Ely's description of where Ruth's body was found - an experiment...

[PotBelly Jim]

Paul,

Not sure that Matthew places any importance to that saddle, or any of my theories concerning it.

Admittedly, my own focus is on Ely's description of the site where the body was found overlooks West Boulder. On top of that nebulous comment, is the fact that someone, cleverly, placed the Stone Map Trail directly through the Saddle. It ends at the heart outcropping that I have posted numerous times. It may all be coincidence, but I like how it all dovetails so nicely. In addition to that, Harry LaFrance also tripped through that area. Barry Storm claimed to have found a rich piece of float ore in Old West Boulder Canyon which, relatively speaking, is just around the corner.

The ridge that continues southward from the saddle has some interesting stories of mines as told , I believe, by Matthew.

More later.

Take care,

Joe

Somewhere, in a box, I have the letter from Adolph Ruth talking about magnetite. I believe that is the outcropping we found in Little Boulder Canyon, just below the saddle. (East)

Joe, that adds another very strange aspect to this story. There is only one reason to be looking for Magnesite in the 1930's. Kind of a backwater mineral in regards to searching for lost gold mines...It leads me to believe Ruth understood the national security interests of that particular mineral at that time in history. Not just what it was used for, but where specifically it was produced and who we were likely to be at war with and therefore DENIED that mineral....Why else would he be looking for it? Now how could Ruth have run across that little tidbit? This story just gets stranger and stranger...but it probably doesn't lead to the LDM! Best regards, Jim

 

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[azdave35]

Paul,

Not sure that Matthew places any importance to that saddle, or any of my theories concerning it.

Admittedly, my own focus is on Ely's description of the site where the body was found overlooks West Boulder. On top of that nebulous comment, is the fact that someone, cleverly, placed the Stone Map Trail directly through the Saddle. It ends at the heart outcropping that I have posted numerous times. It may all be coincidence, but I like how it all dovetails so nicely. In addition to that, Harry LaFrance also tripped through that area. Barry Storm claimed to have found a rich piece of float ore in Old West Boulder Canyon which, relatively speaking, is just around the corner.

The ridge that continues southward from the saddle has some interesting stories of mines as told , I believe, by Matthew.

More later.

Take care,

Joe

Somewhere, in a box, I have the letter from Adolph Ruth talking about magnetite. I believe that is the outcropping we found in Little Boulder Canyon, just below the saddle. (East)

joe...did you mean to say magnetite or magnesite?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

joe...did you mean to say magnetite or magnesite?

azdave35,

It's magnetite and it can be found in all the major washes of the Superstition Mountains as well as the major tributary canyons.

As you know, finding a large accumulation of Magnetite would be valuable as gold usually accumulated in the same places along with it.

Magnetite is the fine black heavy sand that when you pan is left when nothing but the gold and black sand remain in your pan.

Magnetite is not found in the Superstitions in commercially mineable native deposits it is a byproduct of the iron that erodes out of plutonic granite. It is almost everywhere in the Superstitions in the form of fine black sand.

If Adolph Ruth knew of a LARGE/RICh accumulation of this fine heavy black sand Magnetite there was a good chance there might be gold there with it.

Prospectors have claimed rich placer deposits of this black sand Magnetite for the gold that accumulates with it.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

azdave35,

Clay Worst and I dug down to bedrock at a place in a canyon on Tortilla Mountain years ago and panned out some gold placer. The black sand magnetite that was left in the pan with the gold when looked at under a microscope was perfectly round like tiny BB's. The black sand was magnetic and easily attracted to Clay's pocket magnet. Clay said the gold placer looked as if it had not traveled far in that canyon.

Matthew

Placer gold and heavy black sand magnetite in a pan.

 

[azdave35]

azdave35,

It's magnetite and it can be found in all the major washes of the Superstition Mountains as well as the major tributary canyons.

As you know, finding a large accumulation of Magnetite would be valuable as gold usually accumulated in the same places along with it.

Magnetite is the fine black heavy sand that when you pan is left when nothing but the gold and black sand remain in your pan.

Magnetite is not found in the Superstitions in commercially mineable native deposits it is a byproduct of the iron that erodes out of plutonic granite. It is almost everywhere in the Superstitions in the form of fine black sand.

If Adolph Ruth knew of a LARGE/RICh accumulation of this fine heavy black sand Magnetite there was a good chance there might be gold there with it.

Prospectors have claimed rich placer deposits of this black sand Magnetite for the gold that accumulates with it.

Matthew

lol..i thought he meant magnetite (iron).we use magnesite alot for lapidary...some of it is quite nice..there are some decent deposits up by your place in new river but i've never heard of any in the supers

 

[Cubfan64]

Hey guys... Slow down and let Joe respond if you would. I know we've already gotten off topic, but we're starting to fly off even further into the brush .

Joe - Could you clarify whether the outcropping you found was magnetite (a ferrous/ferric oxide with magnetic properties) or magnesite (magnesium carbonate)?

The other part of the question is whether the letter from Ruth found within the collection that Eleanor shared with Garry Cundiff in which he mentioned a metal ore from New Mexico - I remember the letter, but for the life of me I can't recall now whether he mentions magnetite, magnesium or manganese - if someone can find the letter (I'll look tonight), that would help substantially.

I'm going to be a stubborn a$$ here and re-ask a couple questions. If the answers are "I'd rather not share that information" for whatever reason, that's fine and please just say so, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask them:

Joe - you stated the following in an earlier post - can you clarify as I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed...

I have always believed that someone was being protected by a powerful presence of the time. The fact that that same person's family member was being taken advantage of by Ruth's son, created something of a vendetta against the Ruth family.

Matthew - you stated earlier in response to Joe's area of interest on the saddle between West and Little Boulder Canyon - can you clarify what makes this a "hot area?"

Yes, now I know where you are talking about, the saddle east of Tim's saddle and on the east side of West Boulder Canyon.
That is indeed a hot area

Matthew - I know you've mentioned it in other posts and not this one yet, but you've implied that you've at least seen the sheriff's dept. records of the Adolph Ruth investigation before they were destroyed (I don't recall if you ever said that you found them or copied them from Al or Clay or someone else who had obtained them). Would you be willing or at liberty to share those records for the sake of discussion? You know the LDM community is always eager for new information since at this stage of the game we primarily re-hash old stuff.

Thanks

 

[cactusjumper]

Guys,

I took some of the rocks from this outcropping to a friend who used to prospect for gold in South America for big mining companies:



He identified it as magnetite. Then again, he also said the Superstitions were, basically, barren of minerals like gold. When I told him that's where the samples came from he just raised his eyebrows.

The outcropping is not hard to find. Go to my heart outcropping look north down into this just below the heart:



The magnetite outcropping can be found in the middle of this triangle shaped growth. You will need to get down on your hands and knees and take a good machete along with you. I would have no idea if it has commercial value, but I'm sure it's magnetite. I do trust my source for that.

I will need to try and find Ruth's letters from Jal.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[PotBelly Jim]

lol..i thought he meant magnetite (iron).we use magnesite alot for lapidary...some of it is quite nice..there are some decent deposits up by your place in new river but i've never heard of any in the supers

I haven’t seen the letter, but Joe first said “Magnesite” in his first post, then “Magnetite” in his second.


Magnesite can indeed be very clear and gemmy...in the 1930’s, the majority of it was mined in Austria. While we had mines here in the US, it couldn’t be mined very profitably because foreign producers had much cheaper labor. So it became a national defense priority, even though US companies during peacetime preferred to get it from overseas, cheap suppliers.


Magnesite was boring, but critical in steel, magnesium, CO2 and explosive manufacturing. So you can see why the US govt was concerned about our domestic production. Now if Ruth was in fact looking for “magnetite”, then none of it matters. If he was looking for magnesite, in the late 20’s early 30’s, than that creates a whole new mess. Personally, I’m keeping my fingers crossed and hope what he was looking for was really magnetite!

EDIT: Sorry, Paul...didn't see yours or Joe's posts until after I posted this. I'm back on track for the thread!

 

[Cubfan64]

Guys,

I took some of the rocks from this outcropping to a friend who used to prospect for gold in South America for big mining companies:



He identified it as magnetite. Then again, he also said the Superstitions were, basically, barren of minerals like gold. When I told him that's where the samples came from he just raised his eyebrows.

The outcropping is not hard to find. Go to my heart outcropping look north down into this just below the heart:



The magnetite outcropping can be found in the middle of this triangle shaped growth. You will need to get down on your hands and knees and take a good machete along with you. I would have no idea if it has commercial value, but I'm sure it's magnetite. I do trust my source for that.

I will need to try and find Ruth's letters from Jal.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe - well color me very confused now...

I found the little scrap paper (page 2) of a letter that Eleanor included in her collection to Garry that mentions Jal and Ochoa. Nowhere in that letter does it mention magnetite, magnesium or manganese.

I don't know if it's appropriate to copy and paste from another forum but I'll do it anyways and if you want it removed I will, but you wrote this on the Feldman's forum back in 2006 and I found a few other places you mentioned manganese...

[h=3]Conclusions[/h]

• http://thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=9851

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:51 pm
[FONT=&quot]Garry,

"1. The Horse/Priest Map wasn't required to solve the location of the cache/mine?"

"While I know the trail, from start to finish, I can only guess at where the treasure, mine, cache.....whatever, is."

"2. The back sides of the stone maps that have the word DON and the Cross Figure weren't required?"

They are not required for my conclusions.

"3. The back side of the Heart Stone with the 6 Zeros wasn't required?"

Same answer.

"Your solution only required the two maps with the beaded figures placed together and the cavity and the Stone Heart?"

I believe the cavity has only one meaning. The treasure is below the heart. A large outcropping of Manganese lies below the heart and is part of the triangle at the end of the trail. You can take that last sentence to the bank.

I will send you a picture of the outcropping. Please do not pass it along.

Other than that, you are doing fine.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[/FONT]

​

 

[Matthew Roberts]

cactusjumper, Cubfan64,

Manganese makes sense.

Both Sheridan and Jinks in their geology reports noted good deposits of Manganese in several places in the Superstitions.
There is a fairly good large area of Manganese they noted on the northwest side of Bluff Spring Mountain.

Neither magnetite nor magnesite occur in native deposits according to Sheridan. But magnetite is widely distributed by the erosion of the tiny specks of it formed at the same time the granite formed.
Pick up a piece of Dacite or Rhyolite sometime and look closely at it. You will see tiny black specks all throughout it. That is magnetite that erodes out and is the black sand that ends up in all the washes.

Yes, Manganese makes sense and fits.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Cubfan64,

The reason I mentioned the saddle area directly east of Tim’s saddle and on the east side of West Boulder Canyon as a “hot area” is:

From that saddle you have a beautiful view of Weavers Needle as “some people say,” looks like the view Adolph Ruth was looking for.

Also there were old mining claims on the ridge with that saddle and at one time there were large claim markers with rock piled and stacked 6 feet high or more. Not only in that ridgetop saddle but also to the ridge directly south and the saddles on that ridge overlooking West Boulder Canyon. Old newspaper accounts tell of prospecting/mining efforts in that area by the same men who discovered the Mammoth mine at goldfield. There is little left of the mining on those ridge saddles today save for a few shallow holes. All of the old 6-foot high rock pile markers are gone today. I don’t know who destroyed them but I strongly suspect the Forest Service.

Matthew

 

[Cubfan64]

Cubfan64,

The reason I mentioned the saddle area directly east of Tim’s saddle and on the east side of West Boulder Canyon as a “hot area” is:

From that saddle you have a beautiful view of Weavers Needle as “some people say,” looks like the view Adolph Ruth was looking for.

Also there were old mining claims on the ridge with that saddle and at one time there were large claim markers with rock piled and stacked 6 feet high or more. Not only in that ridgetop saddle but also to the ridge directly south and the saddles on that ridge overlooking West Boulder Canyon. Old newspaper accounts tell of prospecting/mining efforts in that area by the same men who discovered the Mammoth mine at goldfield. There is little left of the mining on those ridge saddles today save for a few shallow holes. All of the old 6-foot high rock pile markers are gone today. I don’t know who destroyed them but I strongly suspect the Forest Service.

Matthew

Thank you Matthew - either I never knew the history of that area or just forgot those discussions on other forums over the years. As soon as I saw your description of the 6 foot high rock piles it reminded me of Joe's description of the rock "monuments" his brother saw on the ridge above West Boulder (Joe - I don't remember if you said you saw them or it was just your brother?) I do remember you posting a drawing of what they looked like - they weren't rock "piles" but rather well stacked/fitted monuments with sight holes if I recall. They don't match the description of rock piles, but they were definitely in that general area.

Interesting stuff

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Thanks for the warm welcome Jim. I am not too familiar with Robert E. Lee, but I was more referring to Walter Gassler's account. In his notes he stated that Tex Barkley told him about moving Adolf Ruth's body from Peter's Mesa. I don't see why Tex or Walter would have lied about that conversation. Do you feel Walter's notes are inaccurate or altered?

Thanks for your input,

KRATOS

Yes, altered. I can't be certain exactly how in each instance because I've never seen Mr. Gassler's original notes. At least I don't think I have. Regardless, Bob Lee seems to have been an interesting guy, and well liked. Did he come up with the Tex/Ruth/Peters Mesa story? I know people that think so. I'm not so sure he didn't think it was absolutely true. But he was a film producer, and he had a job to do. He may also have gotten the story, in some form, or complete, from Mr. Gassler. What I won't do is say that I believe anybody lied. Because I just don't know, and those people have passed on and I can't ask them. I also don't believe Tex Barkley ever moved Ruth's body, period, whether it was from Peter's Mesa or West Boulder or the moon. I also believe Brownie found that skull right where he said he did, and he had no involvement other than that. Just my opinion, but I believe a well founded one.

Regarding the topic at hand, I think I know what Joe means about a vendetta against Ruth (Erwin). I would like to second Paul and ask Joe to elaborate. Bark's letter that Paul transcribed also alludes to some angle Erwin was working, in that particular instance, involving Brownie. Bark doesn't think Erwin's going to outsmart Brownie.

Another seconding, of Paul's request to Matthew, to release the information he has from the Sheriff's Office. This is assuming you can, Matthew. Realize doing so might give away something you'd rather not, as you're search is ongoing. But if you can share them, please do. I don't want to pester you, or Joe for that matter, but Paul's not the only one that wants to know.

Time for me to go split some more firewood. Happy Saturday to all! Best regards, Jim

 

[Matthew Roberts]

PotBelly Jim posted the following:

"Yes, altered. I can't be certain exactly how in each instance because I've never seen Mr. Gassler's original notes. At least I don't think I have. Regardless, Bob Lee seems to have been an interesting guy, and well liked. Did he come up with the Tex/Ruth/Peters Mesa story? I know people that think so. I'm not so sure he didn't think it was absolutely true. But he was a film producer, and he had a job to do. He may also have gotten the story, in some form, or complete, from Mr. Gassler. What I won't do is say that I believe anybody lied. Because I just don't know, and those people have passed on and I can't ask them. I also don't believe Tex Barkley ever moved Ruth's body, period, whether it was from Peter's Mesa or West Boulder or the moon. I also believe Brownie found that skull right where he said he did, and he had no involvement other than that. Just my opinion, but I believe a well founded one."

PotBelly Jim,

Robert E. Lee was in the Superstition Mountains filming his documentary for his book, The Lost Dutchman Mine in 1960 and again in 1962 and again in 1974. Lee's book came out in 1975.
Walter Gassler and Robert Lee did not meet each other until 1982. I have copies of all Walter's correspondence with Lee and he introduces himself to Lee in a letter dated 1982.

Walter was writing his manuscript and wanted Lee to do a film documentary and book on his experiences in the Superstitions.
Several letters went back and forth between Walter and Lee. Walter sent Lee his finished manuscript in 1983. It was hand written, not typed. I have a copy of Walters original hand written manuscript Part I 48 pages, Part II 7 pages, and a 12 page addition titled: The Incredible Puzzle of Waltz's Lost Mine.

On pages 18-21 of Walter's hand written manuscript Part I he tells the story of Tex Barkley finding Adolph Ruth's body on Peters Mesa and moving it down to where it was eventually found.
That is the first time Robert Lee learns of the Barkley-Ruth account.

Walter's manuscript was not typed until after his death. His daughter typed the manuscript and I also have a copy of the typed manuscript.
There are no differences between the written and typed version other than grammar and punctuation changes.

Walter also gave me his map, not a copy of his map, the map he used when in the mountains and he marked on that map the exact spot on Peters Mesa where Tex showed him he found Ruth's body.
Walter established his camp on Peters Mesa in a thick Laurel grove of trees not far from that spot.

Walter told me it was Tex Barkley and another man, Tom Dickens who moved Ruth's body.
Robert Lee was not involved in the Tex Barkley-Adolph Ruth account other than he learned the story from Walter in 1983.
To discount the Barkley-Ruth account you have to call Walter Gassler an outright liar. Walter genuinely believed what Tex Barkley told him and I cannot believe Walter made the story up.

Best,

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

PotBelly Jim posted the following:

"Yes, altered. I can't be certain exactly how in each instance because I've never seen Mr. Gassler's original notes. At least I don't think I have. Regardless, Bob Lee seems to have been an interesting guy, and well liked. Did he come up with the Tex/Ruth/Peters Mesa story? I know people that think so. I'm not so sure he didn't think it was absolutely true. But he was a film producer, and he had a job to do. He may also have gotten the story, in some form, or complete, from Mr. Gassler. What I won't do is say that I believe anybody lied. Because I just don't know, and those people have passed on and I can't ask them. I also don't believe Tex Barkley ever moved Ruth's body, period, whether it was from Peter's Mesa or West Boulder or the moon. I also believe Brownie found that skull right where he said he did, and he had no involvement other than that. Just my opinion, but I believe a well founded one."

PotBelly Jim,

Robert E. Lee was in the Superstition Mountains filming his documentary for his book, The Lost Dutchman Mine in 1960 and again in 1962 and again in 1974. Lee's book came out in 1975.
Walter Gassler and Robert Lee did not meet each other until 1982. I have copies of all Walter's correspondence with Lee and he introduces himself to Lee in a letter dated 1982.

Walter was writing his manuscript and wanted Lee to do a film documentary and book on his experiences in the Superstitions.
Several letters went back and forth between Walter and Lee. Walter sent Lee his finished manuscript in 1983. It was hand written, not typed. I have a copy of Walters original hand written manuscript Part I 48 pages, Part II 7 pages, and a 12 page addition titled: The Incredible Puzzle of Waltz's Lost Mine.

On pages 18-21 of Walter's hand written manuscript Part I he tells the story of Tex Barkley finding Adolph Ruth's body on Peters Mesa and moving it down to where it was eventually found.
That is the first time Robert Lee learns of the Barkley-Ruth account.

Walter's manuscript was not typed until after his death. His daughter typed the manuscript and I also have a copy of the typed manuscript.
There are no differences between the written and typed version other than grammar and punctuation changes.

Walter also gave me his map, not a copy of his map, the map he used when in the mountains and he marked on that map the exact spot on Peters Mesa where Tex showed him he found Ruth's body.
Walter established his camp on Peters Mesa in a thick Laurel grove of trees not far from that spot.

Walter told me it was Tex Barkley and another man, Tom Dickens who moved Ruth's body.
Robert Lee was not involved in the Tex Barkley-Adolph Ruth account other than he learned the story from Walter in 1983.
To discount the Barkley-Ruth account you have to call Walter Gassler an outright liar. Walter genuinely believed what Tex Barkley told him and I cannot believe Walter made the story up.

Best,

Matthew

matthew...did Tex ever tell Walt why he moved Ruth's body?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

matthew...did Tex ever tell Walt why he moved Ruth's body?

azdave35,

In Walter's manuscript he writes Tex did not want a lot of people coming up on the Mesa and scattering his cattle all the way to the Salt River.

That was partly true but of course not the only reason.

Matthew

 

[PotBelly Jim]

PotBelly Jim posted the following:

"Yes, altered. I can't be certain exactly how in each instance because I've never seen Mr. Gassler's original notes. At least I don't think I have. Regardless, Bob Lee seems to have been an interesting guy, and well liked. Did he come up with the Tex/Ruth/Peters Mesa story? I know people that think so. I'm not so sure he didn't think it was absolutely true. But he was a film producer, and he had a job to do. He may also have gotten the story, in some form, or complete, from Mr. Gassler. What I won't do is say that I believe anybody lied. Because I just don't know, and those people have passed on and I can't ask them. I also don't believe Tex Barkley ever moved Ruth's body, period, whether it was from Peter's Mesa or West Boulder or the moon. I also believe Brownie found that skull right where he said he did, and he had no involvement other than that. Just my opinion, but I believe a well founded one."

PotBelly Jim,

Robert E. Lee was in the Superstition Mountains filming his documentary for his book, The Lost Dutchman Mine in 1960 and again in 1962 and again in 1974. Lee's book came out in 1975.
Walter Gassler and Robert Lee did not meet each other until 1982. I have copies of all Walter's correspondence with Lee and he introduces himself to Lee in a letter dated 1982.

Walter was writing his manuscript and wanted Lee to do a film documentary and book on his experiences in the Superstitions.
Several letters went back and forth between Walter and Lee. Walter sent Lee his finished manuscript in 1983. It was hand written, not typed. I have a copy of Walters original hand written manuscript Part I 48 pages, Part II 7 pages, and a 12 page addition titled: The Incredible Puzzle of Waltz's Lost Mine.

On pages 18-21 of Walter's hand written manuscript Part I he tells the story of Tex Barkley finding Adolph Ruth's body on Peters Mesa and moving it down to where it was eventually found.
That is the first time Robert Lee learns of the Barkley-Ruth account.

Walter's manuscript was not typed until after his death. His daughter typed the manuscript and I also have a copy of the typed manuscript.
There are no differences between the written and typed version other than grammar and punctuation changes.

Walter also gave me his map, not a copy of his map, the map he used when in the mountains and he marked on that map the exact spot on Peters Mesa where Tex showed him he found Ruth's body.
Walter established his camp on Peters Mesa in a thick Laurel grove of trees not far from that spot.

Walter told me it was Tex Barkley and another man, Tom Dickens who moved Ruth's body.
Robert Lee was not involved in the Tex Barkley-Adolph Ruth account other than he learned the story from Walter in 1983.
To discount the Barkley-Ruth account you have to call Walter Gassler an outright liar. Walter genuinely believed what Tex Barkley told him and I cannot believe Walter made the story up.

Best,

Matthew

Hi Matthew,

Just a quick note as I'm in a bit of a rush, but I did want to get on here and thank you for your detailed (as usual!) and well thought-out post. I normally don't make black-and-white statements on these forums because I find it's just impossible to know certain things at this point in time and also since I wasn't there. The only thing I would say in response is I believe my conclusion about Tex never moving Ruth's body can be explained, (at least to my own personal satisfaction ) without needing to call someone a liar. Personally, if I came to that conclusion about someone who is deceased, I would keep my mouth shut and just move on...I try not to take this stuff so seriously that every little thing I believe MUST be the truth!

Thanks again, Jim

 

[azdave35]

azdave35,

In Walter's manuscript he writes Tex did not want a lot of people coming up on the Mesa and scattering his cattle all the way to the Salt River.

That was partly true but of course not the only reason.

Matthew

matthew...i also read somewhere (possibly cox notes or one of feldmans books ) that ted saw abe reed hauling ruth's body on a burro..coming from iron mountain...ted claims ruth was killed on the east end and hauled to the west end

 

[PotBelly Jim]

matthew...i also read somewhere (possibly cox notes or one of feldmans books ) that ted saw abe reed hauling ruth's body on a burro..coming from iron mountain...ted claims ruth was killed on the east end and hauled to the west end

Hey Dave...sittin in car outside store waitin on wife unit...both Jesse's book and Cox notes...but originated with Cox...so thats my point. I dont really believe the story, do you? But I wouldnt say Jesse or Cox is lying.

Just like when I read the bible I believe in God, but then it says the world was created in 7 days...so I could jump to the conclusion that the guy that wrote it was a liar and move on...then some pointy headed astrophysicist comes along and says based on physics, the universe is only 7 days old at the point in space where the big bang occurred...So I just figure its not a good idea to say someone is lying just because the evidence one has at the time doesnt jibe with the story...

 

[azdave35]

Hey Dave...sittin in car outside store waitin on wife unit...both Jesse's book and Cox notes...but originated with Cox...so thats my point. I dont really believe the story, do you? But I wouldnt say Jesse or Cox is lying.

Just like when I read the bible I believe in God, but then it says the world was created in 7 days...so I could jump to the conclusion that the guy that wrote it was a liar and move on...then some pointy headed astrophysicist comes along and says based on physics, the universe is only 7 days old at the point in space where the big bang occurred...So I just figure its not a good idea to say someone is lying just because the evidence one has at the time doesnt jibe with the story...

jim...i know the feldmans and can vouch for them...ted on the other hand...i never met him...the feldmans believe what cox wrote because they have investigated much of cox's writings and they checked out just like cox said...when i was a teenager cox used to write articles in treasure and western magazines..i read them and at the time i wrote cox off as being nuts...now i wish i would have paid more attention ...lol...there was another ldm hunter that i wrote off as being nuts ...he tried to pass on alot of info to me and i didnt listen...and now i kick myself....