Claim jumping mining violence

[cazisme]

A friend of mine purchased a patented claim in El Dorado County was hydraulic mined in late 1800's has cobble/riverbed deposits and tons of coyote holes. After purchasing he catches a few people claim jumping going into coyote holes and mining gold they say they have been coming here for years didnt know it was private blah blah blah after a few more years he starts to get tired of chasing off claim jumpers/treaspassers. One day hes on property a treaspasser is found he tells him private property you have to leave dont come back -Trespasser says not yours not leaving my friend pulls his ak on him says you dont leave you will be ventilated. I think it was a few hrs or the next day sheriff pulls up ( its a ways off the paved road) says complaint about brandishing weapons and threatening people he says yes I did it was tresspaasser and you cant come on my property and you cant have my guns. Needless to say a long converastion ensued luckily a relative of his was there who is in law enforcement and knew the laws. Long story short sheriff left after saying dont threaten people anymore.

Anyone have any good advice how to deal with dirtbag tresspassers who keep claimjumping? He really doesnt want to have anyone killed in coyote hole collapses.

Do you know of or deal with stuff like this?

 

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[Tonto]

The right of self defense pertains to protecting life, not property. Pointing a rifle at someone for trespassing and suspicion of theft may be illegal in Ca. (I assume this was in CA?) Like others have already said, posting the property against trespassing, and calling the cops every time is the logical route. As sad as it may seem, the reality is that whoever calls the cops first is generally "right" where the law is concerned. In this case, the trespasser called, and the owner turned out to be the suspect.

I would look for their vehicle, get the license plate, make, model and color, and give that to the police when I call. That way, if the trespassers leave before the cops arrive, it can be given to the responding officer so he can be looking for the vehicle. I would report a theft in progress, which could create a faster response time. If the cops are able to make contact with the suspects and find gold in their pockets, a theft charge could stand, along with the trespassing. It would also show the cops that the owner is reasonable in his behavior, as well as reliable in his complaint and suspicions of theft. Worst case scenario, if the situation deteriorates to a shooting, the police now know who to look for. It is never a good idea to use deadly force (which is simply pointing the firearm, not pulling the trigger) unless there is a reasonable belief of imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death. If the trespasser is armed with a deadly weapon, which could be a shovel, pick, pry-bar, knife, BFR (big friggin rock), or a firearm, then used a deadly weapon in self defense is justifiable. If I were the man in question, I would research CA's self defense statutes, and commit to memory the definition of a deadly weapon, and when it is lawful to use one in self defense. It varies from state to state...I know what it is in CO, and considering CA is different than everyone else, I would hesitate to think it might be similar.

 

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[augoldminer]

i have had claim jumpers and its hard to stop them.

The best i have done was to seed that claim with the slag from cadweld work i was doing as a electrician.
Cadweld is a Exothermic Welding process(Copper thermite) and it leaves small gold color beads in the slag.
Exothermic welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would carry a can around with me to collect this slag and on weekend spread it around on my claim where the claim jumpers were working.
I know they were getting nice bottles of these "GOLD" nuggets.
And i know they were going to be P**sed when the found they were a copper/aluminum alloy/

I had one underground mine the claim jumpers/thieves kept breaking into.
I ended up taking the top of a propane lamp and connecting it to a propane tank and putting it behind the steel door of the mine just out of sight so when someone looked through the small window on the door they could see the light coming from just out of sight.
no more break ins after that but a lot of strange stories of the crazy guy living in the mine.
it helped when i claimed to have seen this crazy guy and told everyone that he carried a rifle and would shoot.

A small Coleman lamp connected to a 40lb propane tank would burn at low setting for about 2 months.

And a friend that was a sheriffs deputy knew about the lamp.
Every couple months they would get a report about this crazy guy pulling a gun on someone.
When they got one of these reports they knew that the reporting person was up to no good and would run his criminal record.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Bobwire and signs every 50 feet , gaurd dog signs and your being recorded signs for posucuition , smile your on camera .

 

[Rawhide]

In todays world of instant gratification and easy money I would do one thing that will keep all but the most determined folks in. Restrict vehicle access. The farther out the better. Talk to land owners, blm, who ever owns the roads in. I agree trail cams are also a good bet so you can prosecute later. Let the police deal with idiots, you will get no where talking with them. I just dont think folks will want to hike a bunch of equipment in and then back out. I also know cameras will run off most folks doing illegal things.

 

[elgatodelnoche]

While they are higrading from your claim, vandalize their vehicles.

 

[Jason in Enid]

While they are higrading from your claim, vandalize their vehicles.

While not going THAT far, it should be fairly easy to find where the trespassers are parking to hike in. Get a partner with a tow-truck and start removing, or maybe a use a loader to block it in with boulders.

 

[Bejay]

I have signs everywhere on my Az claim....as well as North & South line posts every 100 yds, and I still get constant intrusions. Here in AZ the following applies:

In Arizona a mining claim is considered REAL PROPERTY

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:

4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.

I have this written down on paper that I can hand it to a trespasser.

Calling the sheriff will not get a response, but getting the individuals' license plate number and then later filing a complaint will begin the process of a civil action. I like the trespasser to see that I am getting information (license plate number.....his description and date and time) and I like the trespasser to hear my phone conversation to the sheriff's office when I am reporting the incident and informing the sheriff's office that I intend to file a formal complaint. This sets the lawful tone of what is going to happen.

I have never had such a mineral trespass encounter individual result in the person NOT LEAVING. They always leave immediately.

Check the law language where you are located and see if you have something similar.

Bejay

 

[Lanny in AB]

I'm glad I don't have to walk in your shoes.

What a nasty, unwanted thing to have to deal with. You've been given some good advice. Mine that advice for what it's worth.

I've had guns pointed at me before while out prospecting, and we weren't trespassing. We had the claim owners' permission, but the squatters were protecting their ground! How's that for crazy?

There's just something about gold that makes people do insane things. Like, people that get denied access come back and shoot up vehicles or ruin equipment in other ways just to get even. They set fire to buildings. You can't make this stuff up. I've seen it. It's ugly, and it happens.

No gold is worth getting shot over, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.

Be firm. Be fair. Be smart. Be alive to enjoy your claim.

You'll figure it out as you sift your way through all of the advice at your disposal.

All the best,

Lanny

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting-gold/69-bedrock-gold-mysteries.html

 

[Jeff95531]

Too true Lanny. I once had someone kick me in the shoulder (I was on a solo trip and in my sleeping bag) so he could show me the business end of a Colt 45. I was camping and he thought I was claim jumping. If I hadn't known him through my dad, I'm not sure how it all would have gone down.

 

[MadMarshall]

When reading this post I find myself wondering is it a solution your looking for? or Justification? Anyway People seem to eager to hurt people. My advice is to your friend is : get rid of his gun until he responsable enough to use it before he gets himself killed or kills someone..

 

[2cmorau]

even a placer claim is for the most part Private Property, i do pay property TAXES
I catch people on my claims all the time, more so now cuz of my recent move
due to the circumstances some are only a part of, i ask all that i come across, "do U have a PLP card " <------- DON'T CARE IF THE MAY OUTCOME IS WHAT IT IS, BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION.

 

[Hoser John]

As always a picture/video is worth a 1,000 words. Citizens arrest laws I carry laminated in my legal pac I carry in my truck. Hence any force used must be in direct accordance to resistance. I much prefer my lil'ol' 300,000 v taser over my numerous weapons. At least you get a good laugh as they flop around like a fish outta water. Hygrading has become a art since that stinkn' Lost Dutchmen perfected the art of theft. Felony mineral tresspass/theft is no laughing matter in federal court system. Detector holes all over as newbie idjets don't refill minefield holes that will break a leg so be careful out there as already a banner year for theft here in Northern Kalif-John

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

Patented land can have fences put up