Bering Sea Gold Under the Ice S3 starts 8/24

[Ordell]

No word on the cast except for a clip showing Zeke, and pretty sure Emily is there.

 

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[AK_Au_Diver]

Zeke, I lost all respect for him over the Last Season,
ripping off Emily

I didn't watch the show so I'm confused as to how Zeke ripped off Emily. As far as I know, in real life, there was no such thing going on. Emily still owes my partner and I a bunch of money for the dredge we sold her, and she hasn't made a payment in over a year. I sincerely doubt she will maintain possession of it for much longer. In other news, I may soon have a 10" dredge for sale again.

 

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[Sick4gold]

From only watching the show I don't understand a few things and hope you can clarify.
It seems that there are so many equipment problems which is the vast majority of issues causing loss of production.
The sad state of most of the equipment seems to be the root cause and I was wondering why most don't actually have decent equipment? It may be just the image I have from watching but it seems that most miners in Nome have very little money and even worse equipment. I understand that it's incredibly expensive to live or mine in Nome but why doesn't someone aquire investor(s) prior and have proven divers and dredgers with experience working well together?
It seems that if someone would live in the lower 48 and already have a team and ship the equipment in when needed I can't help but think that there is much larger profits to be had assuming your actually getting gold.
Which leads to my next question,
Again I just watch the show and dream but why is ice dredging so much less productive?
It seems that with a decently insulated shed over a hole the operation would be easier as there are no waves/weather to worry about. It seems on the show that dive times are comparable to summer especially with multiple shift divers which makes me not understand. I know there are still under ice currents and the temperature makes everything more difficult but I see no reason why production should drop so dramatically especially when surface conditions favor dredging more than summer.
Lastly I was wondering why more people don't dredge or gain permits for dredging where the rivers and creeks dump into the ocean. Again I've only watched the show but I do understand how the deposits got there and how ocean currents have created pay streaks but has anyone investigated the source? Of every episode I've ever seen no one has been near a river besides Emily and glen when the went river dredging. Are areas like this permanently off limits?
I know that people will try anything to get an edge but it's hard to tell where people are underwater especially with ice on it. Is it frequent for people to dredge in off limit places?
Thanks

 

[AK_Au_Diver]

It seems that there are so many equipment problems which is the vast majority of issues causing loss of production.

Most operations have good equipment and very little downtime from equipment problems. But that doesn't make good TV. We have secondary and tertiary backups for every critical component, can make on board the dredge every hydraulic hose we use, etc, etc.

why doesn't someone aquire investor(s) prior and have proven divers and dredgers with experience working well together?

They do. The trouble is that the profit margin isn't enough. For a 6" dredge, it's not worth it unless it's one guy that owns/operates and has no deckhand. For an 8" you might be able to afford a deckhand or have two divers/owners that deckhand while the other dives. The problem is getting the ground worth mining. The 10" guys on the couple good areas can run shifts and have separate managers, but the cuts get slim quick the more people that are involved.

why is ice dredging so much less productive?

The ice gets in the way. Dredges constantly are moving a foot, ten feet, 50 feet. The ice slows down the moving, and makes one more willing to work weaker ground only because it's within reach of the hole. The ice is four feet thick. There are other reasons but that is the main one. There are also winter restrictions on size and horsepower.

Lastly I was wondering why more people don't dredge or gain permits for dredging where the rivers and creeks dump into the ocean.

They do. There are restrictions on sizes and horsepower near salmon streams (designated as supporting anadromous fish). These restrictions change for certain date ranges.

has anyone investigated the source?

Yes, that's been done long ago. There are some interesting USGS publications from 1960's and other years. Thousands of drill holes showing the extend into the ocean, etc, etc. The original load source was the upland areas around Nome. The second to last glaciation period (150,000 to 300,000 years ago) pulverized and thrust the material out across what is now Nome and into the ocean, stopping about 2.5 miles offshore, and extending a few miles east of Nome, and up to 12 miles west. Dropping three major gravel/pay bands above, and two to three below current seawater line.

Is it frequent for people to dredge in off limit places?

No. This is a serious offense and is policed by locals, landowners, DNR, and other dredgers. Most often it's people using too powerful of motors for the area, or too large of a suction hose. People can lose their permits and get banned.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Great info AK.

 

[KevinInColorado]

I actually felt sorry for her & had to laugh how much the Name "Dragon Slayer" bugged Glen LeBaron I only wish she would have Trounced him with it. Of course I still will always root for the Underdog & loose respect for big ego's

Me too! (Jeff, nice to see you getting to be a member of the forum instead of always stuck with your mod role...which I DO thank you for btw)
AK_AU thanks a lot for the commentary!!

 

[jeff of pa]

I didn't watch the show so I'm confused as to how Zeke ripped off Emily. As far as I know, in real life, there was no such thing going on. Emily still owes my partner and I a bunch of money for the dredge we sold her, and she hasn't made a payment in over a year. I sincerely doubt she will maintain possession of it for much longer. In other news, I may soon have a 10" dredge for sale again.

My understanding he gutted the dredge he sold her , before turning it over to her.
I find it hard to believe she was sucker enough to agree to him doing that in advance
of the deal. But Hey I wasn't there & I do know there is allot of made up drama.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Wow, really? Kinda franked up if true.

 

[Sick4gold]

Thank you for the time you took to respond AK_AU
Although you seem to have mixed emotions about it please know your living a lot of people's dream.
Fail or succeed I'd love the opportunity but life has a way of grounding you.
Wish you all the best and I eagerly await more of your posts as they are informative and to the point.
Sick

 

[AK_Au_Diver]

My understanding he gutted the dredge he sold her , before turning it over to her.
I find it hard to believe she was sucker enough to agree to him doing that in advance
of the deal. But Hey I wasn't there & I do know there is allot of made up drama.

The dredge was mine, I designed and built it for myself, but after the insane overvalued prices of the lease sale left me without the leases I wanted, I was recruited to join the best operation in Nome. So I rented the 10" to Zeke and his band. Then after the season we decided to sell the dredge to Zeke, since we couldn't use it ourselves.

The dredge was partially gutted before she made the offer to buy it. Zeke took several key items to use for his ice operation. The rest of the stuff Emily gutted herself (well, she hired overpriced helpers to do it for her). Zeke paid for all that stuff by reducing the amount Emily had to pay to buy him out, reducing by more than the replacement value of the items I might add. I have the contract right here. Emily got a great deal from Zeke. Emily wasted a lot of money completely remodeling the dredge, instead of just replacing the items. But with them it's the show first, and somewhere way down in the priorities are common sense, sound business practices, and gold.

I can easily understand how people can be mislead from what the show portrays.

 

[jeff of pa]

Yea I should have known better, But it shows how easy it is to get caught in the BS

 

[azblackbird]

I can easily understand how people can be mislead from what the show portrays.

Speaking of being misled. What's up with everybody mining in the same general area? Did Discovery Channel or the production company buy or lease out a couple claims, and then told whomever appears on the show that this is where you have to dredge? Just seems out of the ordinary that everybody is so close to each other.

 

[AK_Au_Diver]

What's up with everybody mining in the same general area?

The reality is that there are very few areas up here that are worth dredging, even at today's prices, which are still more than double what they were when I started.

I don't know what it looks like on the show. The CR and AuG are two of 20 or 30 dredges permitted by the leaseholders of two 1000 acre leases to work on those leases for a percentage. These are called the "East Lease Tract" and "West Lease Tract" or something like that. The West one used to be called Tomcod from the 1960's maps (we called it Jess Creek), the others had other fish names. These 2000 acres are the remains of over 8000 acres of leases that one guy got from the company that ran the Bima (a 500' long bucket line dredge that operated in the late 1980's). The rest was taken back by the state and auctioned off as new smaller leases in 2011.

Emily, Ian Foster, and a couple others are mining on a 1999 lease block, #14, now called "old#14" to avoid confusion with the numbering from the 2011 lease sale. This is adjacent to the 8" East Rec area, which makes it look more crowded.

Camera tricks can make the dredges look really close. Even to my eye standing on a dredge, another can look way too close, but the laser range finder will say 3000 feet. They only have to stay 150' apart, or whatever the rule is. It feels really close on the water, but it's not really.

As for the 2011 leases, almost no one dredges on those. They were mostly worthless (or of low value), which is why they were available to be auctioned off in 2011. (Speaking as someone that has spent much time this summer mining on one of the new leases, but a 640 acre one farther out. It's the 40 and 160 acre ones that have been picked over for 10 years before the sale.)

See Map:
http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/mining/nome/Nome_Offshore_Overview.pdf

-Andrew

 

[IMPDLN]

Just curious......so what is the story with the lady that bought up all those leases in 2011? Was that a foolish move by an individual with too much money or was she acting as an agent for some corporation or environmental group? Just curious as to why an individual would spend all that money to control all those leases if they are not worth the effort. Maybe a scheme to mine the miners that backfired? Dennis

 

[AK_Au_Diver]

what is the story with the lady that bought up all those leases in 2011?

I would not call her a lady. This woman is greedy, twice bankrupt, known by many as the worst person in Nome. That may be a bit harsh, but that's what they say. She has never done me wrong, but I've never had to deal with her so she has never had the chance.

She has spent a few years and lots of money building a horrible design for an excavator barge. She doesn't allow anyone to dredge on her leases, she is too greedy and doesn't trust anyone. I have not seen much activity working on her dredged this year, it looks basically the same as last year.

She really didn't get that many leases, it just looked that way on the show. The guy who owned those leases for 15 years before the 2011 lease sale told her afterwards that she won a bunch of worthless leases. His fleet of 10" dredges had access to that ground, and all the other near-shore leases including the new 6" Rec area.

They are not all worthless, just lower grade material. Of course I did pull 600 ozt off one of those leases that the lady got, before the lease sale. (of course that was over several years, with a couple 8" dredges).

 

[azblackbird]

AK Au Diver,

On average how deep are most of the divers going? Noticed tonight Glen and Zeke were at 30 ft. and they said they were pushing it. Were they really, or was that all showboat BS from the producers? If in fact they were pushing it, then are there any "deep sea diving" rigs up there? Seems a guy with some some decent sized motors, pumps, long hoses, and some deep sea diving equipment could clean house up there. Would that be the case, or are there laws or regulations on how deep or how far from shore a dredging crew can go? Just wondering… all this stuff fascinates me.

 

[AK_Au_Diver]

On average how deep are most of the divers going?

It's a matter of physics, in this case safe dive limits for nitrogen absorption. The dive tables say that for a healthy person, they can stay at 30 feet or shallower with no limit on time, and safely come to the surface without decompressing (You just can't fly in an airplane for X amount of time). The rule of thumb is that you can always safely half the pressure. The surface is 14.7 psi, every 30 feet of water adds about 15 psi more. So 30 feet is about 30psi (aka 2 atmospheres), half of 30 is 15, or surface pressure.

60 feet is 45 psi, or 3 atm, nitrogen gets absorbed into solution in your body fluids at a certain rate, once they reach equilibrium at that depth (about 1 hour, I think), then a safe assent may only go up to 1.5 atm, or about 8 feet. Now well trained diver would probably do a stop at 30 feet and 15 feet, I don't have the dive tables in front of me so don't quote my depths and times.

Most dredgers are in 12 to 25 feet of water, basically all dredge between 5 and 30 feet. To go deeper you would need enriched oxygen (Nitrox), which is expensive to do, especially for the heavy breathing required for the labor of dredging.

In all the studies, the gold count drops really low once you get past 2.5 miles from shore, which is about 65 feet. The last 3 years, I've been mostly in 60 feet, but I'm special. The way to go deeper is not to use divers, the problem is that the cost to do that is so high, and the gold is sparser. Plus all the leases in deeper water are taken. Maybe when I'm done with them, I'll let others mine the scraps.

 

[azblackbird]

Thanks for the reply AK… I learn something new everyday.

 

[mr007s]

No word on the cast except for a clip showing Zeke, and pretty sure Emily is there.

I could never use "pretty" and "Emily" in the same sentence

 

[Hoser John]

I have always used my PADI dive tables religeously. Got pins and needles,down a 1,600'+ cliff, by myself and SCAREY as LL. Back down for a hour sitting on a ledge at 20' shaking is a most vexing situation. Darn dredge fulla gold made the brain and safety fade away,nevermore-John

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

I could never use "pretty" and "Emily" in the same sentence