DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[treasminder2]

Connecticut Sam ?
not again ,,, Jebus .

 

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[treasminder2]

I have to ask again , where are the photos of stacks of bars inside VP ?
Doc never took any ?
why not ?

Figment is hard to photograph ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Rog, I have practically none of my earlier years and of the early ones on the Tayopa campaign, most were destroyed during a flash flood in Alamos, so I can accept Doc's lack of photos.

 

[johnmark29020]

I have to ask again , where are the photos of stacks of bars inside VP ?
Doc never took any ?
why not ?

Figment is hard to photograph ?

Wasnt doc arrested a few times. I wonder if the cops,gov. Took his picks and any real info.

 

[treasminder2]

They just might have John , they took mine , however , that always did
bother me about his claim , because the Pics he had of Bars outside of the cavern
were obvious fake bars ,
another bug is why he left for Arkansas for a couple years . on the lam ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Rog, Ask me about La Gloria pan mine, why after a couple of years on the trail, when I actually found it, did I leave it to this day
still unopened.

it still sits there with it's entrance still intact, marked with the imprint of two hands in the materiel (arcilla ) used to seal the entrance.

I can undederstand possible motives for Doc leaving it.
.

 

[mdog]

Hi Don Jose,

You've posted before about VP being a point for precious metals to be accumulated and sent to Rome by way of a ship in the gulf by Matamoros. Is this something you found in your research? When would this have taken place?

 

[Rawhide]

I have to ask again , where are the photos of stacks of bars inside VP ?
Doc never took any ?
why not ?

Figment is hard to photograph ?

Bars were never really at VP. Docs stash(s) was elsewhere. He even fooled his wife. Just one possibility. Doc was killed for his gold, he took his secrets with him.

 

[johnmark29020]

Bars were never really at VP. Docs stash(s) was elsewhere. He even fooled his wife. Just one possibility. Doc was killed for his gold, he took his secrets with him.

I wonder if doc had a more knowledgeable partner. One who knew how it all worked,and how to get to the site,and doc was the partner who just wasn't paying enough attention. So maybe his partner is killed. Leaving doc trying to remember everything he was taught.

My wife and I with a friend found what we believe is the dutchman,but when I die they are screwed. Ive asked both questions regarding route,landmarks,and other things. Neither one could find it with out me.
I wonder if thats what is really happening here,and who could have,been the partner.
Just my mind wondering stupid things.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mdog, my friend Coffee?

It was approx. 1630 - 1850's

 

[Not Peralta]

NP ~ Did you know Oren Swearingen?

no, I did not, only knew of him. np

 

[treasminder2]

View attachment 1126114 Sarah , a love from my past , I saw those eyes , and fell into them , Her Touch as soft as a babies sigh
her heart as free as the Angels .

 

[kanabite]

View attachment 1126114 Sarah , a love from my past , I saw those eyes , and fell into them , Her Touch as soft as a babies sigh
her heart as free as the Angels .

 

[Rawhide]

Doc worked as a ranch hand and found the location most likely by word of mouth. Very likely he had a cache he worked from. The real truth to most treasure story's is folks just get lucky. But I do believe doc had a understanding of the old ways.

 

[mdog]

Mdog, my friend Coffee?

It was approx. 1630 - 1850's

Don Jose, my friend, thanks for the coffee and info. Although, today I could use a couple beers.

I like the map that NP posted, also, but I'm thinking the valuables went to the NE until Spain took over Louisiana Territory, mid 1700s. Would have been a smuggling operation run by the Jesuits, or some other group, from New France. A priest named Aulneau mentioned a contact he was scheduled to make several hundred miles to the SW from Lake of the Woods in Canada. He also mentioned Father Kino as being associated with the region he was travelling to. Aulneau was killed by Indians before he could start his journey, mid 1730s. Also, during the 1730s, France was sending salt smugglers from prisons in France to New France. Some of these guys were never seen again after they reached New France. Might be a point to start for further research. I've posted this stuff before but there didn't seem to be much interest in it. If anybody is interested, I'll look for some links.

 

[mdog]

To reach my final destination I shall have to cross nearly the whole of North America; but my course is so ordered, that instead of passing by the Mississippi River, when I have got as far as Missilinakinac, where Father Saint P£ is stationed, I shall take a northwest direction, and shall traverse all the great lakes which lie on this side and beyond the sources of the Mississippi, until I come to the lake of the Assiniboels. I shall leave that post only in the spring, to journey on three or four hundred leagues beyond, in quest of the Ouant Chipouanes, so that my course then will be southwest.
Such, Reverend Father, is the route I shall follow towards an objective point which you see is very indefinite and uncertain, since all we know about it is founded on the reports of other Indians, who, for the most part, have little scruple in speaking differently from what they think.
If what they add concerning the place where the Ouant Chipouanes dwell be true, I should say that these cannot be very far from California, for, if we are to believe their reports, the Ouant Chipouanes dwell on the shores of a great river where there is an ebb and flow in the stream, which would go to show that the sea cannot be very far off. It is not easy to determine what river this is. I am led to surmise, however, that it is no other than the great river which Father King, a German Jesuit, mentions in the map which he traced of the regions lying to the north of California, and which he calls the Rio Colorado de Norte. See the fifth collection of the Lettres Edifiantes*

 

[sdcfia]

To reach my final destination I shall have to cross nearly the whole of North America; but my course is so ordered, that instead of passing by the Mississippi River, when I have got as far as Missilinakinac, where Father Saint P£ is stationed, I shall take a northwest direction, and shall traverse all the great lakes which lie on this side and beyond the sources of the Mississippi, until I come to the lake of the Assiniboels. I shall leave that post only in the spring, to journey on three or four hundred leagues beyond, in quest of the Ouant Chipouanes, so that my course then will be southwest.
Such, Reverend Father, is the route I shall follow towards an objective point which you see is very indefinite and uncertain, since all we know about it is founded on the reports of other Indians, who, for the most part, have little scruple in speaking differently from what they think.
If what they add concerning the place where the Ouant Chipouanes dwell be true, I should say that these cannot be very far from California, for, if we are to believe their reports, the Ouant Chipouanes dwell on the shores of a great river where there is an ebb and flow in the stream, which would go to show that the sea cannot be very far off. It is not easy to determine what river this is. I am led to surmise, however, that it is no other than the great river which Father King, a German Jesuit, mentions in the map which he traced of the regions lying to the north of California, and which he calls the Rio Colorado de Norte. See the fifth collection of the Lettres Edifiantes*

Thanks, mdog. I know you've posted some of this before, and it resulted in a discussion of the possible activities of the French Jesuits in the Southwest. The thinking being that French Jesuit explorers may have ascended CO's Arkansas River to the Purgatoire, then up into the mountains for reasons currently not fully known. This alleged activity may have been merely to pioneer a travel route toward the Colorado River, but it also brings to mind the Treasure Mountain legend in this part of CO - attributed to some shadowy group of French miners who cached a large amount of gold there.

To me, an interesting coincidence concerns the European Crypto Jews, who arrived (exiled?) in the New World shortly after Columbus and were some of the first Spanish in the Sangre de Cristo Range of northern NM and southeast CO, typical Franciscan territory. Health-related DNA research has recently located Crypto Jewish descendants in the San Luis Valley of CO - the village of San Luis being the oldest non-native community in CO. At this point in time, it seems reasonable to think that these folks may have been still aware that they were Jews and it's interesting to speculate that they may have separated themselves from the Catholics when they settled in San Luis. When you consider that the Jesuits' founder Loyola was himself a Crypto Jew, one wonders if there could be any connection to the alleged French Jesuit presence in the San Luis Valley. It's a grey area of history.

 

[mdog]

Thanks, mdog. I know you've posted some of this before, and it resulted in a discussion of the possible activities of the French Jesuits in the Southwest. The thinking being that French Jesuit explorers may have ascended CO's Arkansas River to the Purgatoire, then up into the mountains for reasons currently not fully known. This alleged activity may have been merely to pioneer a travel route toward the Colorado River, but it also brings to mind the Treasure Mountain legend in this part of CO - attributed to some shadowy group of French miners who cached a large amount of gold there.

To me, an interesting coincidence concerns the European Crypto Jews, who arrived (exiled?) in the New World shortly after Columbus and were some of the first Spanish in the Sangre de Cristo Range of northern NM and southeast CO, typical Franciscan territory. Health-related DNA research has recently located Crypto Jewish descendants in the San Luis Valley of CO - the village of San Luis being the oldest non-native community in CO. At this point in time, it seems reasonable to think that these folks may have been still aware that they were Jews and it's interesting to speculate that they may have separated themselves from the Catholics when they settled in San Luis. When you consider that the Jesuits' founder Loyola was himself a Crypto Jew, one wonders if there could be any connection to the alleged French Jesuit presence in the San Luis Valley. It's a grey area of history.

Thanks sdcfia, I don't remember ever reading about the Jewish DNA link in the San Luis Valley, that's real interesting. I've been doing a lot of research over the past several years and the San Luis Valley region is the most mysterious, in my opinion. I've never been in that part of the country but it seems to me that it's a final destination or maybe a staging area for something big. I can't explain it, just mysterious.

I've studied the converso and crypto Jewish connection with some of the early Spanish explorers and settlers of the SW and found a few surprises.

There were many men of Jewish descent who joined Catholic orders so that they could study the Old Testament without getting burned at the stake. Anybody studying the Jesuits, as well as other orders, should remember this and take it into consideration when looking at the old treasure legends. The crypto Jews would not have had any allegiance to the King of Spain or the Pope.

 

[sdcfia]

Thanks sdcfia, I don't remember ever reading about the Jewish DNA link in the San Luis Valley, that's real interesting. I've been doing a lot of research over the past several years and the San Luis Valley region is the most mysterious, in my opinion. I've never been in that part of the country but it seems to me that it's a final destination or maybe a staging area for something big. I can't explain it, just mysterious.

I've studied the converso and crypto Jewish connection with some of the early Spanish explorers and settlers of the SW and found a few surprises.

There were many men of Jewish descent who joined Catholic orders so that they could study the Old Testament without getting burned at the stake. Anybody studying the Jesuits, as well as other orders, should remember this and take it into consideration when looking at the old treasure legends. The crypto Jews would not have had any allegiance to the King of Spain or the Pope.

Here you go, mdog:
The 'Secret Jews' of San Luis Valley | Science | Smithsonian


The San Luis Valley has a decent choice of mysteries to probe: UFO hotspot, underground alien base, cattle mutilation capitol, golden treasure legends, bigfoot, ant people and a nice selection of minor paranormal episodes. While you're tracking UFOs, you can take a break at the alligator farm. Watch your fingers.

 

[mdog]

Thanks for the link, Sdcfia. Alligator farm? I never would have guessed.