Cygnus-1X Metal Detector

[cudamark]

Will it be for sale this year? Or is that something you are not supposed to answer?

It's something we just don't know. We hope to have it as soon as possible as we are all little kids waiting for Christmas morning, but, it takes time to work out all the design and manufacturing details.

 

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[Coinboy]

Any updates?

 

[vferrari]

Are we supposed to infer something from the "AviTech Associate" sigs disappearing, continued lack of a website presence or even cartoon level info, the abrupt change in plans from tester pre-prod videos in Jan/Feb to post 1000 unit production pics/reviews, and the radio silence just ahead of the hyped up tentative March/Spring 2020 Cygnus launch?? This is starting to look like something is more seriously amiss than just typical growing pain type delays.

An update, of substance, would be greatly appreciated. Credibility is a fragile commodity and can erode fairly easily. The response to this post (or lack thereof) will speak volumes. Transparency vs. defensiveness and deflection would be welcome at this point. Not asking to betray intellectual property, so we get it already regarding patents, trademarks and NDAs, just throw us a bone or two.

We are rooting for a game changing new kid in town as conventional induction-based metal detecting tech has pretty much hit a wall as far as innovation is concerned. Don't disappoint us!

Oh, btw, no pressure...

 

[Jason in Enid]

Are we supposed to infer something from the "AviTech Associate" sigs disappearing, continued lack of a website presence or even cartoon level info, ......

LOL, I hope none of those "future distributors" werent kicking in $$$$ for this thing before there was a physical item. Good catch on the disappearing sigs. I hadnt caught that yet.

 

[signal_line]

Maybe it is a suppressed invention. You know, some big MD company bought the thing and shelved it.

 

[smallfoot]

Too much hype, not enough tripe..

 

[chub]

I can 110% say that if what we have planned is even half of what is hoped- it is literally Sci-fi movie, beyond imagination.

Does it beam the target up Scotty?

chub

 

[docweiser]

Let's not forget the predicate by which the Cygnus project was conceived. Private funding was expected back in November but only just recently was acquired. The first 1000 units will be available once the internal testing is complete to satisfaction. Field testers will have machines just prior to release to the public.


As far as I know all of the original associates are still on board and signatures were never a requirement. Management doesn't really see a need for videos (commercials) as this venture is not about making money, it is about making a bunch of detectorists happy, achieving that and paying for the operation is how success will be measured.


We are not trying to "sell" anyone so the end product will not be the result of any pressure and will speak for itself. As the lead designer and investor I am very happy with how the project is proceeding.


Those that are interested will Stay Tuned and I believe they will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[signal_line]

Thanks for the info, docweiser. Nice to get an update once in a while. I still have my locator project going and hope someday I could get you interested in it. It ignores aluminum and can detect gold inside a cast iron stove.

 

[chub]

and can detect gold inside a cast iron stove.

This is my dream. I'm so sick of checking all the cast iron stoves manually

chub

 

[vferrari]

Let's not forget the predicate by which the Cygnus project was conceived. Private funding was expected back in November but only just recently was acquired. The first 1000 units will be available once the internal testing is complete to satisfaction. Field testers will have machines just prior to release to the public.


As far as I know all of the original associates are still on board and signatures were never a requirement. Management doesn't really see a need for videos (commercials) as this venture is not about making money, it is about making a bunch of detectorists happy, achieving that and paying for the operation is how success will be measured.


We are not trying to "sell" anyone so the end product will not be the result of any pressure and will speak for itself. As the lead designer and investor I am very happy with how the project is proceeding.


Those that are interested will Stay Tuned and I believe they will be pleasantly surprised.

Doc thanks for the update. There were other update requests and they were just sitting there for days, then I saw the "Associate" sigs disappear so it was weird that there was radio silence so I thought I would chime in.

Anyway, I notice that you are now just remaining silent on timelines. Probably wise, but now it seems there is even less information than before vice more. Unfortunate about the funding slips, though not unexpected, because now it looks like you might miss some key promotion opportunities on the east coast as some rather large paid group relic hunts kick-off in late March. Spring is a key relic hunting time. It is short lived as it usually peters out after spring plantings in the fields and before the weather starts to heat up. Would have been nice to have a presence at the gathering as Garrett and Minelab usually send reps. Oh, well.

Also, I find it odd that you are committing to production (1000 units) before you have even received feedback from your TNET real world field testers. In house testing is great and all but team bias tends to skew the results away from objectivity, based on my experience. Seems to me, that you would want to factor your Tnet tester feedback into the design prior to locking the design down before production. Care to comment on that?

Don't really understand why "management" put the kibosh on videos since my understanding was that you were basically going to get them produced at little to no cost by one of your testers as you stated in the OP. C'est la vie.

Anyway, good luck to your Cygnus team. Hope to see something "real" soon.

Thanks.

 

[signal_line]

This is my dream. I'm so sick of checking all the cast iron stoves manually

chub

Yeah, usually I am quite blunt and tell people off. I am resisting here because I know what I got and really don't care much what anyones says about it. But maybe some people are intelligent enough to extrapolate here and see how iron masking has been solved. Aluminum, too. I understand most people are unable to comprehend this, don't believe it, ridicule this. I've been slow-playing this and some day I'll put out a video and get the fire started.

Anyway, not trying to hijack this thread. I think docweiser is somebody who could help me with the Contraption project. Got his hands full so maybe some time down the road.

 

[docweiser]

Doc thanks for the update. There were other update requests and they were just sitting there for days, then I saw the "Associate" sigs disappear so it was weird that there was radio silence so I thought I would chime in.

Anyway, I notice that you are now just remaining silent on timelines. Probably wise, but now it seems there is even less information than before vice more. Unfortunate about the funding slips, though not unexpected, because now it looks like you might miss some key promotion opportunities on the east coast as some rather large paid group relic hunts kick-off in late March. Spring is a key relic hunting time. It is short lived as it usually peters out after spring plantings in the fields and before the weather starts to heat up. Would have been nice to have a presence at the gathering as Garrett and Minelab usually send reps. Oh, well.

Also, I find it odd that you are committing to production (1000 units) before you have even received feedback from your TNET real world field testers. In house testing is great and all but team bias tends to skew the results away from objectivity, based on my experience. Seems to me, that you would want to factor your Tnet tester feedback into the design prior to locking the design down before production. Care to comment on that?

Don't really understand why "management" put the kibosh on videos since my understanding was that you were basically going to get them produced at little to no cost by one of your testers as you stated in the OP. C'est la vie.

Anyway, good luck to your Cygnus team. Hope to see something "real" soon.

Thanks.

It's all very simple - we don't care if we sell 1000 or 20,000 - it's about making something better, that costs less and makes people happy. If the machine is good enough that there is a huge demand for it there is a plan in place to address that.

Until people can bang the concept in their head that this is not your normal "business" venture you will never understand it.

When the testers (all quality people) are let go to post testing results along with video's if they choose, people here IN THIS FORUM will see what the so called hype is about.

Revealing any other information before that day comes is just foolish. When the testers post those that read their posts will want one - let's put it this way - it can't possibly be any worse than the best machine you can buy today, that's a fact.

Patience....I am an old guy giving back to the community and as one of our testers said to me "I am helping with the Cygnus project because seeing the joy on others faces when they make that find, is what I cherish" - let that sink in along with the first line in this post and it may start to make sense.

I will make a sincere effort to make more frequent updates.

Signal - PM me if you are serious about something, I will look at it with an open mind and give you an honest opinion.

 

[vferrari]

It's all very simple - we don't care if we sell 1000 or 20,000 - it's about making something better, that costs less and makes people happy. If the machine is good enough that there is a huge demand for it there is a plan in place to address that.

Until people can bang the concept in their head that this is not your normal "business" venture you will never understand it.

When the testers (all quality people) are let go to post testing results along with video's if they choose, people here IN THIS FORUM will see what the so called hype is about.

Revealing any other information before that day comes is just foolish. When the testers post those that read their posts will want one - let's put it this way - it can't possibly be any worse than the best machine you can buy today, that's a fact.

Patience....I am an old guy giving back to the community and as one of our testers said to me "I am helping with the Cygnus project because seeing the joy on others faces when they make that find, is what I cherish" - let that sink in along with the first line in this post and it may start to make sense.

I will make a sincere effort to make more frequent updates.

Signal - PM me if you are serious about something, I will look at it with an open mind and give you an honest opinion.

Doc - you ignored the key point of my question completely.

I wasn't talking about sales and frankly couldn't care less either whether or not you turn a profit or are profit driven, so feel free to ignore my comments on promotion opportunities, that was not the focus of my post.

My point was that you have designated your TNET associates as "testers" yet they are not going to even get their hands on a unit to test until JUST BEFORE you have committed to production of over 1000 units (your statement). I may be dense, but when someone is designated as a tester, that means they are using the unit, presumably in a pre-production iteration, and then providing feedback, presumably to address technical issues or to suggest improvements that can be factored into the unit. How does that work if you are already locking down the design for mass production? Are your "Associates" merely reviewers then, just giving their thoughts about your delivered product for the benefit of future users or are they an integral part of the design team? I get that you can probably address some issues through firmware updates and the like, but sometimes the mechanical packaging or user interface is flawed and that affects the production line, so if you have to change that up, will that result in additional delays?

As I stated previously, I don't want you to betray your IP, so that is why I am steering clear of asking about the unit itself and focusing on what you have said about how the machine will be brought to market and there just appear to be some inconsistencies and perhaps minor concerns from my vantage point that could hinder having a successful product roll out. That's my only concern. I don't really expect an answer at this point based your response MO regarding extreme secrecy, but if anything I am saying can help you think about potential flaws in your run up to production preventing delays, that's why I am putting it out there. I just want your game changing machine to be ready for prime time. Thanks and good luck.

 

[Inspector Comet]

Yeah, usually I am quite blunt and tell people off. I am resisting here because I know what I got and really don't care much what anyones says about it. But maybe some people are intelligent enough to extrapolate here and see how iron masking has been solved. Aluminum, too. I understand most people are unable to comprehend this, don't believe it, ridicule this. I've been slow-playing this and some day I'll put out a video and get the fire started.

Anyway, not trying to hijack this thread. I think docweiser is somebody who could help me with the Contraption project. Got his hands full so maybe some time down the road.

I took chub's post as just poking fun at your analogy of gold in a stove, rather than actually trying to challenge your ideas. To me it doesn't seem like there's anything to be defensive about, though if a lot of people have ridiculed the idea then I'd probably be defensive too. Anyway, I guess I took that comment as more playful than anything else. Too often these things devolve into big arguments. Hope there's no need for one here.

 

[A2coins]

I wish you well and I appreciate that you are doing this for people in the Hobby. Admirable Im excited to see what you come up with. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making this. I know why you are doing this not money but to give back to the Hobby I dont put any Expectations on you or Demands but I support your efforts and if something good comes from it or not its a great thing your doing. Tommy

 

[IDXMonster]

“It can’t be any worse than the best machine out there today....that’s a fact”. If I’m understanding that statement correctly and it is meant to be interpreted at face value, that’s quite a statement. This is saying that this new “mystery machine” will ID coins better in general than a CTX3030? Is this something that’s been tested/compared/confirmed? This is going to trump EVERYTHING out there? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, I hope to see that one day. To ME, because it is SO far out there...I’m a complete skeptic, and as a “scientifically minded” person, it’s hard for me to accept spoken word over the scientific process. I hope someone has stumbled upon the “hidden key”, it’s just not likely with ALL of the electronics engineers and physicists already having had a crack at science as we know it.

 

[MetalArchSC]

I prefer to hope for the best, cheer the guy on and have fun while I’m waiting. It’s none of my business how he wants to market/promote/ produce his machine.
Frankly I don’t care who’s going to test it /when/ if ...updates or not. It’s not like we never had to wait on something before in this hobby.

If this machine turns out to be all that and a bag of chips, Im going to feel much better about myself knowing I cheered him on rather than trying to swallow my own foot because of impatience or skepticism.

The proof is in the pudding ... we have to wait. It would be nice to see a machine that has it all... don’t care how long it takes.

As a matter of fact, take all the time you need to get it right.

 

[docweiser]

Doc - you ignored the key point of my question completely.

I wasn't talking about sales and frankly couldn't care less either whether or not you turn a profit or are profit driven, so feel free to ignore my comments on promotion opportunities, that was not the focus of my post.

My point was that you have designated your TNET associates as "testers" yet they are not going to even get their hands on a unit to test until JUST BEFORE you have committed to production of over 1000 units (your statement). I may be dense, but when someone is designated as a tester, that means they are using the unit, presumably in a pre-production iteration, and then providing feedback, presumably to address technical issues or to suggest improvements that can be factored into the unit. How does that work if you are already locking down the design for mass production? Are your "Associates" merely reviewers then, just giving their thoughts about your delivered product for the benefit of future users or are they an integral part of the design team? I get that you can probably address some issues through firmware updates and the like, but sometimes the mechanical packaging or user interface is flawed and that affects the production line, so if you have to change that up, will that result in additional delays?

As I stated previously, I don't want you to betray your IP, so that is why I am steering clear of asking about the unit itself and focusing on what you have said about how the machine will be brought to market and there just appear to be some inconsistencies and perhaps minor concerns from my vantage point that could hinder having a successful product roll out. That's my only concern. I don't really expect an answer at this point based your response MO regarding extreme secrecy, but if anything I am saying can help you think about potential flaws in your run up to production preventing delays, that's why I am putting it out there. I just want your game changing machine to be ready for prime time. Thanks and good luck.

Thanks very much for your concerns. Try not to worry so much it's bad for the blood pressure, believe me I know There is a plan for everything but of course something could always go wrong, this is not my first rodeo except for the mass production piece which from where I stand is completely under control. Besides the punch list of production requirements there is also a rather long punch list of electronic tests and calibrations to be performed, they begin in days not months.

We have a great team of dedicated people helping too, and if I am reading right, it sounds like you are asking about internal FT's (field testers) assignments. If individual FT's wish to discuss their assignments within the scope of the NDA's that is their business but assignment categories have not been chosen yet nor has individual responsibilities as internal testing will happen first. Test parameters for them have not been completely defined yet though much of the physical requirements (including durability & waterproofing) are set in stone after much debate.

As internal testing is checked off, FT testing parameters will be completed and assigned. Our design methodology is such that ANY electronic change required that slips through initial testing can be done with relative ease up to and including plugging a part into a socket put there just in case for even 1000 units.

Also, some of our FT's that possess various skills will receive pre-production machines based on need and the passing of AviTech internal requirements.

Hope that helps with your question(s) though it sounds more like a labor union dispute to me. Read my signature

PS: I think we have a contingency plan for every single piece of the machine, literally.

 

[vferrari]

Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail. We may be talking past each other a bit due to nomenclature of the internal FT's, which I take to be separate from your "in house" qualification testing team, but it sounds like you got the gist of what I was asking and have the potential concerns covered, so I'll let it go at that. Good luck, can't wait to see what your team comes up with.