Msbeepbeep
Gold Member
- Jun 24, 2012
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Alot of us are not charter members, how are we not genuine?
Forrest Fenn s treasure
- Thread starter themarkd
- Start date
Ryano
Hero Member
It should be noted he People magazine article linked earlier in this thread doesn't state Fenn is deceiving customers with art forgeries. Everyone that visits his gallery is well aware they are masterpiece reproductions by a famous forger - in fact, that is where the value is.
Just because several people have died through their own recklessness searching for the treasure (whereas thousands of other questers have safely searched) does not prove nefarious intent by Fenn.
People have died and that is sad but Fenn has repeatedly warned the chest is not in a dangerous location. Yet some people convinced themselves they needed to cross raging rivers without safety equipment or venture alone in the desert heat.
Just because several people have died through their own recklessness searching for the treasure (whereas thousands of other questers have safely searched) does not prove nefarious intent by Fenn.
People have died and that is sad but Fenn has repeatedly warned the chest is not in a dangerous location. Yet some people convinced themselves they needed to cross raging rivers without safety equipment or venture alone in the desert heat.
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
Possibly the "blaze?"
Got the photo from the Castle Gardens access road, taken on Sunday, August 20, 2017. (mid-afternoon)
As you can see, two people are on top of it. It has that sort of drawing power when seen in person. You're literally pulled toward it, if it is not too much trouble on your itinerary.
In person, it is strikingly red, especially from sunlight lighting it.
Except for the Total Solar Eclipse 2017 reason for being at Castle Gardens, WY, no one would even bother with climbing this rock formation.
They would notice it when passing by, en route to the petroglyphs, but most of the time the area of Castle Gardens is extremely remote, and desolate therefore.
Let's say that the treasure is right there, just for the fun of it.
If I were Forrest hiding it there, I would have placed it under one of the overhang ledges, probably would have secreted it a little more than just placing it so that wind erosion would not expose the treasure chest over time, and maybe I would have placed it on the northerly side, so that it was not facing the road.
The people who climbed up on it would have had no interest in searching around the rock, other than to find an easy way up.
It truly would be funny if it really is hidden there. It would be especially funny if someone were to ask Forrest if searchers had since come closer than 200-feet of the treasure since he had last commented on proximity of anyone coming to it.
But, he would just bat the question away, easily, with an honest answer of, "Searchers? No, 'searchers' for Indulgence have not come closer than 200-feet."
- Bob
Got the photo from the Castle Gardens access road, taken on Sunday, August 20, 2017. (mid-afternoon)
As you can see, two people are on top of it. It has that sort of drawing power when seen in person. You're literally pulled toward it, if it is not too much trouble on your itinerary.
In person, it is strikingly red, especially from sunlight lighting it.
Except for the Total Solar Eclipse 2017 reason for being at Castle Gardens, WY, no one would even bother with climbing this rock formation.
They would notice it when passing by, en route to the petroglyphs, but most of the time the area of Castle Gardens is extremely remote, and desolate therefore.
Let's say that the treasure is right there, just for the fun of it.
If I were Forrest hiding it there, I would have placed it under one of the overhang ledges, probably would have secreted it a little more than just placing it so that wind erosion would not expose the treasure chest over time, and maybe I would have placed it on the northerly side, so that it was not facing the road.
The people who climbed up on it would have had no interest in searching around the rock, other than to find an easy way up.
It truly would be funny if it really is hidden there. It would be especially funny if someone were to ask Forrest if searchers had since come closer than 200-feet of the treasure since he had last commented on proximity of anyone coming to it.
But, he would just bat the question away, easily, with an honest answer of, "Searchers? No, 'searchers' for Indulgence have not come closer than 200-feet."
- Bob
The guy is a bully and a narcissist, the key is in the references to the olive jar, and he is only doing this for attention and his own amusement. Here are the characteristics of these kinds of people.
1. He was extremely likable when you first met.
Narcissists can be charming and personable at first glance. They make great first impressions and will go out of their way for you, making you believe in their wonderfulness.
2. He takes his time, but will eventually show his true colors.
Narcissists know how to bide their time and make you feel very special. You will be deceived for a while until they know they have you, hook, line, and sinker.
3. He is his favorite subject to talk about.
Narcissists love to talk, mostly about themselves since they are preoccupied with themselves. They will turn every conversation around to be about their favorite topic, you guessed it, themselves. You will barely get a word in edgewise.
4. He knows important people and likes to name drop.
Narcissists have an exaggerated self-importance so will frequently talk of the important people he knows and will name drop to impress. He wants to make sure you and everyone else he knows is impressed with his greatness.
5. He settles for nothing but the best.
A narcissist loves nice things and will only buy designer names because it is a symbol of higher status. His outward image is more important than their inner reality.
6. He spends a lot of time on his appearance.
A narcissist will spend a lot of time on making sure he looks perfect. His family members must also look perfect since outward appearances matter a great deal to him. And, how you look reflects upon his greatness.
7. He loves showing off on social media.
Narcissists love social media and claiming as many friends or followers as possible. They love to self-promote their comings and goings and will post tons of selfies while always looking picture perfect.
8. His needs are the most important.
In a narcissist’s world, all is good if his needs are met. He expects you to plan your life around his needs.
9. He takes but he rarely gives in return.
Before you know it, the man that was once happily giving you his attention and love has done a 180 and is now the constant taker. He thinks he deserves all the attention and could care less if you are without.
10. He takes EVERYTHING personally.
The narcissist must be recognized for their greatness, or like a toddler will have major temper tantrums. If you disagree with him, then you are the problem and will be on the wrong end of his anger.
11. He lacks empathy for others.
The narcissist is completely insensitive toward the feelings of others, even his so-called loved ones. You think he is on your side, but soon enough you’ll learn that he could care less whether he has done something to hurt you or not.
12. He believes he’s superior to EVERYONE.
Narcissists believe they are above others and have a high level of self-importance. They believe that most people just don’t understand their intellect and, therefore, resent people who don’t treat them as superior.
13. He is always right, just ask him!
A narcissist is never wrong and if you try to point out what they did wrong they will turn it completely around to be your fault. They will talk and talk about how you are to blame until you agree with them or give up and stop defending yourself.
14. He is hyper-sensitive to criticism.
Narcissists are hyper-sensitive to criticism and get extremely angry when criticized. Their egos are so fragile and their skin so thick that they take every negative comment as a form of abuse against them.
15. He is a drama queen.
A narcissist’s behavior is unpredictable and his negative reactions are oftentimes excessive relative to the issue. Hell has no fury like an angry narcissist and you will be taken aback by his rage and punishing ways towards you.
16. He feels good about himself by belittling others.
Since he believes himself to be superior, you will be demeaned every chance he gets in order to shred your sense of self-worth to nothing. The objective is to always win and keep you feeling bad about yourself so you don’t have the confidence to leave. No one can leave him, he has to do the leaving.
17. He never takes responsibility for anything.
A narcissist blames everyone else for everything. It’s always the bosses fault, the lowly co-worker, the kids, and mostly your fault. And don’t hold your breath waiting for him to ever say, “I’m sorry.”
18. He’s a major control freak.
Many people overuse the term controlling about their spouses, but once you are knee deep in a relationship with a narcissist, “control” ways take on a new dimension. The narcissist will not let up until your once loud voice is a mere whimper.
19. He is a manipulator to the umpth degree.
Manipulation is fun and playtime to the narcissist. You will receive the silent treatment, be blocked on social media, your calls and texts will be ignored, or he will leave the house for long periods of time, all in an effort to force you to comply and accept his abusive behavior.
20. Unlike you, he is unaware that he has a personality disorder.
Not only does he not know he is a narcissist, but if he read the signs above, he would think that you are the narcissist.
1. He was extremely likable when you first met.
Narcissists can be charming and personable at first glance. They make great first impressions and will go out of their way for you, making you believe in their wonderfulness.
2. He takes his time, but will eventually show his true colors.
Narcissists know how to bide their time and make you feel very special. You will be deceived for a while until they know they have you, hook, line, and sinker.
3. He is his favorite subject to talk about.
Narcissists love to talk, mostly about themselves since they are preoccupied with themselves. They will turn every conversation around to be about their favorite topic, you guessed it, themselves. You will barely get a word in edgewise.
4. He knows important people and likes to name drop.
Narcissists have an exaggerated self-importance so will frequently talk of the important people he knows and will name drop to impress. He wants to make sure you and everyone else he knows is impressed with his greatness.
5. He settles for nothing but the best.
A narcissist loves nice things and will only buy designer names because it is a symbol of higher status. His outward image is more important than their inner reality.
6. He spends a lot of time on his appearance.
A narcissist will spend a lot of time on making sure he looks perfect. His family members must also look perfect since outward appearances matter a great deal to him. And, how you look reflects upon his greatness.
7. He loves showing off on social media.
Narcissists love social media and claiming as many friends or followers as possible. They love to self-promote their comings and goings and will post tons of selfies while always looking picture perfect.
8. His needs are the most important.
In a narcissist’s world, all is good if his needs are met. He expects you to plan your life around his needs.
9. He takes but he rarely gives in return.
Before you know it, the man that was once happily giving you his attention and love has done a 180 and is now the constant taker. He thinks he deserves all the attention and could care less if you are without.
10. He takes EVERYTHING personally.
The narcissist must be recognized for their greatness, or like a toddler will have major temper tantrums. If you disagree with him, then you are the problem and will be on the wrong end of his anger.
11. He lacks empathy for others.
The narcissist is completely insensitive toward the feelings of others, even his so-called loved ones. You think he is on your side, but soon enough you’ll learn that he could care less whether he has done something to hurt you or not.
12. He believes he’s superior to EVERYONE.
Narcissists believe they are above others and have a high level of self-importance. They believe that most people just don’t understand their intellect and, therefore, resent people who don’t treat them as superior.
13. He is always right, just ask him!
A narcissist is never wrong and if you try to point out what they did wrong they will turn it completely around to be your fault. They will talk and talk about how you are to blame until you agree with them or give up and stop defending yourself.
14. He is hyper-sensitive to criticism.
Narcissists are hyper-sensitive to criticism and get extremely angry when criticized. Their egos are so fragile and their skin so thick that they take every negative comment as a form of abuse against them.
15. He is a drama queen.
A narcissist’s behavior is unpredictable and his negative reactions are oftentimes excessive relative to the issue. Hell has no fury like an angry narcissist and you will be taken aback by his rage and punishing ways towards you.
16. He feels good about himself by belittling others.
Since he believes himself to be superior, you will be demeaned every chance he gets in order to shred your sense of self-worth to nothing. The objective is to always win and keep you feeling bad about yourself so you don’t have the confidence to leave. No one can leave him, he has to do the leaving.
17. He never takes responsibility for anything.
A narcissist blames everyone else for everything. It’s always the bosses fault, the lowly co-worker, the kids, and mostly your fault. And don’t hold your breath waiting for him to ever say, “I’m sorry.”
18. He’s a major control freak.
Many people overuse the term controlling about their spouses, but once you are knee deep in a relationship with a narcissist, “control” ways take on a new dimension. The narcissist will not let up until your once loud voice is a mere whimper.
19. He is a manipulator to the umpth degree.
Manipulation is fun and playtime to the narcissist. You will receive the silent treatment, be blocked on social media, your calls and texts will be ignored, or he will leave the house for long periods of time, all in an effort to force you to comply and accept his abusive behavior.
20. Unlike you, he is unaware that he has a personality disorder.
Not only does he not know he is a narcissist, but if he read the signs above, he would think that you are the narcissist.
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
Ok, time for a new approach…
This is after watching Cowlazars' video last night (btw, Breakstone's Cottage Doubles: Mango Habanero; give 'em a try (low calorie, your kids will 'em, too)) where he was drilling down on the pinyon pine, trying to rule out two states, if possible.
But when he read what Forrest said about what the experience would be like around where the treasure is hidden, it resonated with me. Just the tone of his voice drew me in, and reminded me of when I first ventured into The Grand Canyon.
Back then, it was a day hike down to Dripping Springs, way off to the left, using the Hermit's Rest Trail. But on that day, just before heading below the rim we checked our gear because we knew that once we headed down, we were on our own until we got back to the top of the rim. And there were pine trees around, and all that was brought back when Cowlazars read the Fenn quote.
So, thinking about TTotC, if pretending to be Forrest, and wanting to make a quintessential treasure hunt that would capture the feel of The Rockies, and also applying what Forrest actually put in the poem, it would go like this:
This is after watching Cowlazars' video last night (btw, Breakstone's Cottage Doubles: Mango Habanero; give 'em a try (low calorie, your kids will 'em, too)) where he was drilling down on the pinyon pine, trying to rule out two states, if possible.
But when he read what Forrest said about what the experience would be like around where the treasure is hidden, it resonated with me. Just the tone of his voice drew me in, and reminded me of when I first ventured into The Grand Canyon.
Back then, it was a day hike down to Dripping Springs, way off to the left, using the Hermit's Rest Trail. But on that day, just before heading below the rim we checked our gear because we knew that once we headed down, we were on our own until we got back to the top of the rim. And there were pine trees around, and all that was brought back when Cowlazars read the Fenn quote.
So, thinking about TTotC, if pretending to be Forrest, and wanting to make a quintessential treasure hunt that would capture the feel of The Rockies, and also applying what Forrest actually put in the poem, it would go like this:
- BIWWWH
- Simply a trailhead with a canyon unfolding below
- "Where warm waters halt" is the top of a canyon, where you metaphorically say goodbye to the "comforts" of civilization.
- Once you step below the rim you're on your own.
- You will "begin it" where "it" originally began, eons and eons ago, when the drip, drip, drip of water carved it out.
- Simply a trailhead with a canyon unfolding below
- ATIITCD
- Head on "down" into the "canyon."
- A great adventure awaits you and there will be excitement with each step down.
- Within minutes you'll be in your own world, with beautiful views always in sight.
- This because you're always alongside a canyon wall on one side, but with an open canyon vista on the other side.
- Tranquility and serenity will be in close proximity to you as you hike along.
- You will definitely be on a man made trail for this portion of your search.
- NF,BTFTW
- Although you can hike down, it will be a long hike.
- As with all hikes, they always seem "too far;" distance traveled per time is always much slower when hiking.
- It is a common lament on hikes: "Are we there yet?" "How much further do we have to go?"
- There is an alternate route down where a sedan car could get you closer to the final destination.
- Some searchers may not be old enough to drive.
- If you jump in a car instead of hiking down, then you may join the club of those who "went right past the other seven, not knowing they had been so close."
- Your choice, hike or drive, since you're not eighty years old.
- Although you can hike down, it will be a long hike.
- PIBTHOB
- This will be some sort of "Brown" derived reference that tells you to stop hiking down further
- A shack, miner's cabin, lean-to, color, creek name, fishing hole, campground, historical reference, trail sign, etc.
- Use your imagination; maybe something Forrest said or wrote will give you a hint.
- This will be some sort of "Brown" derived reference that tells you to stop hiking down further
- FTINPFTM
- You leave the "canyon down" trail at this point.
- Failure to do so will take you further away from the treasure chest with every step, may even put you onto a bogus trail that you think is still the "canyon down" trail.
- People hiking The Grand Canyon, for example, have missed turnoffs and gotten completely turned around and confused on meandering switchbacks.
- TEIEDN
- Since the "canyon down" trail had been going down, you would now be hiking sideways perpendicular to it.
- This means no longer descending, constant elevation, and possibly heading to the "left" of down.
- This sideways, constant elevation travel may be 500-feet long, and may have you come around a bend to a new vista.
- There may be little evidence of this sideways trail at the start of it, which could make it be accidentally missed.
- This would explain how "some of the searchers have been within 500-feet" since they mistimed the opportunity to head sideways and never got any closer to the treasure chest.
- TBNPUYC/JHLAWH
- 500-feet of this sideways travel will bring you to a known water source, i.e. a creek.
- But there may not be any water present when you get there; depends on recent weather.
- It may not be a creek; it may be a stream, or rivulet, or spring. (water something)
- Most likely the creek will be strewn with boulders from past flash floods.
- Should it be a "dry creek" at the time, the boulders will reveal that you have gone far enough sideways.
- No human made trail will take you up above this "flowing" or "dry" creek.
- There is no need for a trail there, it is too out-of-the-way, it would serve no purpose, and your upward destination has never been frequented by anyone…except Forrest.
- And besides, the main trail ("canyon down") is merely 500-feet away from you, but around the bend you travelled sideways along, and now out of sight.
- No need for two "canyon down" trails in such close proximity
- 500-feet of this sideways travel will bring you to a known water source, i.e. a creek.
- IYBWAFTB
- Hike "up," bushwhacking alongside this creek to an adjacent promontory, cliff, waterfall, or just anything that stands out like a "blaze" in your imagination.
- On this upward hike, don't stop short, for example, at the base of a promontory, especially if the promontory is 200-feet high.
- The few who came within 200-feet of the treasure chest may have done just this, and failed to find it. Don't be one of them.
- Likewise, don't be like those who didn't turn "up" where they should have, fooled by a dry creek not cluing them in, and who then continued on sideways, also missing the turn to go "up."
- Hike "up," bushwhacking alongside this creek to an adjacent promontory, cliff, waterfall, or just anything that stands out like a "blaze" in your imagination.
- LQD,YQTC
- Look all around, but especially in some vertical direction to where you are.
- Up, down, left, right, move below to the base of the "blaze" and repeat until the treasure chest is found.
- Congratulations!
- Look all around, but especially in some vertical direction to where you are.
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
Wood River, Wyoming Solve; August 31, 2017
Perhaps the most delicious solve for all of Wyoming, the Wood River Solve in Shoshone National Forest has it all.
I first became aware of it less than a month ago, tried to convince my brother-in-law to drive out there with me, but since he was driving up from Santa Fe to begin with, and since we intended to watch The Great American Eclipse from Castle Gardens, when he saw the huge number of extra miles to drive to get to the Wood River area, and coupled with our limited timeline, he explained that, “No way would Forrest Fenn hide the treasure chest way out there... too much driving.” From his point of view, it would be really, really in the middle of nowhere, and since our chances of finding it were a million to one, Wood River, with its alluring Brown Mountain campground, was not in the cards.
Still, for Wyoming, there is no better solve.
There are a few negatives, however, but they can be brushed away.
Still, because of its "Brown" magnet-like pull, several search teams, based on Internet chatter this past month, are headed to the area this very weekend, Labor Day Weekend, 2017.
Who knows, they may arrive on the treasure chest simultaneously and a “Mexican Standoff” could ensue.
Using my above post as a template for this solve (follow along using topozone.com, toggling back and forth between Topographic and Satellite), here it is...
Good luck to all you Search Teams, and BOTG will be the final determinant. Get up and out early so that you don't rue the day eating your competition's dust.
Perhaps the most delicious solve for all of Wyoming, the Wood River Solve in Shoshone National Forest has it all.
I first became aware of it less than a month ago, tried to convince my brother-in-law to drive out there with me, but since he was driving up from Santa Fe to begin with, and since we intended to watch The Great American Eclipse from Castle Gardens, when he saw the huge number of extra miles to drive to get to the Wood River area, and coupled with our limited timeline, he explained that, “No way would Forrest Fenn hide the treasure chest way out there... too much driving.” From his point of view, it would be really, really in the middle of nowhere, and since our chances of finding it were a million to one, Wood River, with its alluring Brown Mountain campground, was not in the cards.
Still, for Wyoming, there is no better solve.
There are a few negatives, however, but they can be brushed away.
- Too remote an area for Forrest, logistics-wise
- Ten miles to make two trips from his car
- The area really is “no place for the meek."
- There isn’t any “special place” reason for Forrest to have immediately known that this was where he would want to “throw his bones” on top of a treasure chest, and let the world wonder where he disappeared to.
- Brown Mountain
- Brown Mountain campsite
- Brown Creek
Still, because of its "Brown" magnet-like pull, several search teams, based on Internet chatter this past month, are headed to the area this very weekend, Labor Day Weekend, 2017.
Who knows, they may arrive on the treasure chest simultaneously and a “Mexican Standoff” could ensue.
Using my above post as a template for this solve (follow along using topozone.com, toggling back and forth between Topographic and Satellite), here it is...
- BIWWWH
- County Peak (Elevation 12,115 feet); Shoshone National Forest (Washakie Wilderness)
- "Where warm waters halt" is the top of this box canyon, where you metaphorically say goodbye to the "comforts" of civilization.
- You are “mentally” transported to this starting point using your imagination.
- You will "begin it" where "it" originally began, eons and eons ago, the drip, drip, drip of water...
- South Fork Wood River's headwaters are solely in HOT SPRINGS CO DISTRICT.
- USGS topo map demarcates the ridge line of the box canyon exactly this way.
- Adjacent Middle Fork Wood River involves both PARK CO and HOT SPRINGS CO; not as pure a “warm water” identity.
- South Fork Wood River wins the “warm waters" nod of the Fenndom-gods
- County Peak (Elevation 12,115 feet); Shoshone National Forest (Washakie Wilderness)
- ATIITCD
- Head on "down" into the "canyon."
- A treasure chest awaits you and there will be excitement with each “mental” step down.
- A man made trail begins at 9,320 feet (just above McGregor Park)
- NF,BTFTW
- Although you can “mentally” hike down, it will be a long “mental” hike.
- As with all “mental” hikes, they always seem "too far."
- It is a common lament on “mental” hikes: "How much more click-and-drag do I have to do?"
- There is an alternate route down the canyon (actually “up”) where a sedan car could get you closer to the final destination.
- Google Maps lists it as road 2011C
- Although you can “mentally” hike down, it will be a long “mental” hike.
- PIBTHOB
- This will be some sort of "Brown" derived reference that tells you to stop hiking further.
- BROWN MOUNTAIN campground
- Extremely key, the case cracker: elevation 7,600 feet (ff clue: (5,000’ + 10,200’)/2)
- This will be some sort of "Brown" derived reference that tells you to stop hiking further.
- FTINPFTM
- You leave the "canyon down" trail at this point.
- This solve will now take the approach and perspective of hiking up from the 2011C road parked-car.
- Current location: Confluence of South Fork Wood River and Chimney Creek
- Elevation: 7,590 feet (Bingo!)
- "Put in" is taken to mean putting in on a shoreline, leaving the river, unquestionably.
- You leave the "canyon down" trail at this point.
- TEIEDN
- Since the "canyon up" trail (relative to the parked car) had been going “up,” you would now be hiking sideways perpendicular to it.
- This means constant elevation, and heading to the left a near distance.
- From the poem, “nigh” is employed duplicitously for efficiency.
- TBNPUYC/JHLAWH
- All along Chimney Creek, on the left, from the confluence to one mile upstream, are craggy, vertical rock-walls and side creeks. (very target rich)
- IYBWAFTB
- Hike "up," bushwhacking off-trail, and explore these crags and creeks looking for anything that stands out like a "blaze" in your imagination.
- Most appealing, from an armchair-solve, is the dry-creek, “cold” gun-metal-colored promontory, 1/3rd mile up Chimney Creek, 500 feet distance off-trail to the east.
- On this upward hike, don't stop short, for example, at the base of the “cold” gun-metal-colored promontory, especially if the promontory top is 200 feet further.
- The few who came within 200 feet of the treasure chest may have done just this and failed to find it.
- Don't be one of them. Go all the way up on top of it.
- LQD,YQTC
- Look all around, but especially in some vertical direction to where you are.
- Up, down, left, right... everywhere!
- Look all around, but especially in some vertical direction to where you are.
Good luck to all you Search Teams, and BOTG will be the final determinant. Get up and out early so that you don't rue the day eating your competition's dust.
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
Begin It Where Warm Waters Halt
Pick a Canyon, any Canyon…
Near the top of every box canyon that is not snow covered, at some point or another high enough up, you will find the headwaters portion of the stream, creek, or river that formed the canyon, and it will have gone dry. Just follow one up on Google Maps (Satellite View) and you will see it change from flowing water to dry creek bed if you go to the top.
Why didn't Forrest write "Begin it where warm water halts," "Begin it where warm waters stop," "Begin it where warm water stops?"
All just equally as good?
Pretty much.
Sure, "halt" shares some assonance with "walk," and so that could explain his reasoning. Still, he could have just crumpled up his attempt on the page, tried again, and again, and again, as I'm sure he did, and eventually something would have come of it.
Halt suggests a temporary state before continuance. (The troops halted briefly, but then continued on.)
Stop has more permanence to it. (He stopped the leak just in the nick of time.)
In the end, after many, many attempts, Forrest settled upon "waters halt." It captured his intent best, and it was good enough.
During dry spells in summer months, the ground of the upper reaches of box canyons will warm considerably from the afternoon sunshine. If a rainstorm should happen by, the cold rain that hits the ground there will soak in and warm up. But gravity will pull on the raindrops, forcing them to descend, and as they do they will collect around obstacles, reach critical mass, then flow anew to other larger obstacles, eventually collecting into many, many little rivulets, which then become little streams, then larger streams, and so on, and so on, until one stream, or creek, or river finally results.
Ever sit in a car waiting for someone when it begins to rain? A few drops hit at first on the windshield, and they just hang there. A few more hit and they collect together, maybe trickle down a little, but again hang there further below. Some reach critical mass and flow right down off the windshield. But others soon follow, beginning the cycle anew.
Really not much to it.
Pick a Canyon, any Canyon…
Near the top of every box canyon that is not snow covered, at some point or another high enough up, you will find the headwaters portion of the stream, creek, or river that formed the canyon, and it will have gone dry. Just follow one up on Google Maps (Satellite View) and you will see it change from flowing water to dry creek bed if you go to the top.
Why didn't Forrest write "Begin it where warm water halts," "Begin it where warm waters stop," "Begin it where warm water stops?"
All just equally as good?
Pretty much.
Sure, "halt" shares some assonance with "walk," and so that could explain his reasoning. Still, he could have just crumpled up his attempt on the page, tried again, and again, and again, as I'm sure he did, and eventually something would have come of it.
Halt suggests a temporary state before continuance. (The troops halted briefly, but then continued on.)
Stop has more permanence to it. (He stopped the leak just in the nick of time.)
In the end, after many, many attempts, Forrest settled upon "waters halt." It captured his intent best, and it was good enough.
During dry spells in summer months, the ground of the upper reaches of box canyons will warm considerably from the afternoon sunshine. If a rainstorm should happen by, the cold rain that hits the ground there will soak in and warm up. But gravity will pull on the raindrops, forcing them to descend, and as they do they will collect around obstacles, reach critical mass, then flow anew to other larger obstacles, eventually collecting into many, many little rivulets, which then become little streams, then larger streams, and so on, and so on, until one stream, or creek, or river finally results.
Ever sit in a car waiting for someone when it begins to rain? A few drops hit at first on the windshield, and they just hang there. A few more hit and they collect together, maybe trickle down a little, but again hang there further below. Some reach critical mass and flow right down off the windshield. But others soon follow, beginning the cycle anew.
Really not much to it.
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
For those of you further interested in Wood River, Wyoming search areas, the best account to be read can be found by Googling Kirwin Search Report.
This will bring you to an October 2014 story which contains lots of pics and further reasons why Forrest would find the area to be "special" to him. The story is well written, captivating to read, and is so appreciated that "thoughts" are still commented on it as late as August 8, 2017… nearly three years after it was originally posted.
For the general solve that I commented on a few posts above, suggesting that the area to the northeast of the confluence of South Fork Wood River and Chimney Creek may be a good location to search, I was able to find a little more detail Online, made by horseback riding enthusiasts back in October 2010:
After about 3.5 miles, you'll come to the Washakie Wilderness sign. Shortly past the sign, the first monolithic, chimney-like rock spire comes into view on your left. The rock juts straight up from the edge of the stream and tries to pierce the sky… Continue riding, and enjoy the numerous rock spires; this is a natural outdoor cathedral.
Chimney-like rock spire!
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
This will bring you to an October 2014 story which contains lots of pics and further reasons why Forrest would find the area to be "special" to him. The story is well written, captivating to read, and is so appreciated that "thoughts" are still commented on it as late as August 8, 2017… nearly three years after it was originally posted.
For the general solve that I commented on a few posts above, suggesting that the area to the northeast of the confluence of South Fork Wood River and Chimney Creek may be a good location to search, I was able to find a little more detail Online, made by horseback riding enthusiasts back in October 2010:
After about 3.5 miles, you'll come to the Washakie Wilderness sign. Shortly past the sign, the first monolithic, chimney-like rock spire comes into view on your left. The rock juts straight up from the edge of the stream and tries to pierce the sky… Continue riding, and enjoy the numerous rock spires; this is a natural outdoor cathedral.
Chimney-like rock spire!
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
USAuPzlBxBob, (deleted by mod for rule infraction) Fenn and his family lied to everyone and are making money off the books and using them to attract other people with money. It's a con game, a game of sheep and wolves. Wolves get recruited and sheep get sheered. All those scam calls from india everyone is getting is thanks to Fenn. That Ringing Bells company was founded after the guy consulted with Forrest Fenn. Think Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul. It's about fraud and I say this with 100 percent certainty. His whole family is in on it and has made money from these con games.
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USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
[quote edited by mod, it violates our rules]
I have no proof that it exists or not. I prefer the high road to the low road: the treasure chest exists and can be found in The Rockies.
People looking for the treasure chest enjoy TTotC irregardless of how they feel about Fenn and however he lives his life or makes money.
Not many dislike him, and only a handful disparage him publicly. I don't know him, have never contacted him, he's never done anything to me to make me not like him.
He wrote TTotC and I have a signed copy. I enjoyed the read. He represents a "time" in America when things were much simpler, and when people "got by" by having common sense.
The last time I replied to you, before the moderators removed your post, that reply works here just as well, tongue in cheek, of course:
"How do we know it's not a fake? It looks like a fake."
"Well, one thing we know, you're no fake. You're a genuine idiot."
"Thank you."
I have no proof that it exists or not. I prefer the high road to the low road: the treasure chest exists and can be found in The Rockies.
People looking for the treasure chest enjoy TTotC irregardless of how they feel about Fenn and however he lives his life or makes money.
Not many dislike him, and only a handful disparage him publicly. I don't know him, have never contacted him, he's never done anything to me to make me not like him.
He wrote TTotC and I have a signed copy. I enjoyed the read. He represents a "time" in America when things were much simpler, and when people "got by" by having common sense.
The last time I replied to you, before the moderators removed your post, that reply works here just as well, tongue in cheek, of course:
"How do we know it's not a fake? It looks like a fake."
"Well, one thing we know, you're no fake. You're a genuine idiot."
"Thank you."
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- Jul 27, 2006
- 48,472
- 54,930
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab_Equinox_ 800 Minelab_CTX-3030 Minelab_Excal_1000 Minelab_Sovereign_GT Minelab_Safari Minelab_ETrac Whites_Beach_Hunter_ID Fisher_1235_X
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
F4ake, please post by rules, calling a member a shrill violates our rules.
Here are some articles you all may be interested in that is related to the mystery here:
A Staggering 96% of the Artifacts in San Francisco’s Mexican Museum May Be Fake
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/mexican-museums-artifacts-mostly-fake-1016198
Being Aware of Fake Archaeological Artefacts
http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/fakes.html
Ancient Artifacts: Fake or Authentic?
https://www.seeker.com/ancient-artifacts-fake-or-authentic-1766208672.html
Archaeological forgery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_forgery
Real or Fake? Collector Antiquities
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/1.html
Five Reasons You Shouldn't Buy That Ancient Artifact
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristi...asons-you-shouldnt-buy-that-ancient-artifact/
A Staggering 96% of the Artifacts in San Francisco’s Mexican Museum May Be Fake
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/mexican-museums-artifacts-mostly-fake-1016198
Being Aware of Fake Archaeological Artefacts
http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/fakes.html
Ancient Artifacts: Fake or Authentic?
https://www.seeker.com/ancient-artifacts-fake-or-authentic-1766208672.html
Archaeological forgery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_forgery
Real or Fake? Collector Antiquities
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/1.html
Five Reasons You Shouldn't Buy That Ancient Artifact
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristi...asons-you-shouldnt-buy-that-ancient-artifact/
I have a right to post information about this just like everybody else. USAuPzlBxBob continues to post essentially the same thing over and again and I don't want the important information disproving the Fenn treasure getting hidden from other victims. People have died because of this and I want to do my best to prevent others from being hurt by this. I am glad that you have read what I have posted but who knows how many other searchers or potential searchers have seen it. Most people on the internet seem to believe this stuff and it only seems a handful of people are fact checking the information and speaking out about it, going against the beliefs of many for the greater good to help others, and the factual information could easily be lost or forgotten if people that know the truth, the secret, don't remind everyone of it occasionally.
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USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
F4Fake, can you believe it, I actually checked out those links you posted. I can't even believe it, myself, but I did.
Didn't find Forrest Fenn's name mentioned once. Or twice.
I actually did find his name mentioned…
wait for it…
keep waiting…
You're still waiting, right?
I actually found his name mentioned…
Zero times. Zero, as in the number 0. No significant figures needed.
I did find it interesting that one of the forgers mentioned in the links you provided, who was acquitted on appeal of his forger conviction, his first name was:
Tjerk.
I thought that was kind of funny.
As to the SFMOMA considered to have 96% fakes in their Mexican collection, they could get that straightened out by having the stuff authenticated.
They never did that. They accepted donations to get them going and they were short on funds, and the donors took tax write offs, so who knows what the real story there, is.
The stuff could be real, it's just no one knows for sure. It is mostly a sensationalism article, so that the writer can collect a salary by writing about… whatever.
Do I think there are "fakes" out there. Definitely Yes! But I don't collect ancient artifacts. Why? Because I'm afraid they'd be fake!
If you're going to collect that sort of stuff, make sure there is provenance, and have carbon dating done, and X-Ray Florescence, and, well, you get the point.
It's very much caveat emptor.
So, you go by the username F4Fake. What's that all about?
You might consider changing it to M4MaybeFake. Might make you a lot more credible.
If you do that, I might give you a "Like." (might; that means maybe)
Now, that would be truly amazing.
Didn't find Forrest Fenn's name mentioned once. Or twice.
I actually did find his name mentioned…
wait for it…
keep waiting…
You're still waiting, right?
I actually found his name mentioned…
Zero times. Zero, as in the number 0. No significant figures needed.
I did find it interesting that one of the forgers mentioned in the links you provided, who was acquitted on appeal of his forger conviction, his first name was:
Tjerk.
I thought that was kind of funny.
As to the SFMOMA considered to have 96% fakes in their Mexican collection, they could get that straightened out by having the stuff authenticated.
They never did that. They accepted donations to get them going and they were short on funds, and the donors took tax write offs, so who knows what the real story there, is.
The stuff could be real, it's just no one knows for sure. It is mostly a sensationalism article, so that the writer can collect a salary by writing about… whatever.
Do I think there are "fakes" out there. Definitely Yes! But I don't collect ancient artifacts. Why? Because I'm afraid they'd be fake!
If you're going to collect that sort of stuff, make sure there is provenance, and have carbon dating done, and X-Ray Florescence, and, well, you get the point.
It's very much caveat emptor.
So, you go by the username F4Fake. What's that all about?
You might consider changing it to M4MaybeFake. Might make you a lot more credible.
If you do that, I might give you a "Like." (might; that means maybe)
Now, that would be truly amazing.
Some of you are close to figuring it out with the sheep comment but not quite. Forrest Fenn was trying to create a cult like Joseph Smith did with the Mormons where people were looking for golden plates and couldn't find them. With the "treasure hunt" the media was used as witnesses similar to how Joseph Smith had witnesses. His books were self published like Joseph Smith. L. Ron Hubbard did a similar thing when he created Scientology which is pure fiction but people believe it. It was all designed to make his family money which is why he would invite people to Santa Fe and get them to give him money he claimed was for charity, another clue. The treasure hunt map you could buy in Santa Fe at his friend's hotel, the Loretto Inn in Santa Fe, ended at a church which is yet another clue. In his first book he says his church is in the mountains then says he hid the treasure in the mountains north of Santa Fe. The mountains north of Santa Fe are the Sangre de Cristo Mountains which means blood of Christ. He keeps saying you must find where warm waters halt which is a clue to a baptismal font. It's not at all what you think this is about. Other clues are the references to blazes and saying the treasure is deep which is a reference to hell. The devil plays tricks on people, God would never mislead people. He wants your money and is deceiving people for money and does not care who gets hurt in the process. The spam phone calls and emails his cohorts are sending often contain subliminal messages designed to manipulate people into doing mischievous things, some of which have made national headlines and the victims don't even realize they were ever manipulated. Now you know the real secret to all this.
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USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
What?!
You mean Forrest is really, really a fake?
And there’s no treasure?
No gold?
No diamonds, ... or rubies?
I am so embarrassed... and I feel so ashamed.
Wait a minute.
Elron, you’re new here. And your writing style is just like F4Fake’s and Guanaca’s.
And, so far, every time you’re online, F4Fake is offline, and Gaunaca is offline... and...
What’s going on here?
It’s like when hydra’s head gets cut off, two grow back!
I’m telling Mommy!
You mean Forrest is really, really a fake?
And there’s no treasure?
No gold?
No diamonds, ... or rubies?
I am so embarrassed... and I feel so ashamed.
Wait a minute.
Elron, you’re new here. And your writing style is just like F4Fake’s and Guanaca’s.
And, so far, every time you’re online, F4Fake is offline, and Gaunaca is offline... and...
What’s going on here?
It’s like when hydra’s head gets cut off, two grow back!
I’m telling Mommy!
USAuPzlBxBob
Jr. Member
Well, I've got one…
There's a dried-excrement, a fraud, and an old-woman-who-lived-in-a-shoe go into a bar…
Bartender looks up 'n says, "Get the Fenn outta here!"
There's a dried-excrement, a fraud, and an old-woman-who-lived-in-a-shoe go into a bar…
Bartender looks up 'n says, "Get the Fenn outta here!"
Ryano
Hero Member
F4Fake, Elron - why the need for multiple accounts ?
By the way, thank you for warning us about the subliminally encoded telemarketer phone calls !
By the way, thank you for warning us about the subliminally encoded telemarketer phone calls !
Ryano - why the sarcasm and bandwagon accusation? Seems many people think that anyone who doesn't believe the treasure hunt is real is accused of being the same person. I'm not elron. The cult talk is out there but everyone is has a right to their opinion. Fenn said it wasn't a search for gold after saying the chest was filled with gold so it seemed like a bait and switch maneuver after telling people he wanted them to find his gold. The part on subliminal messages is interesting but without seeing what elron is referring to who knows but after researching it I find the idea of it creepy.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Subliminal Messages
Magicians use subliminal messages to control the subconscious mind in some tricks.
Are we always in control of our minds? As David Robson discovers, it’s surprisingly easy to plant ideas in peoples’ heads without them realising
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150324-the-hidden-tricks-of-persuasion
I've watched that brain games show and some of the things they do on that show are freaky.
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