinking it just didn't seem to fit some of the legends, but I didn't have time to go down the ridge to the actual spot. I won't be able to do it this fall either, but maybe if I can convince the wife to let me spend a week out there next spring I'll get a chance.

See you next week.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

Make up a story about the LDM and float it on the Internet for awhile. In time, I will be able to find a number of folks that will swear it's true......and that they are part of the story.

Now just consider the number of stories that have been floated here and multiply that by the rest of the world and the years since Waltz died. Talke about your needle in the haystack.

For any number of reasons, I think this will be one of your favorite memories of the Rendezvous'. I'm looking forward to it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Javaone]

@Javaone,
I do apologize for my use of underscores; they are not meant to be instead of space, but I've still got it in my fingers that whatever is between two underscores will be underlined - and I always use the 'quick reply'-box and cannot for the life of me remember the 'code' for start/end underline - hence my use of underscores ...
So ... it's all because of an ole man that can't remember sh!t *lol*

Loke,

Boy do I feel stupid…_ < No comments from the gallery please. _ Here I thought it was a cool new way of conversational forumcation.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Aside from all the other information about the Pinto Creek area, we do know that there was gold mined there for several years, right up until at least 1969.

Just this alone would, first, have an indication that there was gold there (who mines for 30 years in the same empty spot), and 2, the act of mining
the area would change the "look" of the area every single year, so what you see today is not necessarily the same thing you would see in 1891.

Beth

 

[Loke]

Aside from all the other information about the Pinto Creek area, we do know that there was gold mined there for several years, right up until at least 1969.

Just this alone would, first, have an indication that there was gold there (who mines for 30 years in the same empty spot), and 2, the act of mining
the area would change the "look" of the area every single year, so what you see today is not necessarily the same thing you would see in 1891.

Beth

*sigh* the more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know (or have forgotten - same thing) ... :-(
Beth - do you have any reference for the gold mining in that area?

 

[Blindbowman]

Aside from all the other information about the Pinto Creek area, we do know that there was gold mined there for several years, right up until at least 1969.

Just this alone would, first, have an indication that there was gold there (who mines for 30 years in the same empty spot), and 2, the act of mining
the area would change the "look" of the area every single year, so what you see today is not necessarily the same thing you would see in 1891.

Beth

thats a matter of how much Rum you drink first


lol