Atlantis

[Salvor6]

The subduction zone is way far away from the Mediterainean. That means that Santorini is probably Atlantis.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

nah Salvor6, taint your not taking in consideration the Atlas Ridge.

 

[Alex Burke]

The subduction rate mentioned earlier is accurate but in a way doesn't tell the whole story as it is an average and yearly it is obviously very little, but....

If we consider during the 9.2 Alaska quake in 1964 the ground liquified completely in many areas and in others huge areas were lifted up or sank below sea level.

Taken from the Wikipedia article:

"Two hundred miles southwest, some areas near Kodiak were permanently raised by 30 feet (9.1 m). Southeast of Anchorage, areas around the head of Turnagain Arm near Girdwood and Portage dropped as much as 8 feet (2.4 m), requiring reconstruction and fill to raise the Seward Highway above the new high tide mark."

In my opinion a coastal city in a mega thrust fault zone area could disappear under the waves overnight. Especially because the mega thrust faults that cause these quakes are often high angled or reverse faults that move almost vertically when they do activate causing the land to rise up or sink.

I don't know anything about proposed locations of Atlantis or any of the lore but the idea of land quickly subsiding or rising up is interesting to me and thought I'd throw in the mega thrust fault theory.

 

[cactusjumper]

The subduction rate mentioned earlier is accurate but in a way doesn't tell the whole story as it is an average and yearly it is obviously very little, but....

If we consider during the 9.2 Alaska quake in 1964 the ground liquified completely in many areas and in others huge areas were lifted up or sank below sea level.

Taken from the Wikipedia article:

"Two hundred miles southwest, some areas near Kodiak were permanently raised by 30 feet (9.1 m). Southeast of Anchorage, areas around the head of Turnagain Arm near Girdwood and Portage dropped as much as 8 feet (2.4 m), requiring reconstruction and fill to raise the Seward Highway above the new high tide mark."

In my opinion a coastal city in a mega thrust fault zone area could disappear under the waves overnight. Especially because the mega thrust faults that cause these quakes are often high angled or reverse faults that move almost vertically when they do activate causing the land to rise up or sink.

I don't know anything about proposed locations of Atlantis or any of the lore but the idea of land quickly subsiding or rising up is interesting to me and thought I'd throw in the mega thrust fault theory.

Alex,

I spent a year on Kodiak. Loved it! We used to go to a freighter that had been deposited about one mile inland by the Tsunami from the quake. They just cemented it into place in an inland lake that was created by the Tsunami. Turned it into a hotel/nightclub with a nice restaurant. Interesting place.

Here are some photo's of the devastation.

pictures of alaska earthquake kodiak - Bing images

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hmmm, isn't anyone going to shoot down my coveted theory on Atlantis, it has many holes or flaws. Free coffee to whorver does it attn Roy. Joe , etc.

 

[Oroblanco]

hmmm, isn't anyone going to shoot down my coveted theory on Atlantis, it has many holes or flaws. Free coffee to whorver does it attn Roy. Joe , etc.

Hmm I thought you did NOT want anyone blasting holes in your theory amigo, which is why I have not posted anything. I do see some issues with this theory.

On the idea of subduction causing the destruction of Atlantis, that is certainly a possible scenario, that the built up forces of subduction might well result in massive earthquakes and subsidence(s) of land. Without some evidence to support this idea however it is just that, a theory that MIGHT fit.

That mid-Atlantic ridge, and the area you keep referring to as a 'caldera' is also POSSIBLE to be the true location of Atlantis. However, most of the terrain in that area is extremely deep water now. There have been land subsidences in which land which was above ground, ended up thousands of feet below water (as has happened in the Hawaiian islands repeatedly, also in the Azores, and if memory serves the Canary islands as well) in the form of island shelf subsidence. In these cases, a sort of 'shelf' of land attached to an island, becomes undercut, OR becomes unstable due to such otherwise mundane things as subsurface water that builds up and creates instability. One of the Atlantis theories has it that this is what occurred with Atlantis, and points to the Canary islands as 'the' site. While I would not hesitate to agree that the Canary islands certainly could have been a part of an Ice age seagoing civilization, however they have never been large enough to fit Plato's description of the main island.

The trouble with the Atlantis story is that it is so many different things to so many different people. Modern authors have added on fantastic details that are not mentioned by Plato or any other ancient source. Also, we have it from Plutarch that Plato embellished the story of Atlantis, which we can find clear evidence (circumstantial though it is) that he was in fact stealing details from the ancient Minoan civilization, and perhaps of the city of Helike as well, to mix in with the ancient tale of the Ice Age civilization that was destroyed in earthquakes and floods. That some kind of awful catastrophe struck the Earth circa 10,000 BC (roughly, not going to calculate the exact date tonight) is pretty much a certainty, as our geologists and even historians are now grudgingly admitting. The nearly world-wide commonality of a great flood, which destroyed that which was before, and left a few survivors to start again certainly supports the contention that the end of the last Ice Age did not come with a whisper. In fact the evidence is pointing to more than one ancient civilization existing circa 10,000 BC, nearly all very close to the seas, and all destroyed at the same time in the same cataclysm.

Probably a majority of those with an interest in Atlantis, have found it already - in 1000 different places. I am not immune, and am fairly convinced that the evidence has been in plain sight for quite some time, but has not been recognized because we are all looking for the late Bronze age type of culture that Plato describes in detail, complete with triremes and chariots, when the real Atlantis was more like a proto-civilization with only the rudest types of agriculture (cattle herding for instance) along with fishing, trade and warfare/conquest to enrich and or supplement the supply of goods. Plato did provide enough evidence to locate his Atlantis, the original one and not some later state that he was borrowing details from, an example was the mention of elephants. No elephants have ever lived on Santorini/Thera, and not sure but think there never were any elephants on Crete either. Other hints are likewise included, which help locate the island of Atlantis too.

So please do continue, plug those holes in the theory etc. I won't steal your theory or location, certainly not without your permission first!

 

[Simon1]

If Atlantis was mowed over by the Atlantic Ridge, then chances are we will never find it as it would have been grounded up during the process. Part of me thinks Roy may have a point that it is now on land, and as Salvor6 said, Santorini looks like a possibility except the location. Just my opinion.

 

[markmar]

Oro

IMO , the last days of Atlantis occured in the Bronze Age , and this because some logical reasons :

First , the Antlanteans should have a naval force to move along the Mediteranean coasts to conquer the kingdoms/cities from that era , except if Atlantis was on inland of Europe or Asia , which would not fit with the known description as Atlantis been a great island .

Second , the Atlantis had walls covered with bronze , and this melting result of other metals was discovered in the Broze Age ( like named ) .

As for the elephants , the most advanced kingdoms from that era and long after , bought elephants from India to use them in agriculture or infantry wars . Remember how the Persian army used elephants against the 300 of Leonida and also Hanibal had elephants in his army against Rome .

Also , many historians support how the infamous Troy war was only to take the Greeks possesion of the rich deposits of cooper and tin which were on the east coast of Aegean Sea , and to control the trade traffic ( by tools ) in the Dardanelles straits .

These are some of the logical reasons . I wish a good weekend to all .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Marius, Oro, Simon. yer close, but no free coffee yet. go back to the original story and strip the obvious additions off.


for me only so far.

 

[markmar]

Never mind Don Jose

I drink my second frozen coffee glass today . For your insistance in the Atlantis legend you have earned a glass of mango juice

 

[sdcfia]

The trouble with the Atlantis story is that it is so many different things to so many different people. Modern authors have added on fantastic details that are not mentioned by Plato or any other ancient source. Also, we have it from Plutarch that Plato embellished the story of Atlantis, which we can find clear evidence (circumstantial though it is) that he was in fact stealing details from the ancient Minoan civilization, and perhaps of the city of Helike as well, to mix in with the ancient tale of the Ice Age civilization that was destroyed in earthquakes and floods. That some kind of awful catastrophe struck the Earth circa 10,000 BC (roughly, not going to calculate the exact date tonight) is pretty much a certainty, as our geologists and even historians are now grudgingly admitting. The nearly world-wide commonality of a great flood, which destroyed that which was before, and left a few survivors to start again certainly supports the contention that the end of the last Ice Age did not come with a whisper. In fact the evidence is pointing to more than one ancient civilization existing circa 10,000 BC, nearly all very close to the seas, and all destroyed at the same time in the same cataclysm.

Probably a majority of those with an interest in Atlantis, have found it already - in 1000 different places. I am not immune, and am fairly convinced that the evidence has been in plain sight for quite some time, but has not been recognized because we are all looking for the late Bronze age type of culture that Plato describes in detail, complete with triremes and chariots, when the real Atlantis was more like a proto-civilization with only the rudest types of agriculture (cattle herding for instance) along with fishing, trade and warfare/conquest to enrich and or supplement the supply of goods. Plato did provide enough evidence to locate his Atlantis, the original one and not some later state that he was borrowing details from, an example was the mention of elephants. No elephants have ever lived on Santorini/Thera, and not sure but think there never were any elephants on Crete either. Other hints are likewise included, which help locate the island of Atlantis too.

Plato was neither an historian nor a geographer. He was a philosopher. The Atlantis story was clearly allegorical, a moral lessen draped around a fictitious past heroic Athenian victory over a fictitious aggressive world power that was allegedly attempting to conquer Europe, Asia and all points in between. "Atlantis" may have been described using characteristics of known historical cultures for dramatic effect, but in fact it was never a physical reality as Plato described it. After all, Plato's mentor Socrates, when hearing of the great Athenian victory said, "Tell me though, what was that ancient deed our city performed...? I’ve never heard of it." Seems as if he, and all Greeks - not just Plato - should have known the story.

How about Herodotus? He preceded Plato and is known as one of the world's earliest historians - not a perfect reporter, but generally considered to be a reliable source of BCE events, especially in Greece. He mentions the Minoans as a great ancient sea power in the Mediterranean, but nothing about the apparently even greater Atlantis civilization. In fact, as far as past threats to Greece were concerned, Herodotus described the Persians in the 5th century BCE as the greatest threat the Athenians had ever faced.

I do suspect there were sophisticated world cultures in antediluvian times, but IMO, Plato's Atlantis is just that - Plato's.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Go back to the "source" of the story of Atlantis...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Do R & I on the Greek, Solon; you MAY be surprised...

 

[sdcfia]

Do R & I on the Greek, Solon; you MAY be surprised...

Very little, if any, of Solon's original writings survived. Most of what is attributed to him comes from undocumented sources of others who followed him, often by many generations. It's known Solon visited Egypt, but it's Plato - not Solon himself - who tell of the story of Solon getting the Atlantis story from an Egyptian priest. That said, I do put a fair amount of credence in the ancient mythologies of the original various gods from the different ancient cultures. I simply believe Plato juxtaposed some of the mythology into Athenian history to juice up his philosophical points. Nothing wrong with that - the problem is that people read him literally, not figuratively.

 

[markmar]

sdcfia

Yes , the Atlantis legend seems to be a fictional/metaphorical story which describes the brave Athenians who win against all the enemies , even they are army of giants , ancient Gods or half blood ancient Gods , or an army of a country large as Libya and Asia together. The Atlantis started from the beginning of the World and vanished without traces after a great battle with the Athens warriors . So , if the Atlantis physically don't exist , what remains to remember ? of course the brave Athens warriors . Was this a propaganda of that era to encourage the Athens army ? Who knows ?
Also seems very strange , why Homer in his epic poems didn't write about Atlantis even as a comparison with the Troy war ? Knew the Egyptians more about the Atlantis story and didn't know the Greeks till Solon - Plato ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Err, uh, what about the Egyptian temple documents, , is that land or island area coverage ? big difference.Ice melting from ?? sufficiently in a day and night ?causing the lowlands to be inudated, what about the potential of planet"X" passing by some 10,000 years ago, biblical references, or peraps it was situated oer a type of soil that was easily liquified, or an eenormus methane deposit.or ? or ??

A diant caldera sunk by subduction where it is supposed to be
so far no free cffee, but I'll give in this once

Santorini is an example of what it must have looked like, only in a very reduced scale..

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hmmm...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Reb, as I was saying, subduction is the most logical of the group. but what type ?

 

[markmar]

Read what happened in Santorini region after the WW2 war . From the Greek wiki version of Santorini :

" During World War II, Santorini was occupied by Italian first (1941) and then, in 1943, by German occupation forces. On July 9, 1956 occurred near Amorgos earthquake measuring 7.8 on the Richter scale, which was the strongest that took place in Europe in the 20th century. The main quake, with a 6.9 Richter aftershock followed 12 minutes later, devastated Santorini, Astypalea, Anafi, Kalymnos, Leros, Patmos and Amorgos . 53 deaths and one of the biggest tsunami in Sea, with a height up to 25 meters .After this event much of the population left the island " .

Very close to Plato's description . The Santorini region has the worst conditions in land issues in Europe , like big earthquakes generated by tectonic plates subduction and active volcanoes .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

MY Grick friend, while still very interesting, it des not compare to Atlantis, which sank into the sea overnight effectively. By the 20 th century it had sunk to 12,000 ft under the Atlantic ocean. Gracias for the Santorini update.