buried cache

[Frankn]

Lets look at this concrete situation. Concrete poured in a basement of an older well trampled earth floor. It is a light duty application like a sidewalk. I have poured many sidewalks, with no wire or rebars. In fact, I have never seen sidewalks with reinforcement. I have replaced a few in Baltimore and the code does not call for reinforcement. Frank

 

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[Calvin.Coin]

Sidewalks don't have re-bar because of a thing called expansion joints...over a certain size and you bet they are re-inforced (assisted pouring plenty on military bases), besides a diy, mickey-mouse homeowner sidewalk-job is much smaller then a factory floor. Also, the only reason Romans got away without using Re-Bar was because they were using a thick mortar like cement (slump-less) with large chunks of aggregate with acted as re-bar.

You might be right in dreaming this is just a simple little task. He's probably already stealthily found a way to remove a cache from beneath a tile covered concrete floor without anybody being the wiser and now mum is the word. I'm thinking he used one of those long range detectors with a built-in extractor! Works like magic, it does. Only finds what you are looking for and nothing else...


cheers,
cc

 

[LuckyThirteen08]

Id be happy to help the OP check this area out, Taking on a concrete floor isnt nearly as hard as ppl are trying to make it sound,A little bit of patience and time could put you directly on top of a cache before you pick up the first sledge hammer or other assorted devices of destruction. I still say that a metal detector is the cheapest and most common sense way to go about this,At least narrow down the amount of labor intensive work that will be involved in making the recovery.

HH John

 

[Calvin.Coin]

Yes, the best suggestion so far has been to rent (or buy borrow a detector). But don't forget he intends to do this on the sly...that makes it a bit tougher.

Once the detector is in hand you will need a few other things. Chalk, chalk-line, measuring tape and pen/paper. Proceed as follows:

-Measure the room and draw a scale-map on paper.
-grid out the room in your mind and start methodically marking where the real grid of re-bar is (if it exists) use the chalk line to do this...
-if no re-bar then make a small tick-mark with the chalk where the detector picks something up. Transfer this to your paper map through careful measurement so you can leave the room exactly as was when done.
-study your map to determine the best place for penetration and get to it!

enjoy the hunt,
cc

Edited to Add:

The actual penetration is simple as well:

-Mark out 2x2 square on concrete (that will give you room to work, If you have to go down several feet)
-use a concrete saw to cut this if it is as thin as everybody imagines (I doubt it) and pry out the now-free chunk (apply Archimedes' concept of leverage because even a 3'' 2x2 slab is heavy)
-optional--grind through any rebar and use a hammer-drill if needed.
-dig down and retrieve cache.

If you're lucky, you are rich...if not add the pull-tab to the collection attached to quite a story...Now have fun replacing the tile before anybody discovers what you did. But that too, is not difficult, just hard to do without anybody noticing...

 

[LuckyThirteen08]

If you locate the cache by metal detector,And the room was say 16 x 16 feet or so,Id dig below the footer from the outside of the building and striaght in beneath the floor.Dont even remove the concrete,Nobody would be the wiser that the cache has already been removed. The re-bar in the concrete would actually be a safety measure in avoiding a tunnel collapse during the extraction of the cache.The rebar would in fact support the concrete from over head. I know my measurements may not be exact but a 16 foot room would leave you digging no more than eight feet maximum in any direction from any wall if starting from the outside,in and under.Just food for thought.

HH John

 

[Calvin.Coin]

If you locate the cache by metal detector,And the room was say 16 x 16 feet or so,Id dig below the footer from the outside of the building and striaght in beneath the floor.Dont even remove the concrete,Nobody would be the wiser that the cache has already been removed. The re-bar in the concrete would actually be a safety measure in avoiding a tunnel collapse during the extraction of the cache.The rebar would in fact support the concrete from over head. I know my measurements may not be exact but a 16 foot room would leave you digging no more than eight feet maximum in any direction from any wall if starting from the outside,in and under.Just food for thought.

HH John

I agree about tunneling being an option and even suggested as much in post #17...I'm thinking this is all hypothetical anyways, since Kendel has been silent for awhile.

I do want him to succeed in this endeavour!

peace,
cc

 

[LuckyThirteen08]

He is either silent or post 17 was enough info and he is on his way to the bahamas!

 

[Bigdogdad]

Maybe it was post #36 that put him on it. You all were silent about my post. It isn't the first time.

 

[Frankn]

Digging under a footer? you guys have to be kidding. A footer is at least 2' deep and possible 2' wide and the footer may start below the grade. Once you get under there you have no idea where you are in relation to the cache. Then there's the chance of the dirt above your tunnel caving in.
I think it is time to come clean about the details. How big is this room? Who owns it? Are the tiles asphalt or ceramic? Was the concrete job amateur work or professional. Are we helping someone rob a location? Frank

 

[Calvin.Coin]

Umm...I've dug plenty of tunnels under footers, into schools etc to run piping...and the reason for careful measurements above is so that you *do* know where you are in relation to where you are going. At least you are finally coming around as to this not being a simple job, the research better be spot on, not just some pipe-dream...

The story sounds suspect anyways, first there was concrete, then there wasn't, his dad owns it, but it must be done in secret...

Edited to add:

Regarding Post #36 (which added a completely different dimension)

I did make passing mention of a long range detector but I was kidding...Seriously though, when I was much younger I read a book about using pendulums over maps, an interesting concept to say the least--but my life took a more practical/scientific route. I am never one to totally believe in the impossibility of anything though, which means (in a convoluted way) that anything can be possible...And in this case your suggestion might be the best solution. Wouldn't cost a penny and would certainly entertain the OP.


peace,
cc

 

[Kendel]

Hi,
Am not gone to the Bahamas,
Nothing is suspicious about my story, it is and honest & genuine one. we are robbing no location either, the house is ours, i was born there. iam being cautious because there was some leakage and the house is sandwiched between homes.
Thank you for all yr informative posts some of which meet what i have been thinking,
Re-details of soil, I hve provided what i hve gathered from an elderly dad whose memoire is fading. It was a dirt soil, then cimented and ceramic tiled, i have no idea if it the job was done by amateur or professionel.
cheers!

 

[greg755]

Ok first off I have a couple of questions.
#1 if this was a factory and your house is sandwiched between other houses then how do you know it is under your floor and not the neighbors?
Factories are usually big. So the first thing I would do is dig up a survey. Then I would try to determine where the factory actually sat. Then if your lucky you may be able to pinpoint the exact rooms location assuming you really know just which room in the factory it was placed in.

#2 So now the problem is How big is the cache? Is it in a metal box or a wooden one? The reason I ask is that if it is small or in a wooden box (filled with paper money verses coins or bullion) then a two box or even maybe a ground penetrating unit will be useless.

As far as the floor goes there would probably only be re-bar in the foundations and not the floor itself and if the house/room was already there with a dirt floor than more than likely they just filled in the floor area with 3 inches of concrete and didnt even put wire in it as it is not bearing any loads from a car or something like that. In any event just running a regular detector over the floor in all metal mode will tell you if it has metal in it or not.

If you are certain that you have the cache pinpointed to an area or room that is roughly 30 ft by 30 foot then it would be quite simple to find it with a two box detector like a Gemini 3 provided it was large enough to detect. Just dig a big hole 6 foot deep and 6 ft square, in the center of the area and scan the sides and floor. Considering you are inside you can pile the dirt up in one corner of the room and know one would know you dug a hole. If the cache is below you just dig a little deep, if it is off to the side just tunnel over to it, if the floor is 3 inches thick it will not collapse on you but you could always use some 2 x 4's to brace it for safety. Two guys digging a 6 foot square hole will not take long. Cutting up a six foot square outline in the concrete with a saw is easy and then just bust it up into 5 or 6 pieces with a sledgehammer to remove. If you dont want the neighbors to hear the saw running just take a couple of days and cut a foot or two at a time while blaring the music.
This really isnt a big project. For a couple of days work you will know once and for all if it is there or not, the only cost you will have is the price to rent the saw and blades and about 10 bags or so of concrete to remake the floor.

Most cache hunters would give their right arm to be told a cache is located in a 30 by 30 foot space.

Good luck

 

[Kendel]

To Gregg ,
#1-the room in question is located right in our ground floor.
factories are usually big, yes, maybe i have used the word wrongly,, history has it that this ground floor of ours was a place certainly not a factory as we know of at our present time where metal was handled and worked by certain goldsmiths dealing with gold, silver, copper ? whether at a small scale, big scale I have no clue.
#2-The lead i have is there is a cache, big , small, in boxes, in jars , i have to find out.
Thanks for the detailed info

 

[Calvin.Coin]

Kendel, glad you're still around and thanks for all the clarification. Sounds like you have a good little weekend project. Get a detector, find that metal and dig it up. Report back what you find, I'm curious how this all plays out...

Is a pic of the floor a possiblility?

peace,
cc

 

[greg755]

Kendal. If the cache is "gold,silver and copper" then you should not have a problem locating it in such a small area. A Metal detector in all metal mode with a 12" loop will pick up a quart size jar of coins at 2-3 foot. A two box detector will hit that same jar at 6-10 foot. If you have several jars filled or a larger wooden box filled with metal the 2 box will go 15-20 ft. Of course these are just estimates it all depends on what type of soil you are in.
The only thing you would have to watch out for when digging is the plumbing pipes, if they are cast iron they will be picked up by the detector because a 2 box or a detector in all metal mode will not tell the difference between ferrous and non ferrous metals. But then again a good explanation to give the neighbors (for all the digging) is that your pipes were busted/clogged so that is why you had to dig up the floor.

 

[NGE]

I would guess that you are dealing with 3" of concrete/tile & about 6" of dirt. Just about any modern detector would pick up a cache at this dept. That is unless it is paper money in a wooden box. Frank

Large stacks of paper money in wooden box IS detectable! You have to have a machine that has a threshhold hum, when you pass over the object, the machine will null out. An example would be.....cut up pieces of plain paper(about a hunnert pieces) same size as paper money. Then take a hunnert one doller bills. Put into individual white envelopes and seal, I can tell you which envelope has the real money in it. U.S. paper bills have metal in the ink........nge

 

[Jason in Enid]

You do realize that this "cache" most likely IS NOT in the US don't you? The broken English, the and the discriptions from the OP just say "foriegn". This is treasure hunting basics.

And for the people who like to try to find fault with everyone else, I am not critisizing the OP. Whatever his first language is, his English is better than any of my secondary laguage skills.

 

[maipenrai]

It seems like there is a lot of useless guessing going on. Anyone that has joined a treasure site should know you need a detector, then go and detect, see what you can hear. Then you will know if there is re-bar, pipes or nothing, then go from there. Asking "how do I find a cache in my house (factory), will just get a lot of answers that have nothing to do with the situation, and since the op didnt give a very clear picture of what he was doing or after, then how can the answers be right? No matter if you dig under the foundation or cut through the floor, you still need to determine if there is anything under the floor, and he hasent really done this yet. No one here has a clue of what type of building this is, stone, cement, brick or wood, still not certain what the floor actually is. Tunneling under the foundation for someone without much experience is quite dangerous, and so is giving advice without knowing the facts. Even with a detector, if you can read the signals, then its almost useless.

 

[Kendel]

To Jason,
what you have said is so irrelevant.
Does saying memoire in post 51 in lieu of memory make me "foriegn" I am correcting here with my brocken english to "foreign".
I am not a treasure hunt pro, I am a novice who came to TN to learn from the experienced about a detector to use in my case, I didn't know I shud be Ivy league graduate to post on TN either,
To Maipenrai,
No-one is asked to guess anything ; I came on TN seeking help/explanation on the kind of detector to use in my particular situation. i think i have given out the necessary details. I have gained useful knowledge and enough info. One should abstain when not having things for sure to say.
With this, i am saying goodbye. thanks to all the positive posts

 

[Jason in Enid]

wow, who pissed in your cheerios today? Never said anything negative about you, and it's nothing to do with saying "memoire". I figured that was a autocorrect typo. I just making an observation about the posts, manner of speaking, sentence structure, and discriptions. You didn't say I was wrong, just irrelevant? So I guess when someone makes a comment about detecting US currency, saying this might not by in the US is irrelevent?

But please, feel free to leave or stay. Either way it's irrelevant.