Early Tayopa newspaper story

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello lilorphanannie

Thanks for the compliment. Your absolutely correct in your statements. It is of importance to me as guide in part of a process of elimination in understanding the timeline between the various Tayopas, various name versions and respective parishes. For Don Jose it is perhaps a little bit collaborating evidence on the history of various searches in regards to the various Tayopa's. Dobie and Ruggles have never visited Don Jose's Site as it was the much earlier mining site perhaps abandoned around early 1640's. Due to Yaquri uprising around 1640. The fire that fulled that rebellion was the refusal of the Jesuit to allow native medicine men to practice their native religious beliefs in the village settlements that fuel resentment by them of the power shift. the proverbial clash of religious ideology. This as you and Don Jose has rightly understood will be no easy task finding those documents. I have millions of names on Documents at my disposal but not all. It is usually the document I do not have is the ones that I want. Same old story for anybody who researches.

As for the name you mentioned I ran the name roaquerl laran through several data base. I ran the name plus various other possible spelling versions through Mexican Baptisms 1560-1950 which has 43,307,776 names listed. None of that Surname. I even tried the name in reverse nothing. I tried Mexico, Coahuila, Catholic Church Records, 1627-1978 with 98000 names, Mexico death index 1680-1940 with 362000 names. Mexico marriages Index 1640 - 1950. No one ever recorded with that name. So I looked to see if there was information of this person in the United States nothing no one listed over millions of people with that spelling. I looked at various spelling variations as the name might of been Latinised from an Anglo Saxon name? Nothing.

So I looked further afield and found that Laran is Etruscan word meaning"God of war" roaquerl could possibly be a Latinised version of a French name of Rouquayrol. So I searched french archive records. None of that name in Catholic records. France, Quimper et Léon Diocese, Catholic Parish Records, 1772-1910. In France, Protestant Church Records, 1612-1906 and series of names came up. Some mention a marriage of that name in 1854. however nothing conclusive. I even rechecked through Mexican Records. no Luck i am afraid.

There is nothing in the records recorded I have available under that name.

Sadly no Jamaican coffee for me.

Corp.

 

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[cactusjumper]

Corp,

Perhaps you will have better luck with the name, "Benoit Rouquayrol".

Joe Ribaudo

 

[lilorphanannie]

hi corp. i am overwhelmed and want to thank you for being so generous with your time to search for roaquerls larans name is your databases. i didn't really expect for you to look for it ,and would have been suprised if it had shown up ,although it has to be somewhere.you have done a lot for the solidarity and comradarie of us old treasure hunters. i hope someway i can return the favor . thanks again loa.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bk, coffee pot on, lance sharpened and mule ready, had to go on a quick Trip to Tucson to correct some records - no, not related to Tayopa. But looked at a dozen roses for ACorp but, sigh, after checking my Coffee money, I had to put a hold on it - typical male luv.

G'morning Annie my friend,

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Lliorphanannie It was my pleasure. I only wished to have found something more substantial.

Catisjumper thanks for the tip. the name you gave was interesting in itself. he was a mining engineer at one time.
Could he be the person Liliophanannie is searching for? I do not know.

Don Jose thank you for the offer of red Roses and the candle lit dinner would be charming I am sure.
But I suspect Lupita? Is more deserving than my humble efforts.

I am letting you know I might be able to get a contact in Italy that will pull strings for me.

In regards to the Jesuit archives. I will explain more below..

The Roman Jesuit Archives (Archivum Romanum Societatis Jesu – ARSI) are the archives
of the general government of the Society of Jesus.Situated in Rome in the General Curia of the
Order, their purpose is to preserve, to put in order, and to make available for research the
documents related to the general government of the Society of Jesus and its activities from the
beginning of its history in the sixteenth century up to the present day. As a privileged witness to
such a long past, ARSI is composed of three sections:

1. Documents of the so-called “Old Society” (1540-1773)
2. Documents of the so-called “New Society” (after 1814)
3. Archives of the Jesuit General Procurator (referred to in Italian and cited as the Fondo
Gesuitico).

Besides these three main sections, there are also other materials that are not directly
concerned with the general government of the Society of Jesus but which, for practical reasons,
should be considered as the fourth section of ARSI; we will call them here “Other archives”).
Each of the three main sections of ARSI as well as most of the “Other archives” section

Each of the three main sections of ARSI as well as most of the “Other archives” section
provide general inventories compiled by former archivists, who extended their work also to more
detailed inventories of many sections, or parts of a section, or even folio by folio descriptions of
single volumes. Some of these inventories are “by topic”, e.g. the inventory of the Japanese and
Chinese books1 or of the documents relating to the history of Poland.2 As a result, we have at our
disposal a series of inventories and indexes that are of great help for the purposes of research.

Our search Don Jose is... of course in the Documents of the so-called “Old Society” (1540-1773)

The documents of the Old Society are as Follows.

Assistancies and Provinces documents:

1. Formulas of Final vows
2. Catalogues
3. Letters received (e.g.Indipetae) and sent
4. Annual letters and other relations
5. Necrologies

Other documents

1. Congregations
2. Institute of the Society
3. Spiritual Exercises
4. History of the Society
5. Letters
6. Biographical materials (e.gr.Vitae)
7. Polemical Writings
8. Jesuit manuscripts.
9. Miscellanea


Our search will be in the Following..

Letters received and sent (Epistolae, Epistolae generalium):

From the very beginning of the Society letters were not only the main instrument of government (at the central or local
level) but also a link of communion between the members of the Order dispersed in different missions throughout the world.

Many of the letters pertaining to the activities of the General Superior are preserved in ARSI.

We will search the Letters received and sent via the names of Reverend Father Ignacio Maria De Retana.

I will see how far I can get?

Corp

 

[cactusjumper]

Corp,

"Catisjumper thanks for the tip. the name you gave was interesting in itself. he was a mining engineer at one time.
Could he be the person Liliophanannie is searching for? I do not know."
________________________________________

I knew Benoit Rouquayrol was not the person Liliophanannie was looking for. Benoit and his partner, August Denayrouze, invented a breathing apparatus for trapped miners around 1865. It soon evolved into a diving aid.

The search would need to be farther back in Rouquayrol's ancestry. I would look for the name in the early history of the French in America. Nothing solid, just a hunch when I saw Benoit's association with mining. Those kinds of connections often have a long life.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi luv, Lupita ?? so what does she have that you don't have multiples of?? Where did you read about her?? The search for Morgans Panama loot ?

As for the Jesuts, one must remember many did their work who were not ordained priests, but owed complete allegiance to Rome. Many of these were mining engr who controlled vast businesses who were completely loyal to Rome only. So when the Jesuits worked a mine, or other interests, the Society could say with a straight face and conscious . "no, we , the society, never engaged in mining. The poor mission priests that suffered and starved with his flock ,was an expendable sector in the scourge of 1767. in general He did not mine, but -----

The coadjutors simply faded away leaving the various mines, missions, and treasures for others. in another period.

The way that the the 1767 order was carried out, would only have been necessary if a plot was discovered and it was to be eliminated without time to form an resistance to it, not for mining as such, remember they had no place to run to.

You are doing just fantastic ACorp.

Will throw in a compete story about our redhaired Giants, AND the story on the Yaquis. and most early Indian tribs here being of a much smaller stature, say one meter..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Waiting...

Hola amigos,

Don Jose', aka Tropical Tramp wrote

You are doing just fantastic ACorp.

I must say DITTO! Excellenet research ACorp - hope you will share some more!

Don Jose, aka Real de Tayopa also wrote

Will throw in a compete story about our redhaired Giants, AND the story on the Yaquis. and most early Indian tribs here being of a much smaller stature, say one meter..

Don Jose de La Mancha

Thank you in advance, and we are going to hold you to this promise, just as we are all holding you to that promise to write the book!
Sign me patiently waiting,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Geeze Oro, the first 10 pages are through, what more do you expect from manana land ??

Itty bitty's Yaqui and other tribes further south--- Ole Juan loved telling me stories of the original Yaqui being of about 1 meter tall. He told e that certain bird of prey used to swoop down on lil Yaqui kiddies and carry them of for smorgasbord

Then one day a gigantic Negro appeared and took up the fight of the Yaqui. He used to scale the cliffs, destroy the nests and eggs tha then kill the parents with arrows etc. Eventully he managed to drive the birds into the interior leaving the Yaqui alone. When I saw his skeleton -- they claimed it was his skeleton in the cave - it appeared to be a normal man of just under 6 ft.

On the Gloria Pan search I was shown two settlements on top of two almost inaccessible mesas. The remains of some of the houses still remained. One used Adobie and rock, the other only rock.

Both were scaled to people the same size as the Yaqui. Even their utensils were scaled to the same size. You could stand next to one and place your arm on what remained the roof.

I had the men look carefully for any tools, manos or cooking utensils including one broken Matate - grinding stone -, etc, and bury them in the floor of the best ruin for any Archaeologists that might come some day. I left instructions on a large nearby rock with Ocote pitch smoke and carbon.

Nope no treasures in regards to Gold and Silver. I have no idea as to dating of them.

The Rio Fuerte lies about 3 miles south of the closest mesa, that is approx. where I found myself swimming nude with that huge aquatic serpent.

The access to the mesas was partially by cut steps.

Don Jose de La Mancha

As for the redheaded giants I have posted that story in here before. The burial caves lie approx 2 hrs by truck, then 2 days by mule or foot, The Cerro de la Campana - the bell hill.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

previous post regarding Giants.

Regarding the red haired giants here in north western Mexico, I have seen evidence personally, they do/did exist. also the diminutive people.

My first contact was about 1955 when I had walked to Chinapas in Southern Chihuahua from Alamos in Sonora, some 55 miles over a mountain range.. I was treated as the guest of honor in Chinapas since they had had no foreign visitors for some years, as a result they opened up their store of stories, from lost treasures to legends. Later the same thing happened while I was living with the Yaqui's. I seem to have a report with the natives, a confidence that I have worked hard to never betray.

The first reference to the giants came when one of the local Indians, knowing of my interest in History etc , took me to see the Cave with the inscriptions., "The Painted Cave'.

We left early one morning afoot and climbed steadily for hours until we finally reached a large sloughed off part of the cliff, almost at the crest. It was perhaps 25-30 ft high and 60- 70 ft long. It was literally covered with drawings with iron oxide making a reddish paint.

It actually ran from left to right starting at the top and working it's way down. They must have erected some form of scaffolding to work the upper parts. I questioned my guide as to who had done this, he merely shrugged and said "The old ones".

Whoever had done it had duplicated life size the foot prints of every living creature of the region. There were human foot prints, deer, mice, etc. . but what impressed me most was the print of a human foot, perhaps 20 - 24 " long in perfect detail. I asked him why were they soo big, he replied "that was their size".

When we returned to Chinipas, I commenced to question different people about these giant foot prints. One gentleman told me that the last one had been killed about 1900. His father had killed him when he encountered the giant on his land. I asked him "Why"?, he merely shrugged and said "it seemed right at the time.". sheesh.

later, back in Alamos, a schoolteacher in Camotes, a small village nearby, sent for Me to go see the skull of a giant. Naturally I went. He had the skull on top of a table in his dinning room, along with a femur. Frankly I do not remember the exact details now, but it was approximately 1/3 + larger than a normal human skull. The femur was about the same in length. Crude estimates would place this giant at around 9-10 tall.the skull was still covered with wisps of reddish hair.

He told me that it had come from the giants' burial caves in the nearby "Cerro de La Campana", the bell hill. It lay approx, a days ride by mule north east in view. but he couldn't go just then. Before we managed to get together he was transferred to Mexico city.

I have always intended to go investigate, but something always took precedence. sniff.

Up at Tayopa one of the local; Indians found a sealed cave. He opened it with expectations of having found a treasure site, but only found two giants wrapped in woven cloth. He was so disgusted that he threw them down the face of the diff. I told him to go retrieve them and that I would pay him good money for them. However, when he went, he could not find them. i told him that he had probably destroyed a true treasure in both $ and history He has since passed the word around to take care of any future finds and report them to me...

I will be returning there in a month or so to finish Tayopa, we shall see what may have developed.

I also had contact with the small people, which i will talk about tomorrow..

Don Jose de la Mancha Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

Great stories amigo! You have fulfilled two of your three promises, and yes ten pages is a start, but I seriously doubt that ten pages is going to tell the story of Tayopa, much less your life.

More please, do continue!
Oroblanco

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello

I hope this goes through It appears I have some issues with access to treasurenet.

In regards to Don Jose comments about a African American and Yaqui?

Corp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd evening ACorp luv. The black gentleman that I referred to was many many generation before that episode. Your gentleman would have been active around the turn of the
1800 / 1900's

The Yaqui were an interesting tribe in that they welcomed large - to them - men into their tribe with the intention of having their children much larger. thus increasing the size of their warriors. It worked nicely.

I doubt that there is such a thing as a pure blood Yaqui, or has been for many centuries.

That was a very interesting post on the deserter and the Yaqui . MORE !

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro de Tayopo, doesn't anything that I do please you ? Sheesh I thought that you, and ACorp, would be proud of me having finished 10 pages in only 12 years. Slave drivers. Remember I still have 60 years to finish it.

Watched an Italian version of Custer last night, for some reason the thought kept floating around in my mind that he was deliberately made expendable to create an Indian problem to eliminate them, and open the Territory up, especially since the RR had to be laid through there to open up the west, and lots of gold would be available for the US market.

Some day we have to discuss this over fresh, hot, sock coffee..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro de Tayopo, doesn't anything that I do please you ? Sheesh I thought that you, and ACorp, would be proud of me having finished 10 pages in only 12 years. Slave drivers. Remember I still have 60 years to finish it.

Watched an Italian version of Custer last night, for some reason the thought kept floating around in my mind that he was deliberately made expendable to create an Indian problem to eliminate them, and open the Territory up, especially since the RR had to be laid through there to open up the west, and lots of gold would be available for the US market.

Some day we have to discuss this over fresh, hot, sock coffee..

Don Jose de La Mancha

You have hit on more than you realize amigo; I wish we could discuss that topic openly but cannot, and I don't wish to derail this thread so will wait and look forward to that evening by the campfire. Bring an extra sock for the coffee, if you wouldn't mind? I think some of the info that has turned up, might shock even you!

I am hoping also that you will have that first draft ready by the time of our rendezvous?
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I agree 100% Oro de Tayopa, it is not applicable here. This is ACorp's fantastic thread.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Orphan Annie some day we just have to get together over Oro de Tayops' sock coffee. You have sooo much data that I wish to mine. La ACorp is probly looking very dizzy right now from scanning soo many documents, She has done a magnificent job so far-- I hope that she can crash into the Jesuit secret files, 'the need to know' ones that are not available to perhaps 99.5 % of the Jesuits.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning my friends: The pictures of the skeleton cave still haven't arrived, I am getting a bit testy. I want and need them for many reasons, including my own ego to assure me that I am not tooo off the beacon of normalcy in my / our plans of recovery and development of Tayopa...

At the moment I am persuing a parallel path to help keep up with the expenditures,to which a mutaul friend has practically assured me that I am on a collision course with dreaming too much, In other words forget it.

Tayopa is mine, mine, after all am I not a rencarnated Jesuit??

Seriously my friends, things are going along fairly normally - too slow.

Will keep you advised.

Poor ACorp had an almost impossible job, trying to dig up data on a project that the so called "masters of international intrigue and secrecy"specifically tried to eliminate all references to, and relegating what ever records that were saved to a highly restricted section in he Archives in Rome,that only the highest echelon has access to. Even so she did a very fine bit of research Gracias, our lovely Amy..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Don Jose

Sorry I have not posted for awhile.

Please forgive me as I have briefed about other tasks. I still have some avenues to search at my disposal. Thank you all for the thumbs up.

I will be back soon

Corp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sigh Acorp, so you have finally posted your picture, sigh A fantastic combination of beauty & Brains.. pssst ORO do you know where I can get a quick, cheap divorce, or an introduction to the Mormon Religion? After all what is a mere 63 years difference ??

Seriously, a bit off of the basic factor but one day when I was checking the Remedios mine, the terrain is flat on top but rapidly comes to a narrow point to the south. There are cliffs of perhaps 1 - 200 ft on both sides.

As I was walking to the point, I suddenly noticed a huge black dog appear on the left, then completely ignoring me, trotted to the right,where he simply disappeared over the edge of the cliff.

Thinking that he must be one of the ranchers dogs, I checked to see if he was ok, however, no dog, nor were there any foot prints

He had appeared and disappeared on sheer cliffs on both side, leaving no evdence of his passing.

When I told the people at the Saw mill about this, thinking that the dog might be one of theirs, most became wide eyed and unanimously said " That is a spirit dog. He appears only to 'certain' people and is 'always' an indication of a mine or mineral deposit near by? "

For some reason I completely forgot as to just where I had seen this Dog under their questioning., .

Curiously, , he had actually crossed at right angles to the mineral structure of the Remedios mine


Don Jose de La Mancha who is now in love with ACorp sigh. even willing to share my coffee with her.