🥇 BANNER 1652 Massachusetts 6 Pence

The Fog

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May 24, 2009
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Hello tnetters, I don't post very often, I'm more of a sandbagger! I hunt with Brian W who has posted some of his finds here before. Today we hit an area we've had our eye on for quite some time and it didn't disappoint. An hour into the hunt Bri comes walking down a hill towards me with an incredible button.... I'll wait for him to post that if he chooses to. It was quite a nice button to say the least. Anyway I'd been digging shotgun shell after shotgun shell, flashing, lead pieces, can tops etc. With little light left in the day I found a complete colonial shoe buckle, very nice shape, my day was made, I was happy with just that. The sun was dropping behind the horizon and I was content with my buckle and an undetermined Indian head penny. Just before i was ready to leave I got a decent signal but it was reading only and inch deep, I kicked the leaves and pine needles aside to get to hard earth. I swung the area of bare dirt and the signal was gone. I checked the debris pile of leaves and pine needles... I couldn't believe my eyes when i saw the 16! This coin was barely below the surface. Unfortunately I have some light scratches on it from brushing the leaves and pine needles away. I have no idea what variety it is or if it's a counterfeit. Brian told me to post it here and Iron Patch would be the guy to ID it. Anyway, we had a great day and it was amazing to find this coin.
 

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Upvote 43

hogge

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There are several things I DO NOT like about what I see. 1st.....The "1" in the date has a top, left point to it. Never seen a Mass. Silver with a "1" like that. Almost looks modern. The first "D" overlaps the straight edge, and some of the letters appear thicker than they should be. Even with wear, I don't think they would flatten out like that. Certain things aren't matching up with a "legit" Mass. Silver. I hope it's real, but I have serious doubts with this one. I would have to see the 17.1, but It's DEFINITELY NOT a 17. Even the "VI" is just totally different.
 

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Breezie

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Oct 3, 2009
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OMGoodness! Outstanding find! Congratulations on finding and making the BANNER! Way to go!!!:thumbsup: Breezie
 

detroitdigger

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Super cool find!!!!!!
 

screwynewy

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There are several things I DO NOT like about what I see. 1st.....The "1" in the date has a top, left point to it. Never seen a Mass. Silver with a "1" like that. Almost looks modern. The first "D" overlaps the straight edge, and some of the letters appear thicker than they should be. Even with wear, I don't think they would flatten out like that. Certain things aren't matching up with a "legit" Mass. Silver. I hope it's real, but I have serious doubts with this one. I would have to see the 17.1, but It's DEFINITELY NOT a 17. Even the "VI" is just totally different.

I'm surprised no one commented before about these differences. I'm definitely not qualified to say whether it is real or not but it is definitely not the same die as the coins that it is being compared to. Maybe there is a die that nobody knows about. I sure hope it turns out to be real.
 

ReidMan

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Jul 16, 2008
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Doesn't get much better.
 

pepperj

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Feb 3, 2009
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Congrats on the find, hoping that it will be a variety that is rare.:occasion14:
 

GioTheGreek

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Congrats on the banner. You will hunt that site yearly, for the rest of your life! :notworthy:8-):occasion14::hello2:
 

Tnmountains

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Wow! these members are great and figuring everything out especially an item so rare as this. Congratulations on a fantastic find.
 

CMDiamonddawg

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Oct 14, 2009
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Sandbagger since 2009 , :icon_scratch: that is long time not to find anything to post up a thread :dontknow:
 

Iron Patch

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I'm surprised no one commented before about these differences. I'm definitely not qualified to say whether it is real or not but it is definitely not the same die as the coins that it is being compared to. Maybe there is a die that nobody knows about. I sure hope it turns out to be real.



Maybe you should read the thread! :laughing7: Not only did we talk about it, and even post pictures, it's part of the main question about it being 17.1. When you do read the thread you will see a big part of the history of Noe 17 was a die clash. This damaged the die and the coins never came out the same again and it seems quite apparent how things might have changed when you see the two 17 types I posted. The big question is at the time of the die clash were they repaired and altered in such away to change the detail slightly to show the slight differences we see on the 17s today, as compared to the dug coin if it is 17.1 and was originally how it should have looked before the die clash. At this point who knows... could be ctft, could be a new variety, but because the detail is so close, and the variety has the die clash history, what makes the most sense to me by process of elimination is it's 17.1. It sure would be great to see a picture of it because you could likely say yes or no in a few seconds given the slight changes that we all agree are there. The coin has been posted in front of people who do have the reference material to most likely get to the bottom of it, but they are just not close to that reference material! Never the less, someone will ID it soon, probably today I would think, so we should find out the answer. Whatever it is, it seems like a period coin so will be a winner no matter what. Not near as many OT sixpences around as I thought before this thread got posted and I started reading about them.
 

l.cutler

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Dec 2, 2006
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Fascinating thread. I feel there are too many similarities for it not to have come from the same dies, just a different state. Either from the original undamaged dies before the clash or I wonder, from a later state with recutting to repair the clashing. It will be interesting to follow to it's conclusion.
 

Iron Patch

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Fascinating thread. I feel there are too many similarities for it not to have come from the same dies, just a different state. Either from the original undamaged dies before the clash or I wonder, from a later state with recutting to repair the clashing. It will be interesting to follow to it's conclusion.


Apparently there's a good book with the various die states so just a matter of finding someone who has it. That might happen today as one person told Don he might be at the location of his reference material today.
 

hogge

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I've been watching the postings that some of the C-4 guys that have commented on this coin. The latest, and not definitive as of yet, indicates that it could be a Noe-17 Crosby 4c......"likely a contemporary counterfeit".
 

Iron Patch

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I've been watching the postings that some of the C-4 guys that have commented on this coin. The latest, and not definitive as of yet, indicates that it could be a Noe-17 Crosby 4c......"likely a contemporary counterfeit".


But how can it be Noe 17 and a contemporary counterfeit? It's not cast, and someone would be done pretty good to hand cut a die that close. It sounds like they aren't doing much more than we are on here because the answers don't sound real certain.
 

Don in SJ

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May 20, 2005
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Latest info I have is it is NOT a Noe 17, but I was not told what it is yet, since the individual wants to get confirmation. That sounds like either very good news or very bad, I go with very good. I will not be able to see when he posts what it is (Dr appt) so someone else will probably see the post before I can report so if they say it is from C4, than it most likely will be legit.... So, standby :)
Don
 

hogge

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Just saw on the C-4 site. Waiting on definitive confirmation, but it appears to be the VERY RARE NOE-17.5....(Dies Re-worked) The 17...17.1...and 17.5, all come from the same dies.
 

Iron Patch

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Just saw on the C-4 site. Waiting on definitive confirmation, but it appears to be the VERY RARE NOE-17.5....(Dies Re-worked) The 17...17.1...and 17.5, all come from the same dies.



And what was that you said about hearing something first in your private message to me? :laughing7:

Hope it is 17.5, but one should never get too excited until it has overwhelming confirmation. But this sure isn't bad news to hear.
 

CoilyGirl

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Quality over quantity I always say.Nice find.
 

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