Dowsing VS Quija Boards ?

[MD Dog]

I guess this is the only place to openly discuss Dowsing. I don't know if it can or is done for real or not. And I don't know if it involves the supernatural or not. But there's alot of stuff out there that may or may not be real, and it may or may not have satanic origins. Clearly the Christian Bibles says not to partake of anything that might be construed as spiritual out side of what is prescribed for the Individual Christian. So for those that believe in dowsing I was wondering what your views on the Quija board and if it's for real or not ? and for Those of you who don't believe in dowsing does that hold true for Quija boards as well ?

 

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[ClonedSIM]

I guess this is the only place to openly discuss Dowsing. I don't know if it can or is done for real or not. And I don't know if it involves the supernatural or not. But there's alot of stuff out there that may or may not be real, and it may or may not have satanic origins. Clearly the Christian Bibles says not to partake of anything that might be construed as spiritual out side of what is prescribed for the Individual Christian. So for those that believe in dowsing I was wondering what your views on the Quija board and if it's for real or not ? and for Those of you who don't believe in dowsing does that hold true for Quija boards as well ?

What is there to believe from a Quija board? In it's most common form, the form many of us are familiar with, is a piece of heavy cardboard and a plastic pointer manufactured by Parker Brothers. A game, in other words, a form of entertainment, much like Monopoly or Life.

Do you believe that a Magic 8 Ball actually fortells the future? Or that a fortune cookie can guide you to the correct Lotto numbers?

And you speak often of Christianity and the beliefs of that religion as laid out in the Bible. Are you making a connection between Christianity and dowsing, aside from the fact that the Bible steers people clear of it?

 

[MD Dog]

I'm not linking anything to anything. If you dont like the question then feel free to stay out of the discussion.

 

[ClonedSIM]

I'm not linking anything to anything. If you dont like the question then feel free to stay out of the discussion.

Oh, I'm sorry, MD. I thought you wanted an open and frank discussion.

I answered your questions and asked one of my own. What part of that frightened you?

 

[godisnum1]

Easy there, killer... I understand your question. I'm honestly not convinced of the validity of dowsing. I'm not knocking it or saying though that partake in it are liars or evil... I just am not convinced, that's all. If people think they can cross two rods and find stuff, then more power to them. If that were actually the case, I would be extremely curious as to the motivation and what is actually making it work. I know what the Bible says about demons, and I strongly believe they are all around and can effect things in this life. Anyway, that's my take.

Bran <><

 

[ClonedSIM]

Easy there, killer... I understand your question. I'm honestly not convinced of the validity of dowsing. I'm not knocking it or saying though that partake in it are liars or evil... I just am not convinced, that's all. If people think they can cross two rods and find stuff, then more power to them. If that were actually the case, I would be extremely curious as to the motivation and what is actually making it work. I know what the Bible says about demons, and I strongly believe they are all around and can effect things in this life. Anyway, that's my take.

Bran <><

Hey, I'm with you on this one. I would love to see proof that dowsing works on a regular basis and perhaps a reason why it supposedly works. I'm still looking.

 

[gollum]

and it may or may not have satanic origins.

Satanic Origins? Uuuuummmhhhh. Who makes the decision as to what is Satanic and what is not? This has always intrigued me about modern Christians. If they encounter something that is beyond their explanation, many times they consider it to be Satanic in nature.

I'm not saying that applies to you MD Dog, but I have seen it time and time again.

There are many things in the NATURAL world around us that are unexplainable with today's knowledge. God only knows what tomorrow will bring.

I cite as an example, the movie "Something the Lord Made". The story of Dr. Alfred Blalock and Vivien Thomas, and how by performing the first ever open heart surgery, they cured Blue baby Syndrome. One of the great issues they had to overcome was from the Religious Zealots who stated categorically that they were trying to do things that ONLY God could do. That they were being sinful and what they were doing was evil.

That is just one easy to research example of how some people try and explain what they dont understand.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I NEVER dismiss what I can't explain by saying it is of the devil, or debunk it by saying it was an hallucination or mistaken identity. I just try and keep an open mind.

Best-Mike

 

[ClonedSIM]

and it may or may not have satanic origins.

Satanic Origins? Uuuuummmhhhh. Who makes the decision as to what is Satanic and what is not? This has always intrigued me about modern Christians. If they encounter something that is beyond their explanation, many times they consider it to be Satanic in nature.

I'm not saying that applies to you MD Dog, but I have seen it time and time again.

There are many things in the NATURAL world around us that are unexplainable with today's knowledge. God only knows what tomorrow will bring.

I cite as an example, the movie "Something the Lord Made". The story of Dr. Alfred Blalock and Vivien Thomas, and how by performing the first ever open heart surgery, they cured Blue baby Syndrome. One of the great issues they had to overcome was from the Religious Zealots who stated categorically that they were trying to do things that ONLY God could do. That they were being sinful and what they were doing was evil.

That is just one easy to research example of how some people try and explain what they dont understand.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I NEVER dismiss what I can't explain by saying it is of the devil, or debunk it by saying it was an hallucination or mistaken identity. I just try and keep an open mind.

Best-Mike

Great post, Gollum.

 

[gollum]

Regarding dowsing, I am at a loss to explain it.

I do believe that there are some people (not nearly as many as claim to) that have the ability to dowse.

I went to High School with a guy whose father owned an Oil Exploration Company. The company had on it's payroll a few dowsers. Now this was a VERY profitable company, with access to all the latest and greatest gadgets and computer modeling software. They would use the dowsers to initially locate areas of interest. They would then send in a crew to drill an exploratory well. More often than not, they were right on.

If it would have been by coincidence that they hit on the spot to drill, I seriously doubt that they would have been paid the big money they were being paid. That is my biggest reason for thinking that there is something to dowsing. LRLs and MFDs I believe are just a lot of crap. I think that you either have the talent or you don't, and no amount of hocus pocus junk electronics can do something a real dowser can't.

Best-Mike

 

[MD Dog]

See that's what I'm talking about really. Open minds, I think if a person can find treasure using dowsing or Quija boards or whatever, they're way ahead of me cause even with my research and high tech equipment I have a hard time finding a little silver coin. But some of these guys and girls have found some amazing things, like meteors and gold deposits, even whole treasures, at least that's what they claim. But if they've already found something like that why would they lie about how they found it. I personally wouldn't even tell anybody if I found something really valuble. I know that some of the fakes are in it to promote a pair of special sticks or their special Quija board or whatever. But some of them don't seem to have anything to gain by lying about the how they found their treasure.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Regarding dowsing, I am at a loss to explain it.

I do believe that there are some people (not nearly as many as claim to) that have the ability to dowse.

I went to High School with a guy whose father owned an Oil Exploration Company. The company had on it's payroll a few dowsers. Now this was a VERY profitable company, with access to all the latest and greatest gadgets and computer modeling software. They would use the dowsers to initially locate areas of interest. They would then send in a crew to drill an exploratory well. More often than not, they were right on.

If it would have been by coincidence that they hit on the spot to drill, I seriously doubt that they would have been paid the big money they were being paid. That is my biggest reason for thinking that there is something to dowsing. LRLs and MFDs I believe are just a lot of crap. I think that you either have the talent or you don't, and no amount of hocus pocus junk electronics can do something a real dowser can't.

Best-Mike

Nice as well. LRL's, MFD's.....all wastes of time and money. But what I can't find and no one can seem to explain, is why dowsing should work. There have been successes in the past, but how constant are these successes? Are they repeatable? And under what conditions were the successful dowsing sessions performed? I know these questions have been put through the wringer, but it remains valid and unanswered.

 

[gollum]

The only answer I can give to that is..............................................

I don't know.

When you take into account proven successes like Remote Viewing, Psychokinesis (Google: Nina Kulagina), and several other examples, I can only say that there are things I believe to be completely natural, just not explainable by science (yet). One day, some guy in a white lab coat will look up from a microscope and say "AHAAAA!" and something previously thought to be paranormal will become just normal.

Same thing happened with germs, atoms, electrons, gravity, molecules, electricity, and many others. Nothing Satanic or Paranormal, just not yet explainable with science as we know it.

One day, when those little green men step off their spaceships onto the White House Lawn (in front of CNN Cameras), all those ministers who have said that God only created the Earth and we humans who populate it, will have a lot of 'splainin to do!

I can cite numerous examples of how zealots from all sides have been dead wrong in the past. I vividly remember seeing a show on TV not more than ten years ago that had renowned icthyologists and zoologists state beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Giant Squid was just legends and lies made up by seafarers to explain things they couldn't.

Here is a cut and paste from an article about Galileo Gallilee that presents the same about the church (and what happens when the Bible is taken too literally):

Western Christian biblical references "Psalm 93:1", "Psalm 96:10", and "Chronicles 16:30" include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, "Psalm 104:5" says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, "Ecclesiastes 1:5" states that "the sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

Galileo defended heliocentrism, and claimed it was not contrary to those Scripture passages. He took Augustine's position on Scripture: not to take every passage literally, particularly when the scripture in question is a book of poetry and songs, not a book of instructions or history. The writers of the Scripture wrote from the perspective of the terrestrial world, and from that vantage point the sun does rise and set. In fact, it is the earth's rotation which gives the impression of the sun in motion across the sky.

Best-Mike

 

[ClonedSIM]

The only answer I can give to that is..............................................

I don't know.

When you take into account proven successes like Remote Viewing, Psychokinesis (Google: Nina Kulagina), and several other examples, I can only say that there are things I believe to be completely natural, just not explainable by science (yet). One day, some guy in a white lab coat will look up from a microscope and say "AHAAAA!" and something previously thought to be paranormal will become just normal.

Same thing happened with germs, atoms, electrons, gravity, molecules, electricity, and many others. Nothing Satanic or Paranormal, just not yet explainable with science as we know it.

One day, when those little green men step off their spaceships onto the White House Lawn (in front of CNN Cameras), all those ministers who have said that God only created the Earth and we humans who populate it, will have a lot of 'splainin to do!

I can cite numerous examples of how zealots from all sides have been dead wrong in the past. I vividly remember seeing a show on TV not more than ten years ago that had renowned icthyologists and zoologists state beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Giant Squid was just legends and lies made up by seafarers to explain things they couldn't.

Here is a cut and paste from an article about Galileo Gallilee that presents the same about the church (and what happens when the Bible is taken too literally):

Western Christian biblical references "Psalm 93:1", "Psalm 96:10", and "Chronicles 16:30" include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, "Psalm 104:5" says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, "Ecclesiastes 1:5" states that "the sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

Galileo defended heliocentrism, and claimed it was not contrary to those Scripture passages. He took Augustine's position on Scripture: not to take every passage literally, particularly when the scripture in question is a book of poetry and songs, not a book of instructions or history. The writers of the Scripture wrote from the perspective of the terrestrial world, and from that vantage point the sun does rise and set. In fact, it is the earth's rotation which gives the impression of the sun in motion across the sky.

Best-Mike

Well, while I can't agree with you about successes in remote viewing or in the performances of Nina Kulagina, (have you read any con-Kulagina articles?) I do believe that there are many phenomena that haven't been explained up to this point. But, let's be honest, dowsing has been around for thousands of years, and to date no one has been able to perform repeated successes in any kind of controlled envirnoment or explain why dowsing is supposed to work.

If, and this is a big if, dowsing is a real scientifically-explainable trait, then why aren't more people able to do it with success? As is the case with traveling through space, flying in airplanes, diving to the bottom of the sea, all of these things weren't always possible, and some were thought entirely impossible. But, with the proper training, most anyone now who has a desire can perform these feats. These are all subjects that have been studied and whose methods have been perfected through the years. But dowsing has undergone the same scrutiny and so far, no one person can explain how or why it works. Many debates have flow around peppered with scientific terms but more often than not, once these pseudo-scientific explanations have been debunked, dowsers invariable fall back to their standard, pat answer. "Dowsing will only work if you believe in it."

 

[ClonedSIM]

See that's what I'm talking about really. Open minds, I think if a person can find treasure using dowsing or Quija boards or whatever, they're way ahead of me cause even with my research and high tech equipment I have a hard time finding a little silver coin. But some of these guys and girls have found some amazing things, like meteors and gold deposits, even whole treasures, at least that's what they claim. But if they've already found something like that why would they lie about how they found it. I personally wouldn't even tell anybody if I found something really valuble. I know that some of the fakes are in it to promote a pair of special sticks or their special Quija board or whatever. But some of them don't seem to have anything to gain by lying about the how they found their treasure.

Apparently you aren't going to respond to my original post in this thread, so we'll leave that alone for now.

When you're dealing with a subject like this, you need to be very cautious and even pessimistic about claims of amazing treasure being found with nothing more than a couple of coat-hangers.

Why would someone lie about a find? For attention, either for themselves or to bring some kind of positive light to dowsing. If you'd like to go back through the dowsing threads and find all the claims of amazing treasure, be my guest. Then, take down those member names and find the date of their last post. 90% of those who say they've found stunning treasures, yet refuse to provide photos or details are gone within the month, and sometimes do not return after making the original post.

Trust your instincts on things like this. If you ask questions about a find, and the one who claims to have made the find either evades the questions or gives obviously incorrect answers, then simply move on. Do no assume that they have a valid reason for not having an answer and that the find they made is perfectly legit. Even if you can't think of a reason someone might lie, someone else certainly could.

This is the Internet, anyone can say what they want or pretend to be who they want.

 

[Miner49er]

Maybe I can answer some of your questions, I think so, as far as my own experience indicates. I am a professional treasure finder, I am a professional salvage diver with over 40 years of experience. In the mid 1960’s, we recovered 20,000 Spanish silver coins from a shipwreck. Following that, I have salvaged shipwrecks in many different Caribbean countries. While in Haiti, I was converting an old steam ship into a casino, and I badly needed a water supply. The ship was moored at a dock on a major boulevard with no water supply nearby. Across the boulevard from the dock were businesses that had no water either, as the city water supply had dried up many years prior.
I knew nothing about dowsing except that people had sometimes found water using forked sticks, or some kind of rods. I bought two brass welding rods from a local shop and bent them into what I considered a suitable shape. I started walking around the grounds on the opposite side of the boulevard from where my ship was docked.
Eventually, the rods crossed near an alleyway between two buildings, very close to the street. There was a sidewalk between the street and the sea wall, which meant that I was approximately 30 to 40 feet from the sea. I came at this location from several directions, and the rods always crossed at the same spot.
Now, there were several people gathered about, as the Haitian people are very curious when a “blanc” is doing something unusual. I took a great risk and asked some of my men to dig a square hole at the indicated spot. When asked how deep, I replied “until you hit water”. I did not think about would happen when the hole went below the depth of the sea floor 35 feet away. My men went down 7 feet and water started to enter the square hole. This was well below the sea floor only a few feet from us. I instructed my people to let the water settle, and we would test it later. One of my men came to me in just a very short while and said that the water was coming clear “right now, Captain”. I had some water brought up in a jar for me, and it was fresh and sweet. We cleaned up the well, placed flat rocks, and installed a pump. We even supplied one of the businesses with water for the use of his property where the well was located.
All of this is illogical of course, as people are not able to dowse (according to science), and I should have struck salt water instead of fresh. That started me own a long search into the art or phenomena of dowsing. Remember the crowd that was watching me? Well, a prominent businessman came forward and asked if I could check his property for water. If anyone wishes to read that story, I will post later, along with many more.
Bill

 

[MD Dog]

cool story, I'd really like to read more. but I wouldn't think your lying about your experience which is what allot of people seem to be saying. Not about your story specifically but about others claims in general regarding dowsing. I have no experience one way or the other but for instance I know Jeff of PA has, as well as Marc the head honcho of this site have had experiences with Quija boards and allot of people discount them as well. I have never delved into anything like this as it is strictly verboten in my personal belief system. But I just don't see why some people are so against it as a tool for those who choose to employ it for treasure hunting. I think the Bible says avoid it and those who employ these things but it doesn't say attack them at every turn and confront them as liars, or discount the individuals claims as to how or why, or even what they did. If anything I think the Bible makes it clear that some of these things are for real and aren't of God therefore they must be from Satan if they have a spiritual origin. I don't wanna stray too far afield on this or Jeff will wanna move it to the religion forum. But I just wanna make the point that all methods of treasure hunting I think are valid and should not be discounted off hand as long as no one else is harmed in any way.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Maybe I can answer some of your questions, I think so, as far as my own experience indicates. I am a professional treasure finder, I am a professional salvage diver with over 40 years of experience. In the mid 1960’s, we recovered 20,000 Spanish silver coins from a shipwreck. Following that, I have salvaged shipwrecks in many different Caribbean countries. While in Haiti, I was converting an old steam ship into a casino, and I badly needed a water supply. The ship was moored at a dock on a major boulevard with no water supply nearby. Across the boulevard from the dock were businesses that had no water either, as the city water supply had dried up many years prior.
I knew nothing about dowsing except that people had sometimes found water using forked sticks, or some kind of rods. I bought two brass welding rods from a local shop and bent them into what I considered a suitable shape. I started walking around the grounds on the opposite side of the boulevard from where my ship was docked.
Eventually, the rods crossed near an alleyway between two buildings, very close to the street. There was a sidewalk between the street and the sea wall, which meant that I was approximately 30 to 40 feet from the sea. I came at this location from several directions, and the rods always crossed at the same spot.
Now, there were several people gathered about, as the Haitian people are very curious when a “blanc” is doing something unusual. I took a great risk and asked some of my men to dig a square hole at the indicated spot. When asked how deep, I replied “until you hit water”. I did not think about would happen when the hole went below the depth of the sea floor 35 feet away. My men went down 7 feet and water started to enter the square hole. This was well below the sea floor only a few feet from us. I instructed my people to let the water settle, and we would test it later. One of my men came to me in just a very short while and said that the water was coming clear “right now, Captain”. I had some water brought up in a jar for me, and it was fresh and sweet. We cleaned up the well, placed flat rocks, and installed a pump. We even supplied one of the businesses with water for the use of his property where the well was located.
All of this is illogical of course, as people are not able to dowse (according to science), and I should have struck salt water instead of fresh. That started me own a long search into the art or phenomena of dowsing. Remember the crowd that was watching me? Well, a prominent businessman came forward and asked if I could check his property for water. If anyone wishes to read that story, I will post later, along with many more.
Bill

I'm curious about one thing. Had you done any research or testing prior to your dowsing experiment in regards to the average freshwater table in that area? Where were the other wells located for the other residents of the town?

 

[ClonedSIM]

The first thing MD Dog asked....

I guess this is the only place to openly discuss Dowsing. I don't know if it can or is done for real or not. And I don't know if it involves the supernatural or not. But there's alot of stuff out there that may or may not be real, and it may or may not have satanic origins. Clearly the Christian Bibles says not to partake of anything that might be construed as spiritual out side of what is prescribed for the Individual Christian. So for those that believe in dowsing I was wondering what your views on the Quija board and if it's for real or not ? and for Those of you who don't believe in dowsing does that hold true for Quija boards as well ?

The second thing MD Dog asked....

cool story, I'd really like to read more. but I wouldn't think your lying about your experience which is what allot of people seem to be saying. Not about your story specifically but about others claims in general regarding dowsing. I have no experience one way or the other but for instance I know Jeff of PA has, as well as Marc the head honcho of this site have had experiences with Quija boards and allot of people discount them as well. I have never delved into anything like this as it is strictly verboten in my personal belief system. But I just don't see why some people are so against it as a tool for those who choose to employ it for treasure hunting. I think the Bible says avoid it and those who employ these things but it doesn't say attack them at every turn and confront them as liars, or discount the individuals claims as to how or why, or even what they did. If anything I think the Bible makes it clear that some of these things are for real and aren't of God therefore they must be from Satan if they have a spiritual origin. I don't wanna stray too far afield on this or Jeff will wanna move it to the religion forum. But I just wanna make the point that all methods of treasure hunting I think are valid and should not be discounted off hand as long as no one else is harmed in any way.

Okay, it looks like you've hijacked your own thread, MD.

What exactly do you want to know, MD Dog?? What are your own beliefs? Do you have your own opinion, or do you just get off on asking questions then leaving the thread once answers start coming in?

 

[Miner49er]

af1733,
Yes, I did research where other wells could be located!! There weren't any. People went to a common area where water flowed from a stand pipe to fill containers. This was about 1/2 mile away from where I found my water.
Bill
remember what I related earlier, there were many more incidents that proved to me that dowsing is viable.

 

[ClonedSIM]

af1733,
Yes, I did research where other wells could be located!! There weren't any. People went to a common area where water flowed from a stand pipe to fill containers. This was about 1/2 mile away from where I found my water.
Bill
remember what I related earlier, there were many more incidents that proved to me that dowsing is viable.

Can you locate treasure through dowsing as well as water?