✅ SOLVED Any Ideas what this Brass item is??

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All,

I found two of these items--flat brass items with two holes for rivets/nails in them. They looked at the time like they would have some sort of stamping on them, but both are plain... The older one has some design and it is cast. It also has a part of an old nail still in one hole of it...








I found this one online that was stamped "CS" from a CW camp--the finder at the site says that it's a "watch fob" but it obviously isn't...and it's the same dimensions as the plain oval one I found (pictured above). I'm not suggesting that these are war related, but I'm just wondering what the heck they are...



http://www.midtenrelics.com/buttons.htm (See #2, second photo...)


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

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[BuckleBoy]

Didnt most flintlock pistols have rounded endcaps?

Yeah--good point. I've been looking at them, and it seems that most all of them did... So this idea might be a dead end.

 

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[Iron Patch]

Didnt most flintlock pistols have rounded endcaps?

Yeah--good point. I've been looking at them, and it seems that most all of them did... So this idea might be a dead end.

I'll pretty much guarantee it's a dead end.

 

[AZ-Mtnman]

I'd beg to differ, if that was an end-cap, it wouldn't be flat. Even being made out of brass and after all this time, if they did wind up flat, they would more than likely end up with splits or distorted. There were decrotive pieces put opposite of the locks on most guns of the time, but these look too small for that purpose. Most of the ones I've seen on this post would fit into the decorations on the forearms on most rifles. Most only had them tieing into the pins that held that barrel, but I've seen where they doubled the decoration and added other badges to the fore-arm. From the way these look, especially the CS, it looks like something that was added just below the tang.

 

[leddel]

hello BuckleBoy i have found more than a few of these and wondered what they might have gone to as well all of mine were recovered from late colonial to early federal homesites and all have somekind of stamped or engraved design to here's a picture of the latest two i picked up this year .Dan

 

[Gypsy Heart]

I still think they are decorative personal id plates.......
http://www.historygateway.co.uk/history-tudor-artifacts.html

 

[creskol]

I have seen this type of tag used on old trunks and suitcases as well.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Leddel,

Thanks so much for posting yours. I think it is interesting that you have the same two basic shapes as any of the ones I've found... the oblong shape and the oval shape. The time frame for these seems to be late colonial era up through early 1800s.

It seems that their use was widespread--civilian, military, in the USA, as well as abroad (as can be seen on the link Gypsy provided in her reply).

I agree with Fast Dave that because of the countersinking, they probably would've been riveted to something (are we thinking horse tack here?) The old square nail in mine would seem to speak otherwise, but I agree about the nail not being flush with the top anyhow--so why make the brass that way.. Mine could've been a later use for the object--in which it was nailed after the rivets came loose...

Does anyone else have one with iron markings from nails in them? If not, rivets are probably the way to go.

About the furniture pieces...how many pieces of decorative furniture were in single-slung log cabins in the Western Frontier of KY and Indiana in the early 1800s? I'm pretty sure that there weren't many elaborate pieces. If these had a keyhole in them, we'd know easily what they were... I also can't imagine a piece or decoration like that which would not survive in some form or another in later furniture decorations--especially in the florid Victorian-Era furnishings. So I'm inclined to say (still) either horse-tack or weapon-related.

AZ--can you find a photo of one on a rifle or musket?

I still think they are decorative personal id plates.......
http://www.historygateway.co.uk/history-tudor-artifacts.html

Yes, one is listed as a "personal ID tag" there--and it is the oval variety with the two holes and the edge markings.

I guess my issue with this ID is that of all of these that have been found, none of them which appear posted online, or those found by other Tnet members has a name or initials on it--so it really isn't an ID tag... And I really wonder if the history gateway site has the ID correct.




These are just my hunches--online photos are sparse, and there really isn't much on these items. I don't know really what I'm looking for here, besides a photo of one of these attached to some leather or wood, or perhaps just the idea that fits the best...

And maybe it'll be the type of thing that after 50 replies we'll be back at horse tack... I don't know. But I do think that with as many of these as have been found and are being found, someone has to know something.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I have seen this type of tag used on old trunks and suitcases as well.

Can you find a photo? I'd love to see one if you can find a photo.


Thanks for your reply,


Buckleboy

 

[AZ-Mtnman]

Hey BB, here's a pretty good pic of what I was talking about. Keep in mind that with any other type of decoration, they can come in a variety of styles. http://www.krusemuzzleloaders.com/Dove convertible Bethlehem Rifle.htm

 

[BuckleBoy]

Hey BB, here's a pretty good pic of what I was talking about. Keep in mind that with any other type of decoration, they can come in a variety of styles. http://www.krusemuzzleloaders.com/Dove convertible Bethlehem Rifle.htm

AZ,

Thanks for the link.

I'm not certain that's what we've got here though. I'm quite familiar with the decoration on the bottom of the stock, as well as the side decoration--which was frequently serpent-shaped. I've dug examples of both types before. I do see those little ovals on the side of the rifle though--is that what you're referring to? I've also dug pieces of the trigger guard and lock mechanism from early guns before.

Too bad they don't have a close-up of those oval pieces. They look a little too small compared to the examples pictured above in the post, but they are the same shape.


I have a good friend in Virginia who builds muskets (at least I think he still does). I may give him a call and send him a photo.



Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Rob-IL]

I have also found these at early 1800s sites. I was told several years ago that they are early saddle disk. Now exactly what a saddle disk function is, "I have no idea". If you look closely at the tapered hole you will see it's not perfect as the brass was poured into a mold in which the taper was formed into, then a thin web was punched out for the complete hole. I'm satisfied they are from somewhere in the 1790 to 1830 +-.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I have also found these at early 1800s sites. I was told several years ago that they are early saddle disk. Now exactly what a saddle disk function is, "I have no idea". If you look closely at the tapered hole you will see it's not perfect as the brass was poured into a mold in which the taper was formed into, then a thin web was punched out for the complete hole. I'm satisfied they are from somewhere in the 1790 to 1830 +-.

Rob,

Thanks for your reply. I'm confident in the date range too...

I was unable to find anything about a "saddle disc" anywhere on line...

You're right about the holes in the pieces--and their construction.


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Ohio Jerry]

Buckleboy,I had never seen one of these oval pieces until i saw it on your post last night. I couldn't believe it when one turned up for me tonight within a foot or so of this St Joseph piece. Sorry if I'm only adding to the mystery. This comes from the same cellarhole site that has produced an 1865 Two center,1865 IH and 1868 IH and a no date "Fatty" IH and it came from the "path" to a sandstone lined springhouse just across a ravine from the cellarhole. No identifying marks that I can see without cleaning it up better but after scratching the edge I can definitely tell it's brass...
Jerry

 

[sniffer]

could it be a decorative tag from a boot? I've seen newer versions that the laces on a boot towards the toe, would weave through the holes to keep it attached to the boot, or possible an ID tag from the bottom of a boot. In vietnam, they attached dog tags to their boots to help in ID'ing bodies

Sniffer

 

[Gypsy Heart]

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/dog_tags.htm

 

[john37115]

I knew I had one that looked pretty close. I thought mine was an adornment from a horses bridle or a saddle.

 

[BuckleBoy]

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/dog_tags.htm

Gypsy,

Thanks for your reply.

I really don't think these are ID discs...because there is no information written on them...and even an ID disc from a confederate soldier would've had more than just "C.S." stamped on it...


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Ohio Jerry]

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

 

[Iron Patch]

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

But are the saddles you're looking at over 150 years old? Things tend to change slightly over time.

 

[Ohio Jerry]

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

But are the saddles you're looking at over 150 years old? Things tend to change slightly over time.

good point Ironpatch.This is a McClelland saddle dated 1904 which is still probably 50 years too new