🥇 BANNER *****1806 Heraldic eagle wohooo!!!******

[lisfisher]

I had one hour to hunt after work today before dark, had nowhere to go but the same place I've been beating up for the past 4 years. The safari screamed silver with a good solid 38 hit. 4 inches down was this beautiful lady staring me in the face!!

 

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[Lanny in AB]

Sweet find! That certainly is a beautiful coin.

Nicely done.

All the best,

Lanny

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting-gold/69-bedrock-gold-mysteries.html

 

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[huntsman53]

Even I have 100% positive feedback on "wacky" EBAY. That means nothing. If you're as "sharp" as you say you are, then why didn't you ID the variety Or don't you know about that stuff? So how is it you failed to mention the qualifiers to the poster? Which should "discount" the value of ANY grade by half? Just goes to show you're not smart enough to admit when you're wrong. I read your profile. Seems like you're a pretty decent guy. We all have differences of opinion here at times, and I'm NOT afraid to admit when I get proven wrong. So lets just see what an objective 3rd party has to say. ALRIGHT?

Just so that you will know, I know some about early American and U.S. Colonial Coinage Varieties but don't delve in them too much! Also, I do not have the reference Books for these, as my main interest is in Varieties of the Flying Eagle, Indian Head and Lincoln Cents...Shield, Liberty "V", Buffalo and some Jefferson Nickels...Seated Liberty, Barber and Mercury Dimes...Seated Liberty, Barber, Standing Liberty and Washington Quarters...Seated Liberty, Barber, Walking Liberty and Franklin Half Dollars & Peace and Morgan Silver Dollars. If an older coin is a Variety that I have seen before or know where to locate the reference, I will sometimes try to identify and attribute it but I generally decline from doing so for most of these again because I do not have the reference Books and the Internet is often unreliable.

When you say that I failed to mention qualifiers, do you mean the scratches, environmental damage and unknown black marks? If so, these are not called Qualifiers when it comes to grading coins. These are considered Problematic Surface Conditions that can deter from obtaining an actual numerical grade. I highlighted on these in another Post by the O.P. concerning grading. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/coins/407437-coin-grading.html

Lastly, in most cases I will admit that I am wrong but when I am personally attacked, I will often refuse to respond to keep from fueling the fire. I could be wrong in the case of the O.P.'s coin as I am not perfect and I make mistakes just like anyone else but until the time I am proven wrong in this case, I will decline! Continued argument will not this achieve. However, having the coin sold uncertified and ungraded, then again sold certified and graded will or will not make the case.


Frank

 

[hogge]

You can take up the "qualifiers" phrase up with Ron Guth from PCGS, because that's what they call them. I prefer "Disqualifiers" because they detract value from the final grade of the coin. FYI.....Those "unknown" black marks, as you call them, are what happens to 90% silver when it's been in the ground for a long time. Can't believe ya didn't know that. Are you REALLY who you say you are....or just some Monday morning QB?? Noticed in your avatar you have a lot of metal detectors. Do you collect them or actually put them to use? Just asking because I see you've never posted any finds. ;-)

 

[burlbark]

I actually liked what you said in the previous posting. (Believe it or not). But you're forgetting about the "qualifiers" that will knock the value of the coin WAY down. 1.- "Environmental Damage" 2. Scratched 3. Damaged. ALL 3 of these will appear on the "Label" when he gets the coin back. There's another saying too......."A fool and his money are soon parted" POSTER................Take the coin to a "reputable" coin dealer and ask him what you can get for it.....GRADED and UNGRADED. THEN tell us how you made out. That will quell this whole little "*****fest"

This is the unfortunate truth. However it should not detract from this being a fantastic find. Anyone of us would be thrilled to find it and it may be the find of a lifetime for 99% of us.

It really has enough wear, distracting dark scratches, and spotting that truly detract from eye appeal, that argues a case for lemon juice and aluminum foil.

If done in stages and done slowly it will leave a tarnish but will remove the silver oxides from the surface. The scratches will appear lighter and the Liberty will become more defined.

I have done dozens of coins. Here is an example of one where I left a little oxide but brought out the detail that was hidden under a layer. I may go farther with this coin to remove the spotting but have not decided as it is not located over features that the eye is drawn to. Liberty even came out partially and remained sharp.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Very nice find, you'll spend the next few years trying to top that one!
Congrats on making the BANNER too!

Dave

 

[huntsman53]

You can take up the "qualifiers" phrase up with Ron Guth from PCGS, because that's what they call them. I prefer "Disqualifiers" because they detract value from the final grade of the coin. FYI.....Those "unknown" black marks, as you call them, are what happens to 90% silver when it's been in the ground for a long time. Can't believe ya didn't know that. Are you REALLY who you say you are....or just some Monday morning QB?? Noticed in your avatar you have a lot of metal detectors. Do you collect them or actually put them to use? Just asking because I see you've never posted any finds. ;-)

It seems that many folks in and out of the Grading Services market use the word term of "Qualifier" for many different aspects of grading coins but while some do, the consensus or majority do not use the term to describe scratches, gouges, dings, nicks, improper cleaning, environmental damage, etc., etc.... Qualifier is term normally used for PL, DMPL, Mirrorlike, Frosted, Red, Red/Brown, Brown, FS (Full Steps), FB (Full Bands), etc., etc.... De-Qualifier is a good word for it but I like Detractors!



By the way, I was referring to the black scratch-like marks all over Miss Liberty's head and Northeast and East of her' head in the fields! And yes, I know what the greyish/copperish/brownish splotches are on the coin as I have dug many Silver coins. Also, I collect metal detectors but I also use them for Gold prospecting/Nugget shooting and to find heavy deposits of Black Sand. I used to metal detect 3 to 4 times a week and 2 to 4 hours each day when I lived in Florida but since that time, good places to MD are a lot less where I have lived and now live, family and my' business obligations limit my time and my priorities or should I say, my interests have changed. I don't post finds as most of my finds were made well before I found TNnet and became a member here and most of those were sold off long ago to purchase more metal detectors, to support my hobby and to help with raising 3 daughters and now, pretty much raising 5 grandchildren (their needs outweigh the needs of the one or the few!).


Frank

 

[DirtDodger]

Terrific find... This is very deserving of banner. I would be one very happy camper for sure... do not see many of them dug up. I'm with envy !

CONGRADS!!!!

I been following the posts and as to slap or not to slap, and grade vg 6-8, f 15 and so on... and wasn't going to anything, but I felt compelled to...

As a long time collector of early silver, I can tell you this, you will never get everyone to agree on the grade, the best a coin can do is get a consensus.
I disagree with many grades the slap companies give, and some are better than other like all industries.
This coin does have some issues in important areas of the coin that would cause many of collectors to grade it lower.
Lower grade coins generally are not slapped as often as the higher grades. It usually unnecessary.
The coin buyer can readily see the condition, they don't need a third party to them about the issues.

One last thing, cleaning .... I have seen some say clean with this or that .... they had great success.... I say only in their eyes... not the vast majority of collectors.
As with grading not everyone will agree, but the NUMBER ONE rule is not to clean. Check the ANA website don't take anyone's word for it.
I will also note no matter what solution, lemon juice, peroxide, etc... they all are acid base and eat at the surface, Period. This is a fact of science.
Anything that does this is never good for a coin. So the easiest way to damage a coin is do that.
However there are methods that can be used to remove surface debris and tarnish that does not use chemicals or involve rubbing or brushing the surface.

 

[lisfisher]

Those dark patches on the coin look like regular silver tarnish to me, but I'm no expert. I did look at those spots under a 10x loupe and there is no corrosive activity going on, so I'm going to assume it's tarnish or oxidation maybe, but I'm not touching it, I learned my lesson long ago with cleaning coins lol when I fried the detail right off a 2 cent piece in an electrictrolysis bath.

 

[flatbutton]

Congrats on the banner!

 

[relicminer]

Beautiful! Tickled to death for ya!!!!

 

[burlbark]

Terrific find... This is very deserving of banner. I would be one very happy camper for sure... do not see many of them dug up. I'm with envy !

CONGRADS!!!!


One last thing, cleaning .... I have seen some say clean with this or that .... they had great success.... I say only in their eyes... not the vast majority of collectors.
As with grading not everyone will agree, but the NUMBER ONE rule is not to clean. Check the ANA website don't take anyone's word for it.
I will also note no matter what solution, lemon juice, peroxide, etc... they all are acid base and eat at the surface, Period. This is a fact of science.
Anything that does this is never good for a coin. So the easiest way to damage a coin is do that.
However there are methods that can be used to remove surface debris and tarnish that does not use chemicals or involve rubbing or brushing the surface.

When you have a coin of relatively little value and many that are in a higher state of preservation the best thing you can do is to make it have eye appeal.

This does not mean cleaning with a wire brush. If you look at any of the major coin houses they have cleaning options available.

They often use a mild acid to lift the years of oxidation, they will not call their process "cleaned" or "cleaned improperly" the worst they will do is call it environmental damage.

Without preserving and removing this layer of silver oxide the coin will only continue to corrode unless there is environmental controls in place.

There are most definitely times to clean and preserve a coin and dont ever rub the coin. I think this goes without saying.

There is no way to clean silver oxide without using a chemical of some sort. Unless of course you want to destroy detail. Lemon juice combined with aluminum is the safest method available to most. My ultrasonic cleaner will not remove silver oxide.

Cleaning and preserving a coin is not for the novice coin collector, it takes practice and failure to understand how to do it properly.

 

[hogge]

It seems that many folks in and out of the Grading Services market use the word term of "Qualifier" for many different aspects of grading coins but while some do, the consensus or majority do not use the term to describe scratches, gouges, dings, nicks, improper cleaning, environmental damage, etc., etc.... Qualifier is term normally used for PL, DMPL, Mirrorlike, Frosted, Red, Red/Brown, Brown, FS (Full Steps), FB (Full Bands), etc., etc.... De-Qualifier is a good word for it but I like Detractors!



By the way, I was referring to the black scratch-like marks all over Miss Liberty's head and Northeast and East of her' head in the fields! And yes, I know what the greyish/copperish/brownish splotches are on the coin as I have dug many Silver coins. Also, I collect metal detectors but I also use them for Gold prospecting/Nugget shooting and to find heavy deposits of Black Sand. I used to metal detect 3 to 4 times a week and 2 to 4 hours each day when I lived in Florida but since that time, good places to MD are a lot less where I have lived and now live, family and my' business obligations limit my time and my priorities or should I say, my interests have changed. I don't post finds as most of my finds were made well before I found TNnet and became a member here and most of those were sold off long ago to purchase more metal detectors, to support my hobby and to help with raising 3 daughters and now, pretty much raising 5 grandchildren (their needs outweigh the needs of the one or the few!).


Frank

Frank.......You and I are actually very much alike. Looks like you do your research. I also have 3 daughters, but mine are 9, 12, and 17. It's killin' me! I too haven't had much time, as in years past, to detect. I own my own business and that keeps me hoppin'. But it looks like I'll have more time this spring. You should find the time to get out more, as I see many guys from Tenn. find some great stuff. Life is ALL about the kids, and I also have a granddaughter. She brings me great joy! I hope yours do too. I'll talk to ya...... Sincerely Todd (Hogge)

 

[wvplug]

Excellent!!

 

[Bubba65]

I must throw my 2 cents in to the ring on this one. First of like said before a coins grade will be different from person to the next. That is the key people grade coins which we all now involves human error. I have seen many coins that were graded to high and have seen many coins that were not graded high enough. A key with most coins that we dig up, is that the person buying one of our coins can see and touch the coin to see what he or she is getting.

Second about this coin cleaning issue that always comes up. People we are digging up our coins from the ground and they didn't come from Grandma's underwear draw. So I been detecting going on thirty years and I want to tell you every coin that I have dug whether it is a "Stinking Lincoln" to a very early 1700's colonial coin has to be cleaned in some way. So please keep the "cleaning" issue for the coins that come out of Grandma's underwear draw and not on dug coins. Also I have coins I have not cleaned and I have many that I have cleaned it is all up to the individual that owns them.

 

[DirtDodger]

I must throw my 2 cents in to the ring on this one. First of like said before a coins grade will be different from person to the next. That is the key people grade coins which we all now involves human error. I have seen many coins that were graded to high and have seen many coins that were not graded high enough. A key with most coins that we dig up, is that the person buying one of our coins can see and touch the coin to see what he or she is getting.

Second about this coin cleaning issue that always comes up. People we are digging up our coins from the ground and they didn't come from Grandma's underwear draw. So I been detecting going on thirty years and I want to tell you every coin that I have dug whether it is a "Stinking Lincoln" to a very early 1700's colonial coin has to be cleaned in some way. So please keep the "cleaning" issue for the coins that come out of Grandma's underwear draw and not on dug coins. Also I have coins I have not cleaned and I have many that I have cleaned it is all up to the individual that owns them.

As I said, you will never get everyone to agree. It is also said 'You cant fix stupid'. I also take issue with your assumption that every dug coin needs cleaned(rinsing the dirt off is not cleaning). Not every coin needs to look new and shiny and tarnish free. Hell I am only one forth the age of the coin and I can tell you I am no longer shiny or new.... I look my age and I've been detecting for over forty years and collecting longer than that. 200 year old plus coins are generally going to look their age. This lady has seen some life, she was not in 'grandma's underwear draw', she is still pretty. After rinsing after the dirt, what more needs done? you can see all the details. That is all that is required. Why does it need to be tarnish free and shiny?

The cleaning and not clean issue has been going on and discussed as has with 'it up to the individual' argument'... as well as 'I've cleaned' coins' argument as well as the dug and non-dug coin agreement.
I've yet seen anyone say you cant do with you finds as you choose, they only are offering the best advice as to preserve them.
It is not like someone like me or the others has something to gain by you cleaning or not cleaning the coins you dig up. I gain nothing whether you do or not.
They offer only the best current information by the leading experts in the field of numismatics only in the hope someone doesn't damage a coin.
There maybe people like you who feel that 'cleaning' somehow is okay. That is your right, however the vest majority in numismatics field don't feel that way.

 

[Bubba65]

As I said, you will never get everyone to agree. It is also said 'You cant fix stupid'. I also take issue with your assumption that every dug coin needs cleaned(rinsing the dirt off is not cleaning). Not every coin needs to look new and shiny and tarnish free. Hell I am only one forth the age of the coin and I can tell you I am no longer shiny or new.... I look my age and I've been detecting for over forty years and collecting longer than that. 200 year old plus coins are generally going to look their age. This lady has seen some life, she was not in 'grandma's underwear draw', she is still pretty. After rinsing after the dirt, what more needs done? you can see all the details. That is all that is required. Why does it need to be tarnish free and shiny?

The cleaning and not clean issue has been going on and discussed as has with 'it up to the individual' argument'... as well as 'I've cleaned' coins' argument as well as the dug and non-dug coin agreement.
I've yet seen anyone say you cant do with you finds as you choose, they only are offering the best advice as to preserve them.
It is not like someone like me or the others has something to gain by you cleaning or not cleaning the coins you dig up. I gain nothing whether you do or not.
They offer only the best current information by the leading experts in the field of numismatics only in the hope someone doesn't damage a coin.
There maybe people like you who feel that 'cleaning' somehow is okay. That is your right, however the vest majority in numismatics field don't feel that way.

Sorry no one is ever going to agree, but rinsing the dirt off is cleaning. What do you think you do when you take a shower, the same thing applies here. A fact is a fact and you can take that until the "Cows Come Home". Lets get something straight what many of the people who say don't clean are talking about is taking a coin an stripping it of its patina, that is a big "No No" and I have seen some examples of it done on this forum. But I have also seen many coins that have been cleaned properly that have had there values increased, just ask Hogge, Iron Patch etc. I have also had many of my Own coins values enhanced this way and yes I too have some Rare Colonials in my collection. So to me each coin is a case by case decision and to clean or not clean is up to the "OWNER". I just take offense to the "phrase never clean a coin", like I said they are talking about the coins from Grandma's dresser and not the coins that come out of Mother Earth, that is like comparing "Apples to Oranges" and it will always be that way. Have a Great Day.

 

[hogge]

Guys...........Whenever I get involved in a thread like this, I already know what's going to happen, even before I post it. This debate has been going on in here for years. Nothin' personal. We all have our opinions on what should, and shouldn't, be done with another persons find, especially coins. As we ready ourselves for the upcoming spring there will be more of this. I, personally, like to help out when I can, but also like to "tweek" people a little. Sort of like a "side hobby" of mine. Once again....nothing personal. Just like to plant the seed and watch it grow. (As some other members do). Lisfisher has a great find here. I think he has enough info on it to decide what he wants to do. I know what I would do with it. SELL.... and add it to my list in my signature! Good Luck to all with "our" little debate

 

[huntsman53]

Guys...........Whenever I get involved in a thread like this, I already know what's going to happen, even before I post it. This debate has been going on in here for years. Nothin' personal. We all have our opinions on what should, and shouldn't, be done with another persons find, especially coins. As we ready ourselves for the upcoming spring there will be more of this. I, personally, like to help out when I can, but also like to "tweek" people a little. Sort of like a "side hobby" of mine. Once again....nothing personal. Just like to plant the seed and watch it grow. (As some other members do). Lisfisher has a great find here. I think he has enough info on it to decide what he wants to do. I know what I would do with it. SELL.... and add it to my list in my signature! Good Luck to all with "our" little debate

Todd,

Very well stated! We can and should only give advice and make recommendations as to what an O.P. should do with their' coin no matter where it was found or obtained. The rest is up to them and we all should respect that. While recognizing and understanding when the conservation and preservation of a coin will or will not benefit the coin and it's owner is important, it is more important to respect the O.P. and their find and to not belittle them or it.


Frank

 

[swamp yankee]

What a GREAT SCORE and in pretty good shape too. Send it in to be "graded" without cleaning it please! This is a big dollar piece you have here.Remember you don't HAVE to sell it but each year there are less/less of them at auction.BIG CONGRATS! And best of luck during the season HH....

 

[JohnnyMac]

Beauty...congrats