Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

[capt dom]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Following your logic whatever Charles Mansion absconded with
after he bludgeoned all of his victims should belong to him as well...

based of course on the concept of manifest destiny....

Study your history books.... it wasn't Spain back then....
It was the Spains and an Austrian / Swiss dynasty called the Hapsburg Family
the equivileent to the 16th and 17th century mob ran, it along with some
other earlier facists - The house of Trade....

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

JUST AS "VALID" OF A QUESTION---- DID SPAIN RETURN THE SILVER AND GOLD USED TO MAKE THOSE COINS THAT IT EXPLOITED VIA SLAVE LABOR FROM SOUTH AMERICA? --TO THE ALL PLACES IT GOT IT FROM --? WHAT MAKES ONE THEFT / EXPOLITATION BY SPAIN OK AND LEGAL -- BUT ANOTHER RECOVERY / THEFT BY SALVORS NOT SO? HUMM

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Capt Dom,
Since Spain claimed the ship was on commercial duty and they were not responsible for compensation and the claimants had to go after Great Britain, I really do wonder who owns the coins- again if it is even the Mercedes…

Well Capt Dom I guess that takes us back to the old adage of conspire to kill 7 people got to jail for murder, blow up and capture another nation’s ships and become a dynasty!

 

[capt dom]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

My Stupid too!
I finally realized there were two pages of replies to this post!

I guess that is what happens when you have too many beers at lunch!

 

[capt dom]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

JUST AS "VALID" OF A QUESTION---- DID SPAIN RETURN THE SILVER AND GOLD USED TO MAKE THOSE COINS THAT IT EXPLOITED VIA SLAVE LABOR FROM SOUTH AMERICA? --TO THE ALL PLACES IT GOT IT FROM --? WHAT MAKES ONE THEFT / EXPOLITATION BY SPAIN OK AND LEGAL -- BUT ANOTHER RECOVERY / THEFT BY SALVORS NOT SO? HUMM

Because the rats are guarding the cheese me boy.... arhg....

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I guess that is what happens when you have too many beers as lunch!

Is that possible?

 

[gord]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

I guess that is what happens when you have too many beers as lunch!

Is that possible?

No, it's not - when the count for lunch gets too high, you know you have started on dinner.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Did the United States of America return all the silver and gold it used to make coins that it exploited via slave labor?

What exactly does that have to do with the subject of the thread?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

JUST AS "VALID" OF A QUESTION---- DID SPAIN RETURN THE SILVER AND GOLD USED TO MAKE THOSE COINS THAT IT EXPLOITED VIA SLAVE LABOR FROM SOUTH AMERICA? --TO THE ALL PLACES IT GOT IT FROM --? WHAT MAKES ONE THEFT / EXPOLITATION BY SPAIN OK AND LEGAL -- BUT ANOTHER RECOVERY / THEFT BY SALVORS NOT SO? HUMM

Jesus Christ. Here we go again.

Did the United States of America return all the silver and gold it used to make coins that it exploited via slave labor?

Seriously... learn some history before spouting such nonsense.

Just how did the USA use slave labor to aquire silver and gold since there was no income tax at the time, and slaves were not taxed how was the USA receiving gold and silver via slave labor to make coins?

But, if that is the way your trying to go, the death of over 360,000 Union Soldiers and the cost of the Civil War to the North was $6,190,000,000…That is the cost only to the North, does not include the South, on top of that add by 1906 another $3.3 billion spent by the U.S. government on Northerners' pensions and other veterans' benefits for former Federal soldiers, a total of over $9 Billion.......

 

[mrmagoo560]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Spain has no more of a claim to the gold than Germany does to the gold stolen by Nazis during WWII......

Exactly.

True what you say about the U.S. but we never inslaved the indians and made them mine gold and silver to send back home.We didn't kill off an entire civilation like the Maya and Aztec like the spanish.They were by far the worst in that reguard.They came to these lands with the sole purpose of taking all they could and converting everybody to their religious beliefs and if the people didn't convert they were killed on the spot.The gold in question doesnot belong to Spain and never did,They STOLE it!!!! Therefore they have no legal claim to it,Sure give them the ships it was transported on but not the stolen property tey were transporting!

Following this philosophy, U.S. must return the oil of Iraq and the Indian lands of the far west. In addition to the copper business in Chile, etc. etc. and the story would never end.
I forgot: Spain will have to return Olivença to Portugal and the UK, Gibraltar to Spain. In turn, Rome reclaim his possessions in Iberia, France, etc. Greece, Sicily and the Phoenician Cadiz. Canari Indians of Ecuador to the Incas of Cuzco. Please Be consistent. The history of all conquests is full of blood, slavery and abuse. Not excludes the U.S. in the last 200 years.
VV

 

[mrmagoo560]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The bottom line is that private interests find & recover these treasures.

Governments do nothing but create red tape, and empires for power tripping bureaucrats.



All the stuff ever found on the seabed would still be there if it was left up to governments.

Read this statement:

"The big fish get eat the little fish". This true always has been present in the history of the human kind.

1. Spain conquered almost the whole American continent, from Florida and California up to Argentina, since 1492 to 1800's. They committed, genocide against the Maya, Aztecs, Incas everything for the gold. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal.

2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America.

3. United State of America declared the war against Spain in 1898. The American troops took as Military booty to Philippine, Guam, Cuba and Puerto Rico. They never acted with democracy in front these countries. They took them and period. If some of those countries decided to keep them as territories of the United Stated(Guam and Puerto Rico) it's another story. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories is legal.

So, all treasure brought from South America to Spain during the period of the colonization and it was lost in the bottom of the sea, all of them, belong to Spain, Spain is the legitimate owner. Did they steel archaeological treasures? Yes, they did it and today, they keep steeling treasure, this time as Archaeologist and putting them in a foreigner Museum.

That it is.

So you're saying the United States "" committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890”

Well that explains why you have a skewed view of history..

Could you point me to some reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s?

Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal.

You said "Conquering a country doesn’t make crimes against humanity legal."

Are you asking me? or are you telling me something? I don't going to point out some reading material of the 1600 because this topic is about the return of the 500M coins to Spain from Odyssey but if you're not happy with my respond, go and ask to your mom or dad why US celebrate the Thanksgiving day every year and the answer that they give you will be a reading material of the United States of America history of the 1600’s.

Thanksgiving was spent eating WITH the indians not wiping them off the planet like Spain did with the indians they encountered when they arrived.They did all they could to wipe out anybody they couldn't convert to the Catholic church.The U.S. did NOT wipe out the indians,we were at war yes,but did NOT commit genicide on them like the Spanish did.
If you want the gold stored in Florida feel free to come here and try to get it.

 

[Trembull]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Thanksgiving was spent eating WITH the indians not wiping them off the planet like Spain did with the indians they encountered when they arrived.They did all they could to wipe out anybody they couldn't convert to the Catholic church.The U.S. did NOT wipe out the indians,we were at war yes,but did NOT commit genicide on them like the Spanish did.
If you want the gold stored in Florida feel free to come here and try to get it.
[/quote]


Maybe this is what he wants, But the gold stays in Florida..
Been here for 300 years, it will hold up for another 300 in or out of water!!

 

[mrmagoo560]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

architecad, no as a matter of fact you wrote very specifically

"2. United Stated conquered the Native American territories. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?. After that, everything that they did in those conquered territories was legal. They founded the United Stated of America."

I'll even forgo the misspelling “United Stated” and assume that you specifically meant the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. They committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600 to 1890?

So why of course would anyone that understands English think that you actually didn’t mean the United States of America committed genocide and wars against those ethnic groups since 1600?

Now it’s ok if you want to retract that statement and now reference a more generalization of the people who actually committed those atrocious but have the common decency to admit you were wrong originally and are now just making big waves to cover yourself.

Since you seem so keen on “telling me where to learn history” I’ll give you once again a quick history lesson that you can reference in the future.

The United States of America didn’t exist prior to 1776 therefore they could not have participated in any events of history during the 1600’s.

It’s really that simple.

Ok. Au. What is the issue with you? Apparently you're taking this issue literally. I will resume what I meant to see if you understand.

The Anglo or the people that came from Europe, whose lived before United State was founded, whose founded United State of America, and all generations after that, during the period of 1600 and 1800, they pursued his ambition to get the west, they fought against the native American ethnic group in order to own the land of all natives. In that time, they committed atrocities, killing, wars and genocide. I didn't say the Government of the United State of America, as institution, between 1600 to 1800 committed bla, bla, bla,!!!

You know what I'm talking about but you're of those guys that like to "torture" the words of somebody when they see is losing an argument. Also, you're like those blind guy that argue and argue in front the fact, in front the history. If you lost, you lost. period. You remember me a guy that he never accept that David Crockett (?) was killed during the battle of the Alamo. I saw that argument in Discovery channel during a documentary about the fact found over that battle. The documentary shown teachers and researcher about history with evidence that battle where supposedly the explorer- David C. was caught as prisoner and later shot to die. This guy argued how is possible that an American idol, a hero has been executed. Your words remind me that guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett

Arch

You are so wrong! The white man went west and the indians didn't want to share the land so war started,all the white man wanted was ti expand and share this vast country.It was not genecide,we didn't try to wipe them out just because they believed in diferent things and gods.We just wanted to share the land.The Spanish in the other hand didn't want anybody alive that didn't believe the same way they did.That WAS genecide.

 

[alpha105]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Bottom line is whoever finds gold, that was left behind and considerably abandoned, deserves the rights to keep it. You want gold spain? Go find it....theres tons out there for whoever wants to put in the work. But dont complain because u didnt bother searching for what u lost....

 

[mrmagoo560]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Bottom line is whoever finds gold, that was left behind and considerably abandoned, deserves the rights to keep it. You want gold spain? Go find it....theres tons out there for whoever wants to put in the work. But dont complain because u didnt bother searching for what u lost....

Exactly!!!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You are so wrong! The white man went west and the indians didn't want to share the land so war started,all the white man wanted was ti expand and share this vast country.It was not genecide,we didn't try to wipe them out just because they believed in diferent things and gods.We just wanted to share the land.The Spanish in the other hand didn't want anybody alive that didn't believe the same way they did.That WAS genecide.

Soooo, what do you supposed happened to those Indians that lived on the East Coast? You know, the Indians that helped the Pilgrims survive and the whole Thanksgiving gimmick?

You know those Indians...the ones the white man sent out West and then stole that land, too?

A large part of the early tribes migrated west to get away from the invaders who landed on the south and east coast, starting in 1492......The Spanish, Portuguese, English, French invaders, you know, the ones your talking about, the ones who started the genocide of the inhabitants of the Americas 284 years before America even became a country......

Territories in the Americas colonized or claimed by a European great power in 1750.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You are so wrong! The white man went west and the indians didn't want to share the land so war started,all the white man wanted was ti expand and share this vast country.It was not genecide,we didn't try to wipe them out just because they believed in diferent things and gods.We just wanted to share the land.The Spanish in the other hand didn't want anybody alive that didn't believe the same way they did.That WAS genecide.

Soooo, what do you supposed happened to those Indians that lived on the East Coast? You know, the Indians that helped the Pilgrims survive and the whole Thanksgiving gimmick?

You know those Indians...the ones the white man sent out West and then stole that land, too?

A large part of the early tribes migrated west to get away from the invaders who landed on the south and east coast, starting in 1492......The Spanish, Portuguese, English, French invaders, you know, the ones your talking about, the ones who started the genocide of the inhabitants of the Americas 284 years before America even became a country......

Territories in the Americas colonized or claimed by a European great power in 1750.

There seems to be a common denominator in 1750.

I wonder what it could be?

Hint: more than one color on them maps

Another hint: colonized

Yes there are multiple colors, colors that show the countries who started and continued the pillaging for 284 years before the United States became a country.... Have any of them returned any of the riches they stole from the Americas?

We built a country, a country that saved every one of them from speaking German as their national language....

 

[maipenrai]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

The last post has been more than a month ago, but this is a subject that will affect a lot of us here. I asked this question before, but didnt seem to get a serious reply. If the treasures that were stolen from the America's, loaded onto Spanish ships, sunk, and now Spain claims them, what about pirate ships that have sunk? Does the booty belong to the relatives of the pirates?
The ships are Spanish, but who owns the cargo that was stolen? That should be the real question. Since the Real owners are long gone, seems it should belong to the salvos, who work very hard to find these treasures.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

You are so wrong! The white man went west and the indians didn't want to share the land so war started,all the white man wanted was ti expand and share this vast country.It was not genecide,we didn't try to wipe them out just because they believed in diferent things and gods.We just wanted to share the land.The Spanish in the other hand didn't want anybody alive that didn't believe the same way they did.That WAS genecide.

Soooo, what do you supposed happened to those Indians that lived on the East Coast? You know, the Indians that helped the Pilgrims survive and the whole Thanksgiving gimmick?

You know those Indians...the ones the white man sent out West and then stole that land, too?

A large part of the early tribes migrated west to get away from the invaders who landed on the south and east coast, starting in 1492......The Spanish, Portuguese, English, French invaders, you know, the ones your talking about, the ones who started the genocide of the inhabitants of the Americas 284 years before America even became a country......

Territories in the Americas colonized or claimed by a European great power in 1750.

I can't stop Laughing
These new American People, Did they come from Mars You need to check your back ground !! Or did the slate get wiped when it became
the United States of America
Talk about twisted History, I can recommend good history books that will open your eyes.
Ossy

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Did Odyssey return finally the 500M of spanish coins to "España?

Here is Spains history.....Beginning with Columbus in 1492 and continuing for nearly 350 years, Spain conquered and settled most of South America, the Caribbean, and the American Southwest.

Aided by their military advantages and infectious diseases they decimated the native population's defeated the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas, Spain organized a huge imperial system to exploit and pillage the land, labor, and mineral wealth belonging to the people of the New World.

The Spanish empire became the largest European empire since ancient Rome, and Spain used the stolen wealth of the Americas to finance almost endless warfare in Europe, protecting the Americas with its vast navy and powerful army and bringing Catholicism to the New World which it forced on the native population using torture, and coercion.