Knights of the Golden Circle, Order of American Knights, Freemasons and Kabbalah

[L.C. BAKER]

In Nebraska City there was a building built by S.F. Nuckolls in the beginning of it that housed several societies that met. The I.O.O.F. and Freemasons were among the first. In 1854 the Kansas-Nebraska Act allowed legal settlement in Nebraska City, and On May 10, 1855, the Grand Lodge of Missouri gave a dispensation for Masons to form a Lodge in Nebraska City. The Lodge was chartered Giddings Lodge #156 on May 28, 1856. the same year that Nebraska City was incorporated. You could say, the ground was broke in the city by Freemasons. The question I have is, were they ALL also members of the K.G.C.? There is no record of the names of the charter members of the first Masonic lodge. As you can imagine there is no list of any of them because they all burned up in the 1860 Nebraska City fire along with any other records that were kept, just a few days after George Bickley's K.G.C. meeting in Raliegh.

 

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[Kace]

When I was reading about the history of the Masonic Temple in Washington D.C., I remember reading that there were five 33 degree initiation locations scattered around the country which were closed when the D.C. Temple was built.
Does anyone know where these were?
I have also been wondering that since AP was involved in ritual/initiation of multiple organizations, did one site serve more than one group?
As I have mentioned previously on another thread, I believe I have found an intiation site that was used from 1870's right up to the time of the D.C. temple. In other words , it was closed at some point. Closed very carefully. Nothing destroyed, everything hidden and subtle clues left. It is very much like outdoor British initiation sites from the 1700's that used hedgerows to enclose the site. Mine is enclosed by 8 ft tall, 1 vara thick walls.
I suspect it is 33 degree because it includes mathmatical principles and ideas that are not mentioned in any up to 32 degree material I have been given and read.

WH...I didn't know if you knew that you can call the Temple in DC and ask them to research anything related to any initiation sites, members or lodges.

They have a team of interns that will do the research and call or email you back with any Masonic information you want. They might even use regular mail, I don't remember.

Anyone can go there and use their reference research library and tour the place. There's nothing off limits. You don't have to be a Mason. There's only two times a year you can't do that due to the national conferences.

It's a great source to use since the team does that for you if you don't plan to go yourself ... just have a list of what you want to know ready for them when you call.

They even have cool podcasts on different past Masons that you can listen to anytime.

Good Luck,
Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

TWO sources of info in DC; Masonic Temple in Alexandria, Va. & House of the Temple in DC (SR/SJ); been to BOTH.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Senior Deacon talked about this library I believe. I would like to make the trip one of these days and spend a week or so pilfering through the archives.
https://grandlodgeofiowa.org/library-2/

 

[L.C. BAKER]

When I was reading about the history of the Masonic Temple in Washington D.C., I remember reading that there were five 33 degree initiation locations scattered around the country which were closed when the D.C. Temple was built.
Does anyone know where these were?

I do not, but I am curious to hear about it.

L.C.

 

[Kace]

I do not, but I am curious to hear about it.

L.C.

You can call the Temple and they will tell you what lodges were closed or opened and when that happened. You can also take a virtual tour of the Temple...I know it's not the same as going there in person, but might give you more ideas about the things you would like to have the interns get you from the research library there.

The podcasts are a great feature I think.

Just a suggestion.

Kace

 

[White Heart]

WH...I didn't know if you knew that you can call the Temple in DC and ask them to research anything related to any initiation sites, members or lodges.

Kace, I did make calls to the Library and Temple and an associate went to the library asking about my site. I was referred to a gentleman who said they knew of nothing in my area. I did not ask about previous initiation locations.

I checked with the Blue and SR Lodges locally and was given access to the tall, narrow, membership books from 1870 to 1910 in the state's Masonic archive. My location is unmentioned in local, state and national records and none of the historical figures involved show up on any member rolls. Curious to me, is that no one from any level had an interest in looking at what I had found.
One fellow in the SR Lodge responding to my description of my outdoor classroom for the subject matter of the quadrivium said "We have lost all of that".
WH

 

[Kace]

Kace, I did make calls to the Library and Temple and an associate went to the library asking about my site. I was referred to a gentleman who said they knew of nothing in my area. I did not ask about previous initiation locations.

I checked with the Blue and SR Lodges locally and was given access to the tall, narrow, membership books from 1870 to 1910 in the state's Masonic archive. My location is unmentioned in local, state and national records and none of the historical figures involved show up on any member rolls. Curious to me, is that no one from any level had an interest in looking at what I had found.
One fellow in the SR Lodge responding to my description of my outdoor classroom for the subject matter of the quadrivium said "We have lost all of that".
WH

WH...That last guy sounded like he was dismissive and blowing you off. Lotta Help huh. Geez.

Have you confirmed in someway this actually was a Masonic site? If you have told about it on here, just tell me where and I'll read it. I don't want you to have to repeat yourself. What thread is it on? I'd like to see what you've found and what items were left or hidden.

I read what you just posted about the walls....Am I right to take that as 4, 33 1/3" thick walls? No Roof? Is there a reason you say Vara instead of Foot on thickness but not height? You said 8 ft tall and 1 Vara thick, instead of 2.8? Vara Tall and 1 Vara Thick or 8' Tall and 3' Thick. The Vara being a Spanish/Portuguese measurement reference and it's accepted US equivalent is One Yard. Is that right?

Bear with me on this...I'm going from memory on a conversation and just checking If I'm remembering right! lol! Please correct me if I'm wrong cause I could be way off.

Wasn't the Vara term and measurements used in Texas almost exclusively as far as in the US? I understand it was used in NM,AZ,CA too...TX being the most prominent...The only time I hear it up here is in reference to old plat maps on land in Texas and when a sub contractor I used in a pinch to pour 3' concrete footings sent a crew of Hispanic workers. That happened Once... They dug between 3' and 6' down and filled with concrete! 1-2 Vara! HaHa! The sub had to absorb the the overage.

I'm assuming where you are talking about is in the US. What part are you in?

I just remembered....Rebel was a Mason and he said he researches Texas. He might know the answers you are looking for. Worth a shot.

I haven't seen Senior Deacon here for awhile but he's deeply researched Masonic history...that's who Baker referenced.

I know I haven't answered any questions you have and my response to you Are Questions,lol....sorry about that and I appreciate you answering me. I just never use those terms of measurement and wondered the significance in your post.

Thanks,
Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Senior Deacon has BETTER knowledge of Texas than I do... haven't seen him, either... miss him & his "Knowledge Data Base". KDB is "KEY".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

When I was reading about the history of the Masonic Temple in Washington D.C., I remember reading that there were five 33 degree initiation locations scattered around the country which were closed when the D.C. Temple was built.
Does anyone know where these were?
I have also been wondering that since AP was involved in ritual/initiation of multiple organizations, did one site serve more than one group?
As I have mentioned previously on another thread, I believe I have found an intiation site that was used from 1870's right up to the time of the D.C. temple. In other words , it was closed at some point. Closed very carefully. Nothing destroyed, everything hidden and subtle clues left. It is very much like outdoor British initiation sites from the 1700's that used hedgerows to enclose the site. Mine is enclosed by 8 ft tall, 1 vara thick walls.
I suspect it is 33 degree because it includes mathmatical principles and ideas that are not mentioned in any up to 32 degree material I have been given and read.

WH, to be 33rd, you have to 32nd of the Scottish Rite (SR/SJ); I was 32nd, not active, now; I was in a deep coma in 1992-93 FOR 2 1/2 months & "dues" could not be paid, since I was CLINICALLY DEAD. Could have "flat-lined"... BUT! So, a Brother Mason had me DEMITTED from SR/SJ (Scottish Rite) & Shrine (BOTH in Richmond, Va. where I was in a "Step-Down" Unit for TBI, after Brain Surgery). Point being... I would check with the HOUSE of THE TEMPLE (Scottish Rite) Library... Been there! AWESOME! SR/SJ History THERE may include those 33rd Degree sites, you want. HH! Good Luck! Have FUN!

 

[White Heart]

WH... I just never use those terms of measurement and wondered the significance in your post.

Thanks,
Kace

Kace,
In the spanish, Mexican and American controlled southwest the spanish foot, the english foot and the vara were all used. The spanish foot and the english foot are nearly exactly the same. If I remember correctly, the spanish mile is 70 feet longer than the english mile of 1800. The league change considerably from 1600 and Onate's entrada to 1840 when Stephen Austin was contracted to survey Texas. For the 1780 to 1880 period in most of the southwest a league is 2.5 miles.
I have done years of contruction work in Costa Rica. In costa Rica the building is done in feet and inches, although lumber is purchased in Varas. Many of the fixtures and such are from Europe and thus metric. It keeps the mind focused.
WH

 

[L.C. BAKER]

"Stold"... SECRET word...?

They were not the first. Kabala is all taken from the ancient Hellenistic spiritual teaching. Everything changes given enough time, even the knowledge to decipher the truth. It all comes down to a timeline with NO known beginning or end, isn't that Ironic?Hellenic Migrations and Katadesmos: A Paradigm of Macedonian Speech | Marcus Templar - Academia.edu

 

[Kace]

Kace,
In the spanish, Mexican and American controlled southwest the spanish foot, the english foot and the vara were all used. The spanish foot and the english foot are nearly exactly the same. If I remember correctly, the spanish mile is 70 feet longer than the english mile of 1800. The league change considerably from 1600 and Onate's entrada to 1840 when Stephen Austin was contracted to survey Texas. For the 1780 to 1880 period in most of the southwest a league is 2.5 miles.
I have done years of contruction work in Costa Rica. In costa Rica the building is done in feet and inches, although lumber is purchased in Varas. Many of the fixtures and such are from Europe and thus metric. It keeps the mind focused.
WH

Thanks WH!

Kace

 

[Kace]

This isn't about the Jesse that typically comes up....But, while searching for information on him.. 'Made Master Mason On Sight' and 'Freemason' Caught My Eye...And It Was Recent! I Had to read it.

Check this out...Making Good Men Better?? This is why giving a short cut isn't a great idea in some cases...like this for example.



Did you guys know about him being Made On Sight and what all has happened with him?

For you current or former Masons...What do you think about it?...And of course Everyone Else's thoughts?

What Do You Think About His Title/Rank Now?

It's my understanding that a Mason can be expelled for immoral conduct among other things...Yet for this he's Still a 33rd° Master Mason...Can Anyone Explain That?

Is it because he was "Made On Sight"?

Does Being Made On Sight Not Have The Same Code of Ethics, Expectations or Rules That Masons Who Actually Learn The Craft and Work Through The Degrees Have?

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Jesse Jackson...? Dunno. HIS business...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This isn't about the Jesse that typically comes up....But, while searching for information on him.. 'Made Master Mason On Sight' and 'Freemason' Caught My Eye...And It Was Recent! I Had to read it.

Check this out...Making Good Men Better?? This is why giving a short cut isn't a great idea in some cases...like this for example.

View attachment 1677819

Did you guys know about him being Made On Sight and what all has happened with him?

For you current or former Masons...What do you think about it?...And of course Everyone Else's thoughts?

What Do You Think About His Title/Rank Now?

It's my understanding that a Mason can be expelled for immoral conduct among other things...Yet for this he's Still a 33rd° Master Mason...Can Anyone Explain That?

Is it because he was "Made On Sight"?

Does Being Made On Sight Not Have The Same Code of Ethics, Expectations or Rules That Masons Who Actually Learn The Craft and Work Through The Degrees Have?

Kace

YEP! SAME Codes of Ethics, Expectations/Rules; Jesse Jackson...? Prince Hall Free-Mason.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I don't want to wreck Kace's thread but I do want to discuss Mr. Daniel Burnham who is known for his role in the creation of master plans for the development of a number of cities, including Chicago, Manila, Baguio and downtown Washington, D.C. He also designed several famous buildings, including the Flatiron Building of triangular shape in New York City, I have never doubted the man's ability to perform a given task to fantastic results, but his ability to get selected for the job intrigues me. Was he really that good, or was there some string pulling going on to use steel and delegate the first general contracts ever given to selected contractors in U.S. history? Steel for building material was a concept not well taken by the architectural community in 1904 but I suspect it was a new idea WELL liked by A. Carnegie and associates. The city lot it was built on has an astounding history of money changing hands before the building was designed by Burnham!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_A._Fuller

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatiron_Building

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

I don't want to wreck Kace's thread but I do want to discuss Mr. Daniel Burnham who is known for his role in the creation of master plans for the development of a number of cities, including Chicago, Manila, Baguio and downtown Washington, D.C. He also designed several famous buildings, including the Flatiron Building of triangular shape in New York City, I have never doubted the man's ability to perform a given task to fantastic results, but his ability to get selected for the job intrigues me. Was he really that good, or was there some string pulling going on to use steel and delegate the first general contracts ever given to selected contractors in U.S. history? Steel for building material was a concept not well taken by the architectural community in 1904 but I suspect it was a new idea WELL liked by A. Carnegie and associates. The city lot it was built on has an astounding history of money changing hands before the building was designed by Burnham!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_A._Fuller

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatiron_Building

Yes, he was just that good. Daniel H. Burnham was THE Preeminent Architect of his time. It would have been more surprising if he had not been chosen for those projects.


David Rowland Francis was also a personal protege of Roosevelt, of several Presidents actually.



In his career he served as the founding member of the St. Louis Mining and Stock Exchange in the fall of 1880.

In 1885, he was elected Mayor of St. Louis, Missouri.

In 1888, he was elected Governor of Missouri.

In 1896, Francis was appointed United States Secretary of the Interior by President Grover Cleveland and served until 1897.

Francis was one of the main promoters of the St. Louis World's Fair of 1904 (which was twice as big as the Chicago event), serving as President of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition.

In 1905, after being elected President of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition Company, he was sent to Europe by the World's Fair directors to thank Kings, Emperors and other rulers for their part in making the exposition a success. He was decorated by the Emperors of Germany and Austria, and Wilhelmina, the Queen of the Netherlands.

President Woodrow Wilson appointed Francis as the U.S. Ambassador to Russia between 1916 and 1917, during the Russian Revolution of 1917.

An interesting career to say the least and definitely worth a study. Could this make him one of your "Monopolists"?

Here he is pictured at Arbor Lodge with President Cleveland...



Here with Teddy Roosevelt and Cleveland...



Here with William H. Taft...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NICE!

 

[uglymailman]

Comming in late on this but thought this might help your measurement thing.



https://www.convertunits.com/from/vara+[Texas]/to/feet
The Texas and S.S. U.S. measurements might be off a tad. When I was surveying in central TX. I was told the first measurements were done by tying a rag on a wagon wheel and so many turns of the wagon wheel was equal to a vara. When operating in the middle of nowhere with few land marks this was probably good enough. Kind of like government work. Good luck.