Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[wrmickel1]

For those who don't know, Clay will be selling The Wasp mine shortly, might be a good retirement plan for someone on here or two. Pic's are posted on superstition mountain group. Fully working mine.

babymick

ps old it wasn't this Wayne, always a gentleman to the ladies

 

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[somehiker]

You're ok on this one Mick.
You weren't there, so you got an ironclad alibi....no lineup for you.
Starting to sound like Lynda's been played.

 

[wrmickel1]

Yeah, A tune that's sounds familiar. Complete with lyrics called He said She said!
Familiar M/O as if Doc Hollywood has a split personality and a butt hurt so serve and cankerworm that spread 2500 miles.
Owell I thank I'll go out and enjoy the 25 below zero morning today.

Stay Warm Babymick1

 

[nobodie]

Being I'm paranoid about everything, I've come up with a suspicious idea. Maybe someone's adventure has failed, and is turning on certain people. Proud to be paranoid, no apology.

 

[somehiker]

Being I'm paranoid about everything, I've come up with a suspicious idea. Maybe someone's adventure has failed, and is turning on certain people. Proud to be paranoid, no apology.

Could be.
We do know that a certain project, and it's "new beginning" has gone dark. But in this case, there's no "he said, she said".
It's purely a "she said" fairytale that won't stand up under scrutiny.

 

[audigger53]

On one of the trips in from the Peralta trail head, we found an old campsite near a low grade dig. Fond an old coffee cup that I still have. It is a thick Tepco coffee cup. Doen't hold much at a time but does good. If you go looking for it there is a rise/hillock to the left of the trail, if memory serves correctly on top of the rise is where the camp site was. Not where I would have camped as it had no wind breaks, but it did allow one to look over the area leading up to it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Mr. Oro,

I wrote you a reply but thought better of it. Perhaps another time. This is a time to reflect but be hopeful of better things to come.

Wishing you and yours a Happy and rewarding New Year.

Happy New Year to you too. I didn't mean any offense, the fact is that the whole thing left me in the dark.

I have never heard anyone bad mouth anyone else at a rendezvous, nor anything like that part about what someone else looks like. But of course I haven't been to every rendezvous nor could have heard every conversation. That said, it does sound like someone has been pulling your leg. Hard to know what it was.

Please do continue, sorry for the side track amigos.

 

[somehiker]

Ron Feldman
The Special use/treasure trove permit and HEAT dig........

 

[cactusjumper]

If a person gave some serious thought to removing ore from the Pit Mine, and getting it out of the mountains, they might come up with some novel ways on how to do that.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

If a person gave some serious thought to removing ore from the Pit Mine, and getting it out of the mountains, they might come up with some novel ways on how to do that.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Morning Joe.

Like what ?
Hot air balloon....hang glider....packed in a pair of long-johns ?
The folks that built the ladder at Bat Cave used zip-lines.
Chuck Crawford had a one-wheel handcart that he used for hauling rocks.
How about a black helicopter....flying only at night ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Morning Joe.

Like what ?
Hot air balloon....hang glider....packed in a pair of long-johns ?
The folks that built the ladder at Bat Cave used zip-lines.
Chuck Crawford had a one-wheel handcart that he used for hauling rocks.
How about a black helicopter....flying only at night ?

Hi Wayne,

I was thinking more along the lines of a large, legal, operation that required a number of people, pack horses and support.......that was in the general area. Lots of movement of men, equipment and material on a regular basis. Have you heard of anything in that area that sounds like any of that?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Hi Wayne,

I was thinking more along the lines of a large, legal, operation that required a number of people, pack horses and support.......that was in the general area. Lots of movement of men, equipment and material on a regular basis. Have you heard of anything in that area that sounds like any of that?

Good luck,

Joe

Ya, I know Joe.
Seems like you've been dropping hints that the HEAT dig was related to whatever "they" pulled out of the pit mine.
Would make a good story if it were true I guess. But I see a couple of problems with that theory.....one being that of timelines.
However, I can see a connection between the two, and why the latter effort was done legal like all the way.

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Ya, I know Joe.
Seems like you've been dropping hints that the HEAT dig was related to whatever "they" pulled out of the pit mine.
Would make a good story if it were true I guess. But I see a couple of problems with that theory.....one being that of timelines.
However, I can see a connection between the two, and why the latter effort was done legal like all the way.

Regards:Wayne

Wayne,

Good point.......but let's assume all the work had been done in the first three years, except for removing the ore from the shaft and the mountains. Perhaps it was a long term plan. You only noted one problem, what was the other?

You getting any of that frosty weather up there?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman Mine?

This question can also be asked as....... Is the Silver Chief Mine really the Lost Dutchman Mine?

Because the Pit Mine and the Silver Chief Mine are one and the same mine.

No one knows for certain the origin of the Lost Dutchman Mine because Jacob Waltz did not file on it and no mining record of it exists.

But records do exist for the Silver Chief mine and the filings and re-filings that were recorded down through the years to the present day.

From these records we can create a time line of the life of the Silver Chief Mine from it's beginning in 1875 until today.


Timeline of the Jacob Waltz Lost Dutchman Mine, the Silver Chief Mine and the Pit Mine.

1869 - 1872 believed to be the years Waltz found his Dutchman Mine.

1869 – 1885 believed to be the years Waltz worked his Dutchman Mine.

1875…..the year James Rogers filed on the Silver Chief Mine.

1875…..the year the stamp mill was built near Rogers spring to process ore from the Silver Chief.

1875 – 1888…..the years of peak mining in and around the Silver Chief Mine.

1957…..the year Ted Cox filed on the Ridge Pit Mine formerly the Silver Chief.

1964…..the year Carl and Eva Smith filed on the Lazy Mule# formerly the Ridge Pit / Silver Chief Mine.

1966 – 1972…..the years Carl Smith, Milton Hammond and Ted Monson worked the Lazy Mule# Mine formerly the Silver Chief.

1980…..the year Charles Waters and 2 employees ran the dumps of the former Silver Chief Mine. Gold had spiked to $850 and Silver to $51 in January 1980.

1982….Jimmie Jinks samples the former Silver Chief Mine in his Superstition Wilderness Mineral Survey Report. Sample #17.

1997 – 1999…..the three summers the Pit Mine formerly the Silver Chief Mine, is said by some to have been mined of Gold.

2004…..the year (September 2004) the HEAT dig was begun at Rogers Spring.


2005 - 2009.....the years Dutchman books with the theme the Pit Mine is the Lost Dutchman Mine are published.

 

[cactusjumper]

Matthew,

Very nice timeline! However, I don't believe the Pit Mine is the original Silver Chief. A number of very knowledgeable people have told me it is the Silver Chief, including you. It's more than possible you are all correct. As you know, I can be very hard to convince once I have made up my mind as to the facts. Someone who has been to all of the mines in that specific area, and placed them all accurately on a Topographic map has convinced me that the Pit Mine is not the Silver Chief. I know you put a lot of stock in people putting boots on the ground and so do I. I don't know how many people have taken the time and made the effort to visit each and every mine shown on that old Cox Map, but I know he has.

There is one thing you left out of your timeline. What year did Ron begin his efforts to get a TT Permit for his dig? Let me save you some time. I believe he started his TT Permit request around 1999. By a strange coincidence, that was the final year of the three years work done on the Pit Mine.

No matter what name or history is applied to the Pit Mine, It's true history has been buried again.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

Good point.......but let's assume all the work had been done in the first three years, except for removing the ore from the shaft and the mountains. Perhaps it was a long term plan. You only noted one problem, what was the other?

You getting any of that frosty weather up there?

Take care,

Joe

Joe:

I think the larger problem is that we know the names of those involved in the HEAT dig, including that of Ron's go-between within the FS.
That the pit mine dig was illegal, and therefor the goodies illegally obtained, would make anyone involved in the latter operation guilty by association, I would think.
How do you think they would feel about being implicated in this way ?

Yes....it's a bit nippy up here



Regards:Wayne

 

[somehiker]

Excellent work Matthew.
Been jotting down a simple timeline myself, but that's far more comprehensive than what I had so far.

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe:

I think the larger problem is that we know the names of those involved in the HEAT dig, including that of Ron's go-between within the FS.
That the pit mine dig was illegal, and therefor the goodies illegally obtained, would make anyone involved in the latter operation guilty by association, I would think.
How do you think they would feel about being implicated in this way ?

Yes....it's a bit nippy up here

View attachment 1533154

Regards:Wayne

Wayne,

The names have been out there for a number of years now but there is no solid evidence that implicates any of the people you refer to. It's all just a good story being voiced now by many of those who are suspected of being involved. There are a number of coincidences, but that is not evidence. I assume they are no longer worried about legal consequences as they seem to be coming forward with the story. I certainly hope that is true.

Take care,

Joe

 

[wrmickel1]

I must interject Here,

The time line is flawed from the get go,
setting Waltz up as a high grader or claim jumper, Thief.
Its seems to me if I'm filing a claim on a gold mine I'd call it the Silver Chief, WHAT!


So you got a active mine being worked but yet Waltz just walks in camps and takes gold with out being shot on site. And it's legal to do so then. So where is Walts it's in his clues, He describes things the he knows and see's, such as a military trail and so forth, Why not just say hey go to the Silver Chief I'm sure it was commonplace talk around. He say's weavers needle is five miles away its mostly a true statement.

So why did Julia and company go to the needle, they missed there turn and went into the wrong canyon, went to the needle to reverse the directions, start there and back track the clues, That's why they came out by goldfield,

So the most likely Mine to be the Dutchman's is under Feldmans or Clays control at the moment.

So the pit mine to be the Dutchman's is like a five percent chance and to be the Wasp or bluebird or some covered over mine in that area is about 95% yes.

babymick1

 

[cactusjumper]

WRM., I was thinking 5/8 or so.

Good luck,

Joe