Advanced Treasure Marks and Symbols 110

[poorfarm]

news flash a friend of mine his brotherinlaw found a metal vest worn by the spanish next to a stream will try to get a pic from him

 

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[poorfarm]

well no pic he found it s of tuscon az and turned it over to historical society someone close should check area

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

I found a map. It matched the terrain in every way except one. I went to the place that was falsely represented by the map.

Maps are good, especially if they're genuine. They often remove opinion and speculation from the mix. Good work.

Thanks. I will be back that way later in the summer. IF, and that's a IF, things go my way, I will post the map. I'm not counting my chickens.

 

[hadji009]

is the snake eye anything special?

 

[Pala Y Pico]

I see two dogs looking in opposite directions. Or two hearts.
The large heart with left lobe pointing at other heart.

The compass turtle, I first saw as a shoe pointer with siluethe "W" for distance.

Would my interpretation have take me to the next sign or to the mine?

THANKS

 

[rangler]

Senor,,
The compass rock takes priority over all the marks when you are trying to decode this monument...it only looks like a shoe in the close up, the long shot shows the turtle...perhaps it was meant to look like that , I dont know but I dont think so..too trivial to make that much work..remember this rock is 8 f eet thick and 20 feet plus long.

This monument is from the early days of the Contract with the King of Spain...bodacious and in your face...compare with the later monuments, and you can see how they scaled them down very dramatically... the indians gaze confirms the compass rock...that cardinal direction leads to the next marker. only the heart actually hints at what is at the next sign...the snake is looking opposite the direction of travel, in this case, other cases the snake shows the direction.

note: this monument is about the size of the Sphinx of egypt fame.? Do we really have a ancient monument here, that is not early jesuit or late ancient made? Always more questions than answers, but what else is new? to get the exact compass bearing we climbed on top of the turtle/compass rock and took the bearing...always use caution and good judgement when climbing rocks of this size, dont exceed your ability or equipment.
we used ropes, removable 'chucks' and took only pictures and compass bearings.
We noticed it was a excellent vantage point and we could see anyone coming for a long way away..on the three trails...
rangler



(c)copyright 2003 - 11 all right reserved - rangler

 

[rangler]

senor,
the direction is not pointed out with a 'W' they used compass degree numbers, everytime, I have found an Alpha...in the second Alpha, one of the things to look for is the 3 digit compass heading as below....

(c)copyright 2003- all rights reserved - rangler
rangler

 

[Springfield]

senor,
the direction is not pointed out with a 'W' they used compass degree numbers, everytime, I have found an Alpha...in the second Alpha, one of the things to look for is the 3 digit compass heading as below....

I agree that some 3-digit rock carvings (or coded references to same) may well be azimuth angles.

I use a Brunton pocket transit in the field. It's a precision-made mountaineering tool generally considered to be reliably accurate to 1 degree if carefully levelled. If I wanted to carry a land surveyor's theodolite or transit on a tripod, I could do much better. 'Accurate' theodolites became available ca 1800. Just how accurate these early ones were is debatable.

My understanding of available field equipment in your assumed time frame ('Jesuits in the southwest', if I'm not mistaken) is that the best portable compasses could only provide a true bearing to +/- 2 or 3 degrees left or right. A better alternative would have been to use a large ship's compass, which was more accurate but required being mounted in a stable box with a glass lid and leveled in the field before each use (very cumbersome, especially in tough terrain), or attached to something similar to a swiveled ship's binnacle (even worse). How accurate are you claiming the 3-digit azimuth codes are - assuming they were created by the 'Jesuits'? Of course, if the codes are azimuths and they were created in more modern times by people with much better equipment, your argument is much, much stronger.

Another question. What if the azimuths were intentionally offset by a certain number of degrees from a true north azimuth system (for further security against the curious)?

 

[dsty]

Don't know if this will work or not, if not I will delete. shows the lamb head after it was knocked off and suported for photo

 

[dsty]

here is the head as it was carved. Can someone make it bigger, thanks

 

[oddrock]

rangler, Sir

Just curious, are you going to keep us posted on this web-site as per the sign-up for the trip of discovery etc. .. .

Oddrock

 

[Twisted Fork]

greetings argonauts and true trackers
The time has come, a sort of crossroads has been reached with graffiti markers and the cloud readers...we must separate them from the confusion they create. So therefore they are NOT welcome to post on this thread.Period. This does not include newbies...they are of course welcome to post anything they find, post to see if it is real or graffiti, so they can learn, these two others have shown they will not learn, so we must leave them behind,.fair warning was given, but when they continue to post graffiti and clouds readings, then now they are confusing people on purpose, and that will not be tolerated here any longer.
via con dios
rangler
The reason we must separate is not only the confusion but the waste of time and resources
We also want to create and invite the most interested of you members here to participate in a field trip to the Superstition Mountains of Arizona, near Apache Junction,
we you will learn in just a few days what it can take years to learn online.
Also after the field trip, the next outing - we will attend an actual dig site, where we will take an Alpha Monument, find the Omega, solve the final layout and retrieve the goods...

The owner of the site will get the goodies, but we will share the treasure of knowledge, unless you volunteer the site that is...but that is not necessary as I have plenty of my own sites to dig...
At the end of those two events, my book will be ready to be published, and any one who sends in a pic of a monument or even a good sign, that is selected to be published, will received a signed copy gratis...[a note for the negative ones], I am not fishing or trying to get info on your site...so back off that crap right now...after all I have marked for free, hundreds of monuments pics all ready on these sites for anyone who asked...

So the course is clear, the goal is reachable, we just need to move on.
To get you started on the Advanced class this pic is from the Supers., it is my own copyrighted pic. not to be confused with others who photographed this monument,


2003 (c) copyrighted - all rights reserved - rangler


Here's your assignment - to decode the monument,

1.what type of monument is it?
2.is it a Janus monument as well?
3.what is the Indian Face trying to tell you?
4.what are the classic iconic signs displayed here
5.what cardinal direction is it pointing
6.what does it mean
7.can you find distance and direction?
8.what time frame is it from
9.what will be he next sign
10.can you legally take any goodies out of the supers?

there ya go, easy if you know your stuff, easy to look up if you dont,
you need 80% to solve the puzzle and to pass the test.
have fun,
rangler



(c)copyright 2003-all rights reserved- rangler
this is the long shot, taken with a sony digital5megapixel

Based on what I have seen other places, I would say that your first monument reads as...

"Branch off Here...New Heading"

Massive Lodes are refereed to as a beast; a hard rock miner might tell one that out of the darkness they come killing like the dragon. Steam, Fire and the Crushing Grip of a ceiling collapse. Violent and dangerous at a whim. Capable of sudden death. Gorilla Heads are in reference to a king of the beasts ahead of you or the richest of lodes running deep into the earth. Right turn Clyde?

 

[rangler]

springfield,
good question...
"What if the azimuths were intentionally offset by a certain number of degrees from a true north azimuth system (for further security against the curious)?"

truth is - they or at least one group - I followed...mismarked their headings by a certain favorite number of one the order...you had to know this number and if it was negative or positive in nature...without this or some tremendous luck, the cache is hidden forever..
[note: I know that you never ask a question that you dont all ready know the answer to..so
thanks for the confirmation.]
rangler

 

[rangler]

twisted,
"Based on what I have seen other places, I would say that your first monument reads as...

"Branch off Here...New Heading"

Massive Lodes are refereed to as a beast; a hard rock miner might tell one that out of the darkness they come killing like the dragon. Steam, Fire and the Crushing Grip of a ceiling collapse. Violent and dangerous at a whim. Capable of sudden death. Gorilla Heads are in reference to a king of the beasts ahead of you or the richest of lodes running deep into the earth. Right turn Clyde?"

thanks for the input, the info about the gorilla was a long standing supposition for me-as I have found a gorilla head about 80 feet high!
regarding the monument, it is indeed a right turn, to an auxiliary trail , while the Janus marker continues as a false trail to a worked out mine. Other omegas placed along the myriad of trails...some decoy, some real, some gone, some still in place.All locked up forever in the Superstition Wilderness area, however, the one thing we can take away from here....is knowledge, which I value as greater than gold or silver.
thats why this place is THE place to get your advanced degree in THing
rangler


(c)copyright 2005-all rights reserved - rangler

 

[rangler]

True Trackers and Argonauts ...

There could be no advanced thread without a treasure map and Stilldigns knowledge...
here is a repost from my 101 thread, where dign lays out the steps of working with the alpha and a map.....

this post goes back to August 2004...

Treasure signs and survey lines

Most of you have heard me say before that the number one reason for a persons failure to locate a treasure or mine is due to the lack of truthful information.
There are many, many books on the subject of treasure signs and symbols, and some authors have been pretty creative in their "solutions" to these treasure markers. And it is one of these "creative solutions" that makes me write this post, hoping to set the record straight before anyone tries to apply this solution to their own treasure site.

The "solution" that I will be discussing has to do with survey lines, or, as the book puts it, "treasure grids."
It is very true that surveying was an essential part in the making of a treasure map. Whether we are talking about a Church map, KGC map, pirate map, etc., surveying was needed to help ensure that the treasure/mine could be relocated.

You should also understand that this act of surveying at a treasure site was "backed up" with treasure signs and symbols. These signs and symbols are just as important as the survey lines, since it was through these signs that you would be able to confirm that you were, indeed, on the correct path to the treasure. The reason for this "confirmation" process is simple, there are several "false trails" on EVERY treasure map, and if you were to follow one of these false trails, then you would need to know what you did wrong as well as how to correct your mistake and get back on the right track.

Anyway, in this book, which shall remain nameless, the author states that a treasure grid was needed in order to find the treasures that are found by following a "certain" map. This grid was created by surveying line after line after line, until you ended up with a grid that resembles a tic-tac-toe game design. The treasure was supposed to be in the center square of this tic-tac-toe design.

The reason that the author went into this survey design is because he has a Jesse James treasure map that tells you that you must do this in order to find the treasure. The only problem is, the part of the map that tells you to do all of this surveying is, without a doubt, a false trail. It is a trail designed to take you off into nowhere land, and there you will be lost, or, at least you will be far away from the treasure.

Now, as I said, surveying IS a very vital part in the CREATION of a treasure map, and, here is how it works. When making a treasure map, there IS ALWAYS a beginning point given on the map. This beginning (alpha point) is nowhere near the treasures location (the omega point, the treasures location). So, what happens is that you need to know where to go from the alpha, which includes the distances and directions needed for each step of the way.

Getting to this alpha point is not complicated, you simply make your way to this point in whatever way that you can.

From here on out is where you want to pay particular attention because EVERY instruction given on the treasure map from here on out is given in COMPASS DEGREES and EXACT MEASUREMENTS. And folks, this is exactly how surveying pertains to treasure maps. The surveying, in other words, was DONE ONLY ONCE, and that was at the creation of the treasure map that you are holding in your hands. After the creation of the map, every instruction needed to relocate the treasure room or mine was set forth in compass degrees and exact measurements, and there is not one bit of surveying needed in order to relocate a treasure room or mine.

Now, back at the alpha. As I said, this first instruction from the alpha is ALWAYS quite a distance away. Sometimes it's several hundred feet, sometimes it's a mile or two or three or four, etc, etc, etc,. My point is this, you really don't want to try to measure this first distance given. You can if you want, but I guarantee you, it's a waste of time. All you need to do is this, MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE CORRECT COMPASS DEGREE as well as some idea of the distance. Then just start walking in the compass direction given. When you have gone the proper distance, you will find a SIGN OR A SYMBOL, maybe even a large boulder monument, either way a sign will be found that tells you that you are to stop at this point (at that sign or symbol), and that FROM THIS POINT YOU MAKE ANOTHER CHANGE IN DIRECTION, which means that you will also be given another distance to travel.

You will find that when you leave the alpha and get to your next point, your distances will decrease immensely. You may find that from this second point, your next distance to go may be 30 feet or less, and this is when your going to need to start using your tape measure.

I have stated many, many times that once you get the feel for this treasure "hiding and locating" system used by the "family", you won't have a need for paper maps. Just think about it for a moment. When following the instructions on the map, you will, AT EVERY POINT where there is a change in direction and distance, find a boulder or some kind of PERMANENT object that will have signs and symbols on it helping you out.

By getting the knowledge and the feel for these maps, you will be able to spot these "helpers" even though you're just out camping or hiking. And that, my friends, is why I say that you don't have to have a map to locate ANY treasure, just ability. As long as the treasure or mine has been monumented, and as long as those monuments haven't been destroyed, and as long as you have the experience, you will be able to find treasure rooms and mines until the cows come home.

I really don't mind when authors write a book and reveal their "solutions." Most times they will also reveal treasure maps that are, if nothing else, great to practice your decoding abilities. And at the very best, these maps will lead you to great treasures. Again, I don't mind these solutions, even though they are false trails, and therefore useless. But what does bother me is when these authors show a phony solution and then make statements about having located treasures by using this solution.

It bothers me for this reason: someone out there, after reading this book, will think that he/she can apply this solution to their treasure site and "hit it big." And I can guarantee you, if you have used, or are thinking about using this "surveyed treasure grid" technique, then you have not only found NOTHING, but you will never find ANYTHING (using a metal detector doesn't count).

So, unless you're really good, treasure rooms and mines of the KGC and these other groups can be found ONLY with a map, a compass, and a tape measure, and by following the signs and symbols that were set up to aid you in your efforts. But again, remember that there are many "false trails" that will try to lead you off course. I guarantee that you WILL "fall into" these false trails. The question is, are you going to be able to get back on the right course, or are you gonna play tic-tac-toe for forty years? Huh

~~~

I will post more on the subject of maps...rock and paper.
rangler

 

[Springfield]

springfield,
good question...
"What if the azimuths were intentionally offset by a certain number of degrees from a true north azimuth system (for further security against the curious)?"

truth is - they or at least one group - I followed...mismarked their headings by a certain favorite number of one the order...you had to know this number and if it was negative or positive in nature...without this or some tremendous luck, the cache is hidden forever..
[note: I know that you never ask a question that you dont all ready know the answer to..so
thanks for the confirmation.]
rangler

You're welcome. As to my original question - how did the carvers accurately measure the azimuth angles?

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Why hasn't anyone pointed this out? Too simple maybe? I don't think a profile needs to be barely recognizable in order to hide its purpose. I believe the useful purpose of a profile could be proprietary to the maker and therefore warrants little need to make it unrecongnizable . Also, everyone is always talking about turtles. Well, here is a perfect example of something that 'looks' like a turtle. It seems more solid to me than the other stuff you all are circling.

 

[hadji009]

bit, look at the elf on the bottom of your cutout.

 

[rangler]

springfield,
you asked....".how did the carvers accurately measure the azimuth angles?"

fair question, the answer is I dont know, I never questioned them, the chiseled digits
written on outcroppings and boulders are [easily]accurate enough to the show the next
sign for sure...so how did they, I mean a compass for sure, sextant yea, maps, dividers,
ect...?[edited note..azimuth is found with a protractor, measuring the angle between the compass bearing and which ever is closer true north or true south.]

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/leveson/core/linksa/comp.html

Each time that I have found compass bearings carved on stone, when followed, it is not some pin point location, the next sign is found well within the specs, signaled out by
the heading...in one case the heading was due east, and not more than 100 feet was
the object that the bearing was indicating...these are usually alpha monuments, pointing
out the omegas...pretty freaking simple really...however these bearing are well hidden,
in size, scale, and method of leaving numbers on a rock wall in plain site, and not one person in a million will see that set of numbers...test me then, look at my second alpha
I posted with the two pushed over faces...on that wall there is a set of three digits and whats more, there is a second set left by an earlier expedition of miners.
See if you can find both sets... I am not going to mark this site right away.

One last thought, Dign had said , that Distance and Direction was what the monuments are saying..however if Distance or Direction are missing, then it means that it is obvious
ie, if the bearing 110* then on that line, you will 'bump' right in to what they were sending you to...never seen it fail yet...



also, I am under the understanding that back in the early days, sailors only used the Cardinal points...so any degree written is 'rounded off' to the next cardinal point.
unless other wise stated. Is your understanding different?
thanks in advance for your reply
rangler

 

[rangler]

bit,
It is absurd that someone with such carving skills would leave behind so many carvings, in one place, so as to give away locations and directions to the very people they attempt conceal "treasure" from. Get real people. No Spaniard worth his salt would have ever just given you the key to his lock.

mike, your frustration comes thru loud and clear...you should know that the masons, ie stonecutters, the secular ones, did the work for the spanish. they were paid and told what to carve and how...the spanish army backed it up , it was the Kings orders, his code, his gold and his death sentence if some did not comply....so context is critical to understand what really happened. The are not giving anything away, it is coded and heavily so...and these monuments were to show the Kings Recovery Crew how to find the Quint...you know that right? I mean..your concept is too rudimentary Sir...
There are concealing it from everyone one! Except the King of Spain.
you seem to think this was a group of entrepreneurs and out free styling, collecting gold, stashing it, make a monument, carve some rock, go back home and come back years later and dig it up..naw man..no way...this was a machine...with strict ordered and enforced rules..any independent gold seeker, would take their gold with them, as springfield has said...this is not that...this is the tax caches we are looking for..sure the mines are there but my interest is in only the caches.
hope this helps under stand the 'game' so you know how to make the calls.
rangler