colonial coin pocket spill

[leddel]

well upon request from a few good people i decided to post a colonial copper coin spill i found two saturdays ago . this was found at a cellar site that been detected many time by others and was my second time there .

anyway after a several hours at another spot my buddy and i decided to hit one more site before calling it quits for the day . i hinted at this place as it had alot of area and we were only there one other time and it was very close by.

it was a big center chimney colonial and we found a few buttons last time , well we split up and i was detecting basically alone for about an hour and a half. i started working an area slowly when i got a great high coin sounding target at around 6 inches i was really thinking a nice silver piece and out popped this

i was very excited to see these , but by their dark color i just knew there was morein the hole

three more coppers proved me right , wow now i was really floored .
unable to see what they were because of the thick corrosion but they were large coins and i just assumed they were matron head type large cents. later i found out i was wrong and learned that they were a King George III copper , a New Jersey copper and 4 fugio pennies . a real colonial coin spill and my largest multiple coppers in one hole .

heres what they looked like when they got home

the next job was trying to i.d. the varieties and then tackling the job of cleaning them. well after almost two weeks they are nearly there .

heres a some pictures of them individually
the 1774 King George III

the 1788 New Jersey copper

a clubed ray fugio

another fugio

third fugio

last fugio

if any one can tell the varieties as i'm a little confused on two of the fugios it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks all for the nice comments on the other forums .

Dan

 

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[Iron Patch]

I have not asked any of the Fugio experts I know, but just comparing the 3 reverses, I would have to say the N reverse is a match and the obverse is not a 16 so it should be a 13-N variety, but Fugio's are not my cup of tea for IDing, but sure looks like a match to me. I did put Dan's coin in one photo sandwiched between a N and a X sample for others to compare.

Don

The find should be banner but the vast majority of the photos are from photobucket which does not qualify for banner, one photo is not but I believe a nice squared photo of the finds both dirty and cleaned would possibly do the trick. But regardless, it is a banner find in my mind.

thanks Don for the side by side pictures , hey why is there so little info on the 13-N . they don't even give a rariety on coin facts and virtually no idea on a value. i did put a couple of regular photos on the first post s hopefully now it can be apart of the banner .

Dan

The Whitman book gives it a URS rating, but I looked at C4 auction catalogs and the last 13-N I saw was listed as a R7 as CC stated. The one in the catalog was holed and counterstamped, don't have the going price available at this time for that particular one. It was in 2009 I believe, so rather recent.

When searching for the 13-N I did come across that stamped one and the description was very favorable for the variety. I'm actually surprised it's not rarer. (maybe it's a mid. 7)

 

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[Bramblefind]

In the Rosa Americana, LTD Autumn 2010 they have listed this example selling for $1,899.00 and a long description that I don't know if I can get here so it is able to be read-

 

[Iron Patch]

In the Rosa Americana, LTD Autumn 2010 they have listed this example selling for $1,899.00 and a long description that I don't know if I can get here so it is able to be read-

Pretty funny because that's who I talk to often and contacted for an ID. So I guess confirmation is not too far away.


Coins missing from the Ford collection is always a very good selling point.

 

[Bramblefind]

In the Rosa Americana, LTD Autumn 2010 they have listed this example selling for $1,899.00 and a long description that I don't know if I can get here so it is able to be read-

Pretty funny because that's who I talk to often and contacted for an ID. So I guess confirmation is not too far away.


Coins missing from the Ford collection is always a very good selling point.

Let them know I said their catalog is super helpful

 

[N.J.THer]

Wow...that was a dream hunt..congrats.

NJ

 

[jjg70]

that is an awesome find!!! Can I ask how you cleaned them, they look great

 

[Iron Patch]

This is from Rosa Americana LTD. (13-N sale shown above)


First message...

"If you can get a pic of the reverse to me, I will be able to let you know, as I have a ton of data on Fugios. Ironically, if it's a ground find it is actually more likely to be a 13-N, as the vast majority of 13-X were hoard coins and not circulated! But some did, of course, so it could go either way."


Follow up.



"13-N it is, The main pickup points are gone, but the one main one that is left is the space between the R and of ARE -- on the X reverse they are much closer than on the N. This should do well!"

PS... I also sent him the others to confirm what was suggested, and maybe take a stab at the last one no one has touched yet.


I think your banner supporters will break through soon. (I don't pay attention to it anymore)

 

[leddel]

I have not asked any of the Fugio experts I know, but just comparing the 3 reverses, I would have to say the N reverse is a match and the obverse is not a 16 so it should be a 13-N variety, but Fugio's are not my cup of tea for IDing, but sure looks like a match to me. I did put Dan's coin in one photo sandwiched between a N and a X sample for others to compare.

Don

The find should be banner but the vast majority of the photos are from photobucket which does not qualify for banner, one photo is not but I believe a nice squared photo of the finds both dirty and cleaned would possibly do the trick. But regardless, it is a banner find in my mind.

thanks Don for the side by side pictures , hey why is there so little info on the 13-N . they don't even give a rariety on coin facts and virtually no idea on a value. i did put a couple of regular photos on the first post s hopefully now it can be apart of the banner .

Dan

The Whitman book gives it a URS rating, but I looked at C4 auction catalogs and the last 13-N I saw was listed as a R7 as CC stated. The one in the catalog was holed and counterstamped, don't have the going price available at this time for that particular one. It was in 2009 I believe, so rather recent.

thanks Don

In the Rosa Americana, LTD Autumn 2010 they have listed this example selling for $1,899.00 and a long description that I don't know if I can get here so it is able to be read-

and thank you Bramblefind

This is from Rosa Americana LTD. (13-N sale shown above)


First message...

"If you can get a pic of the reverse to me, I will be able to let you know, as I have a ton of data on Fugios. Ironically, if it's a ground find it is actually more likely to be a 13-N, as the vast majority of 13-X were hoard coins and not circulated! But some did, of course, so it could go either way."


Follow up.



"13-N it is, The main pickup points are gone, but the one main one that is left is the space between the R and of ARE -- on the X reverse they are much closer than on the N. This should do well!"

PS... I also sent him the others to confirm what was suggested, and maybe take a stab at the last one no one has touched yet.


I think your banner supporters will break through soon. (I don't pay attention to it anymore)

hey Patch that is good news your the man i'm very greatful to you

Dan

 

[Iron Patch]

You did it all Dan, even posting that 13-N reverse... and a good thing you did. It would be crazy to assume an ID so you did the right thing by continuing to look. (and I bet you spent more time ID'ing them than detecting that day, or at least close) You know on a good day your little pile of coins could be worth 3k or better. Not bad for a day's digging!

 

[hogge]

I'm happy for you Dan! 2 rare coins in a 6 coin spill.....and still one more to be ID'ed. Those Fugios are a pain to ID. Hogge

 

[Deepdiger60]

If anything this is a good learning experience seeing the difference i hope for the finder it is a very rare find and it should go up on the Banner it has my vote
Jim

 

[Don in SJ]

Just to add on the 13-N one, which is THE find out of those 6 coppers that I had a confirmation last evening also on it being the N reverse, but I really had no doubt after finally looking at the photos and then doing the side by side comparison which did eliminate the X variety. Yes, Fugio's are a pain, especially ground found ones, but great details in the right places makes it easier.

Don

 

[Tobias]

I have not asked any of the Fugio experts I know, but just comparing the 3 reverses, I would have to say the N reverse is a match and the obverse is not a 16 so it should be a 13-N variety, but Fugio's are not my cup of tea for IDing, but sure looks like a match to me. I did put Dan's coin in one photo sandwiched between a N and a X sample for others to compare.

Don

The find should be banner but the vast majority of the photos are from photobucket which does not qualify for banner, one photo is not but I believe a nice squared photo of the finds both dirty and cleaned would possibly do the trick. But regardless, it is a banner find in my mind.

Great picture. Considering the horizontal alignment of the "R" in ARE vs that of the "N" in ONE, I think it is very clear that it is not an X var.

Congratulations on a stupendous find

 

[leddel]

heres a link to a N.13-N on ebay , boy it is beat and they still want $1,500 for
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1787-Fugio-...=300462009242&ps=63&clkid=2495949531078907546

 

[Iron Patch]

Great find, and that ain't no reg George copper. Looks like Machin's Mills Vlack 7-74A Very Rare

Talk about fun digging those and getting to ID them!

YES! That is a Machin Mills! The triangular denticles give it away. AND WOW....what DETAIL!!!! This post belongs UP TOP!!!!!!!!!

I deleted my post, because I wanted a few more minutes to make sure. It definitely looks like an MM but I thought I looked at all three 1774s and eliminated all three. Going to look again.

that quite alright Patch
it looks like a possible Vlack 3-74A to me .

They're all good coins but you might have a real keeper in the mix.

I guess that turned out to be the case didn't it.

 

[leddel]

Great find, and that ain't no reg George copper. Looks like Machin's Mills Vlack 7-74A Very Rare

Talk about fun digging those and getting to ID them!

YES! That is a Machin Mills! The triangular denticles give it away. AND WOW....what DETAIL!!!! This post belongs UP TOP!!!!!!!!!

I deleted my post, because I wanted a few more minutes to make sure. It definitely looks like an MM but I thought I looked at all three 1774s and eliminated all three. Going to look again.

that quite alright Patch
it looks like a possible Vlack 3-74A to me .

They're all good coins but you might have a real keeper in the mix.

I guess that turned out to be the case didn't it.

yes your infinate wisdom is awe inspiring Patch

i'm going out on a limb to say the last fugio obverse is a Newman 9-? anyone

 

[Iron Patch]

Great find, and that ain't no reg George copper. Looks like Machin's Mills Vlack 7-74A Very Rare

Talk about fun digging those and getting to ID them!

YES! That is a Machin Mills! The triangular denticles give it away. AND WOW....what DETAIL!!!! This post belongs UP TOP!!!!!!!!!

I deleted my post, because I wanted a few more minutes to make sure. It definitely looks like an MM but I thought I looked at all three 1774s and eliminated all three. Going to look again.

that quite alright Patch
it looks like a possible Vlack 3-74A to me .

They're all good coins but you might have a real keeper in the mix.

I guess that turned out to be the case didn't it.

yes your infinate wisdom is awe inspiring Patch

i'm going out on a limb to say the last fugio obverse is a Newman 9-? anyone

You're trying to bait me in aren't you?

 

[Don in SJ]

Hard to say for sure from the photos, but possible 9-T? IP's turn

 

[Iron Patch]

Hard to say for sure from the photos, but possible 9-T? IP's turn

Right now my brain is too fried to try and compare those... it's hard enough on a good day!

The dealer has those pictures and being on the west coast he often writes me late so there's still a chance he'll chime in. I believe he said he's taking off soon so it's also possible he won't have a time.

 

[Iron Patch]

ok, I had to play. If it's a 9, I think 9-P. It's the only one with the W that dips. At least I think it does.