DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Not Peralta]

Real De Tayopa, I received the map in 1995 from a member of the noss family, letha , it was in docs possessions, ended up in ova's possessions with several other maps, and because she was so
busy with victorio peak she never bothered to look at this stuff, then letha ended up with them and she really never paid attention until 1994 she was going through her stuff and started looking
at them, this is what sparked their year long hunt in the caballo's for docs treasure, on the other maps doc actually put his other name m, starr on one of the maps, I think doc at some time copied these
from the maps that willie d, had, that's just my opinion, np

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Excellent NP, fascinated. If my interpretation is correct it explains many things. Yes, it shows another possible deposit other than at Victorio Peak. It was a million to one shot that it was not destroyed. You have earned an extra cuppa cafe.

may I join you ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

NP. am I correct in assuming that this was among the papers that Doc removed from the chamber

( biting finger nails )

 

[Not Peralta]

NP. am I correct in assuming that this was among the papers that Doc removed from the chamber

( biting finger nails )

Real, I really do not know, I told you the history that was told to me, I think doc copied them from the maps willie had, so who actually took them out of the chamber,
thanks for the ::np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gracias NP

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Come on people, I am mnot perfect, I knaw there must be flaws in my theory on the origin of the Bars in Victorio Peak and Tayopa's part in it So speak up or no coffee - ya hear thet oro?

 

[Not Peralta]

Come on people, I am mnot perfect, I knaw there must be flaws in my theory on the origin of the Bars in Victorio Peak and Tayopa's part in it So speak up or no coffee - ya hear thet oro?

real, yes I agree come on help real out,np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

N P, may I have permission to use that map, referencing you naturally ?? Extra cuppa coffee ? ole buddy, comrade, fellow hunter, general nice guy alte Kommerad

 

[Not Peralta]

N P, may I have permission to use that map, referencing you naturally ?? Extra cuppa coffee ? ole buddy, comrade, fellow hunter, general nice guy alte Kommerad

I started posting to share everything I have done in all my years ,you can not only use it ,if someone has further questions you or they can ask me , feel free my friend , have another np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

 

[gollum]

NP,

You should have your own website. I know its a pain sometimes, but you can put all the information you want to share in one place. More importantly, one place that you have total control of.

Just a thought. It also helps those that want to follow your info. They won't have to bounce all over TNet or other forums trying to find your posts.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

Come on people, I am mnot perfect, I knaw there must be flaws in my theory on the origin of the Bars in Victorio Peak and Tayopa's part in it So speak up or no coffee - ya hear thet oro?

OK, here goes...

"... The map shows various places in western Mexico in their correct location, not actual location but proper sequence..."

If this map came from the Noss family, its integrity is highly suspect, IMO, and not to be accepted at face value. By the way, those mountains known as the Caballos were called Sierra Perrillos until the 1800's.

"... The trails all converged then headed for the Victoria Peak area. Why? because it was a natural depository and 'most importantly', it was on the head waters of the Rio Grande / Rio del Norte..."

Victorio Peak is at least 40 miles from the Rio Grande as the crow flies - probably 50 or 60 zigzagging between the unreliable minor springs for a pack train.

"... Further Victorio Peak was a natural landmark easily found ..."

It's a non-descript hill in the desert.

"... So everything points to Victorio Peak, and explains the presence of so many bars..."

It seems to me that everything logically points to the Caballos - on the river, full of caves, terrific security, easy to find later, etc. Why travel an additional 50 miles to an inferior location?

IMO, Noss and predesessors may have found a cache in the Caballos. Noss may have salted the upper Victorio Peak and environs with some of the bars as a red herring to protect the Caballos site, where he was active for years. Ryan finally got tired of the Victorio lies and killed Noss. The lower Victorio caverns? Just because some GI's swore they removed thousands of bars doesn't prove anything. The Army seems to have looked hard, but I haven't seen hard proof - only hearsay - that they found anything. The Army likely was fooled by Noss lies too.

 

[Not Peralta]

springfield, I had already mentioned the copying of the maps at different times, I would suspect that during one or more of the times that someone was doing this they would change old names with new ones that they recognized, in my honest opinion the original find was willie d's. and him or doc changed the name, the whole set of maps in my opinion is what was found originally with the padre. a lot
of this I already covered earlier here, np

 

[Not Peralta]

Señor, the only flaw I see is the absence of an explanation of how there would be anything left for Doc Noss to stumble upon in Vicky Peak in the 30's - Jesuit, KGC/Maximillion (the Hapsburg), Phoenician, or otherwise.

What bars? For the Jesuits would have retrieved them long before 1937, or whatever year that was. I'm not opposed to the Tayopa miners using it as a depository, just that they would have left any there for Doc and Ova. There was something else going on with Doc and Vicky Peak, with Not Peralta's theory being as good and more reasonable than some - you both could be right. The SoJ used it as a waypoint, and Doc used it as cover story.

But, that still means Doc got info about Vicky from somewhere so that he could use it as such, which is a question I suppose best asked of Not Peralta. If Doc used Vicky as you suggest, where did he find out about the cave system there?

willie d did not find anything at victorio peak, willie d was in the caballo's, but I think willie d did show doc the cave system at vp, vp was used by many for years, np

 

[gollum]

Señor, the only flaw I see is the absence of an explanation of how there would be anything left for Doc Noss to stumble upon in Vicky Peak in the 30's - Jesuit, KGC/Maximillion (the Hapsburg), Phoenician, or otherwise.

What bars? For the Jesuits would have retrieved them long before 1937, or whatever year that was. I'm not opposed to the Tayopa miners using it as a depository, just that they would have left any there for Doc and Ova. There was something else going on with Doc and Vicky Peak, with Not Peralta's theory being as good and more reasonable than some - you both could be right. The SoJ used it as a waypoint, and Doc used it as cover story.

But, that still means Doc got info about Vicky from somewhere so that he could use it as such, which is a question I suppose best asked of Not Peralta. If Doc used Vicky as you suggest, where did he find out about the cave system there?

Slow down there Nobody,

Just because the Jesuits didn't recover it, does not mean they didn't hide it. Even though their status as a Religious Order in the Catholic Church was restored in 1814, in 1891 (77 years later), a fortune was found in Rio de Janiero that was inextricably linked to the Jesuits:



Mike

 

[Not Peralta]

Slow down there Nobody,

Just because the Jesuits didn't recover it, does not mean they didn't hide it. Even though their status as a Religious Order in the Catholic Church was restored in 1814, in 1891 (77 years later), a fortune was found in Rio de Janiero that was inextricably linked to the Jesuits:

View attachment 1046239

Mike

not counting the ones we will never here about.np

 

[Springfield]

Slow down there Nobody,

Just because the Jesuits didn't recover it, does not mean they didn't hide it. Even though their status as a Religious Order in the Catholic Church was restored in 1814, in 1891 (77 years later), a fortune was found in Rio de Janiero that was inextricably linked to the Jesuits:

Mike

We know the Jesuits were into gold-rich South America up to their eyeballs, but re Victorio Peak in New Mexico, are you saying it was a Jesuit site?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Springfield my friend: Coffee ?

I noticed the 1800+ post on the building at the bottom. By that time Tayopa was well on the way to becoming a legend as a Lost mine/ So I questioned the Tayopa reference, but the reference to other places in Sonora, which was a large province then, was a curious point. I doubt that they had many documents to go by, I.E how could they have found those names in Sonora of the 1600"?? So I came to the conclusion thar it was a copy,but mever-the-less useable.

Where on the map does it say Victorio Peak ??

40 miles from the river? To put things in proper prospective, after a mule trip from Sonora what does 50 miles mean in the long run - just another hard day or so of packing. Weather alone may have held them up more than that, and to finally put this to rest, look how many days it would save instead of going directly to the coast. or the long trip to Rome ? a day or more was negligible.
Plus they would need a depository on the coast to facilitate loading the ship- waiting for a daily mule train waold be extremely slow, and dangerous. If it were closer to the river, it would have attracted attention.

"hy travel an additional 50 miles to an inferior location?"? Apparently it was quite effective, since it stilt eludes detection - perhaps with the possible exception of Noss.

I am not defending or condemning Nos, I have no real interest in hm, 0r the Victorio Peak deposit other then as to how it might pretain to Tayopa, and the means of getting it to Rome. I.E. proving the existence of Tayopa and the long road to Rome.
i
incidentally in past posts, the river's importance was casually mentioned, I missed that on the first go a round then had a stroke of whatever, noticed that they really put it on the spot without realizing the importance of suggesting the river for navigation. It should have been glaring to me, since I was trying to identify a logical path.

Ok Springfield, hank you and and an extra cuppa
..

ose

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hello Springy again; and my friend nobody. T have posted extensively on this in the Tayopa series' They never reopened Tayopa after the Indian uprising, but did return to the fantastically rich 'zone' where they cntinued to mine clandestinely.. Around 17-- they commenced to think of taking North Ameriaca away from Spain- for which they were expelled - and commenced to stockpilt metal at the Tayopa zone until they were expelled. The deposit is still intact - I m slowly working on it. It ists 640 fully loaded mules of gold and 12oo bars of silver, among many other things. Side thingy, they list 180 bodies there, presumably of the workers who actually considered it a privilege to die in the service of Rome.

Side thing, Tayopa was a bonanza 'SILVER' mine

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

One of the posts that I was d\referring to===>

"ve been meaning to bring this up for awhile, but i've always wondered if they ever used the Rio Grande to transport their goodies to the Gulf of Mexico. I know mr Don Jose has mentioned that the goods were transported to a small bay just south of the Texas border for shipment, and I have read about that elsewhere. The river, like mr Springfield mentioned, was navigatable in those days. Curious what you guys and gals think about that possibility. Plenty of places to hide the stash along the way if need be.....maybe some left behind along the way?....hmmmm"