LDM why you cant get it ! MAP #10

[JackH]

Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community (finally, clarification)

According to the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community: (Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community: Economic Development)

and Wikipedia: (Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

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[JackH]

About that "Plow" ATV.........

The roads just below Red Mountain that lead from the "Compound"
have "Heavy" use, then blocked, rerouted ?

Yet the road furthest left next to the "Ring" is open and the next
vertical road is blocked. Using your Google Earth (time slider) will
show many changes in this area of travel.

Essentially, the ATV's coming back from Red Mountain leads to the
roads across the main road, which seems to have the most activity.

There is only a small area that has been Patrolled ? below Red Mountain
along the Salt River, and little attention up the Verde River.

On 06.09.2012 the Rangers intercept 2 kayaks Red Mountain side of
the Salt River.

Quote: The Gila River Indian Community Police Department provides Law Enforcement services to the Community and it’s members in the areas of criminal investigations, preventative patrol and directed patrol functions. It is committed to the protection of personal property and preservation of life and the overall improvement of the Community’s quality of life.

 

[JackH]

Red Mountain & Sandy Mountain Preserves

According to the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community
Economic Development MAP:

There are the Red Mountain Preserve and the Sandy Mountain Preserve,
as well as the Saddleback Mountain Preserve.

Red Mountain main subject of these Threads and Sandy Mountain area
are now included in my interests.

1) It appears that 'Little Buffalo' is included in the Sandy Mountain preserve,
but well after thousands of tons of terrain was explored, sifted through,
and hauled out.

2) Many have questioned by the satellite images, as to Why so much area
was turned over at 'Little Buffalo' ?

3) I contend that the Owners know how much has been removed from the
subject 'Mine' from "Waltz's" day. I also feel they found some of it, but not
all, as to the tireless effort to pursue Their Interests. Unless Someone got
there first and left many clues of their Search there.

4) The Owners have already been to the large Hill N/W which is also included
in the Preserve. And I would like to think They were Successful there, as
little to any area is disturbed.


Jack

 

[JackH]

I would think these are Not Rocks !

Cleaning house ? (11.20.2009)

2009

• The new Wild Horse Pass Hotel & Casino opened October 30................200,000,000

 

[markmar]

Hi jack

The Tribe have a money source and they do a good investment .
Our quest is where is the source . Is the source the LDM ? And , where is it ?

Marius

 

[JackH]

Hi jack

The Tribe have a money source and they do a good investment .
Our quest is where is the source . Is the source the LDM ? And , where is it ?

Marius

walking distance, Marius. walking distance.......

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Hi jack

The Tribe have a money source and they do a good investment .
Our quest is where is the source . Is the source the LDM ? And , where is it ?

Marius

Im saying BIG NO . Just other big money making money on a start up .

 

[markmar]

Charlie

You are right . Put the first line of my previous tread in the past .

Marius

 

[JackH]

Im saying BIG NO . Just other big money making money on a start up .

From post #110 which has a link to this information for verifacation.

Tribal projects boost Phoenix construction sector

pg. 1) Quote:
American Indian tribes and their casinos continue to serve as a lifeline for those in the construction industry and related businesses that still are reeling from the real estate market decline.
Arizona’s construction industry has lost 123,000 jobs since 2006, one of the worst losses for the industry nationwide. Employment peaked at more than 240,000 before plummeting to 116,800 last month, a 51 percent drop.
Those losses would have been much worse if not for work from Arizona tribes.
pg. 2) Quote:
“Fortunately, the tribes have weathered the economic downturn quite well and are one of the groups that is continuing to move forward with large-scale projects.


Gentlemen,

(Building projects especially Casino's are the result of a growing Economy. Not the other way around.)

Jack

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

vegas investers .....

 

[JackH]

Jack:

A few questions....

Which Tribe controls your area of interest ?
Red Mountain and the small hill in particular.
When and why did they close the area to recreational hikers ?

What is the origin of the Maze depicted on the Pima-Maricopa Seal, and which European writer was the first to describe this Maze and it's location.
Does another Maze exist in another location similar to the first ?
Is there a larger Maze, between the two mentioned above, which can be traversed on foot ?
Another cultural group in Arizona has a similar Maze as well .
Do you know who they are ?

I'm not trying to throw any curve balls across your plate.
Finding the answers to these and other questions can get pretty interesting, believe me.

Regards:SH.

Somehiker,

Thank You for those questions, and I will answer some this way.

The Maze in the area of our Interest can be found at Casa Grande.
Which I would think as old as the Ancient Channels.

A Tribe in Arizona has been separated by the division of the US and
Mexico. Considering this link, I would think Tribal influence could pass
from one to another. The Ancient Tribes in Mexico I have no doubt
used many symbols that can reflect much more than the Maze. Is
Montezuma's Treasure in Arizona ? I am not privileged to know that.

The Maze type design has been in effect in Scotland, England and other
European countries for Millenniums. Mesmerizing, but not to far from
coiling up a rope, or untangling one in design. Probably one of the
best designs to capture one's thoughts in a time of need, on the large
scale as so many have done for who knows how long ago.

The Indigenous Tribes of the Area of our concern have been around
since the beginning. They have had interlopers in their front or back
yard since the Spanish arrived. Most likely a thousand years after their
organizational culture matured.

I believe the Tribes knew before and gained knowledge of More sites
of precious metals once the sites were mined. The Tribes were the
only ones who didn't leave and watched every move before the others
left the area.

Today I would think the I'itoi has a meaning beyond which we understand.
I believe there is meaning/message beyond most who worship it do not
have privilege to. Such as our government treats us.

I also believe the I'itoi by Tribes other than the Pima-Maricopa Community,
worship their own, because they may (HAVE) their own.

As I remember not too many decades ago, the North American Indian
Peoples were the poorest among us, as in monetary wealth, with a few
exceptions. Today there are those who are ready to invest extremely large
amounts of money. I think it is a time in the culture of the North American
Indian Tribes to secure their future, and I could not be happier for them.


Jack

 

[somehiker]

Every Member of This Minnesota Indian Tribe Makes at Least $1 Million a Year | TheBlaze.com

 

[somehiker]

"The Maze in the area of our Interest can be found at Casa Grande.
Which I would think as old as the Ancient Channels."

Jack:

There's four that I know of.
Three are carved into interior walls of the ruins at Casa Grande, Montezuma's Castle, and the upper ruin of Tonto National Monument.
The fourth is on a rock face in the Sups. The only one I don't have a photo of is the one at Tonto NM.
Fr.Juan Nentvig, a Jesuit Padre and explorer, first mentioned the carving at Casa Grande in his rough essay, published in 1764.
"El rudo ensayo. Descripción geográfica, natural y curiosa de la provincia de Sonora, 1764"
He also included a sketch of the carving.



Casa Grande

Montezuma Castle

 

[JackH]

Every Member of This Minnesota Indian Tribe Makes at Least $1 Million a Year | TheBlaze.com

There are 11 Tribes in Minnesota with several factions ! (Minnesota Indian Affairs Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

All the Indigenous Peoples of North America should be so Fortunate.

 

[JackH]

"The Maze in the area of our Interest can be found at Casa Grande.
Which I would think as old as the Ancient Channels."

Jack:

There's four that I know of.
Three are carved into interior walls of the ruins at Casa Grande, Montezuma's Castle, and the upper ruin of Tonto National Monument.
The fourth is on a rock face in the Sups. The only one I don't have a photo of is the one at Tonto NM.
Fr.Juan Nentvig, a Jesuit Padre and explorer, first mentioned the carving at Casa Grande in his rough essay, published in 1764.
"El rudo ensayo. Descripción geográfica, natural y curiosa de la provincia de Sonora, 1764"
He also included a sketch of the carving.

View attachment 739432

View attachment 739433 Casa Grande

View attachment 739434 Montezuma Castle

That first one somehiker, looks like what's left of my
brain gathering some of this information to post !

 

[hooch]

A million a year really? Lol Life sucks get a helmet, growing up on a reservation you have every opportunity to get off of it. Lazy people stay on the res, the rest leave.

 

[JackH]

[h=3](Labyrinth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Cultural meanings[/h]Prehistoric labyrinths are believed to have served as traps for malevolent spirits or as defined paths for ritual dances. In medieval times, the labyrinth symbolized a hard path to God with a clearly defined center (God) and one entrance (birth). In their cross-cultural study of signs and symbols, Patterns that Connect, Carl Schuster and Edmund Carpenter present various forms of the labyrinth and suggest various possible meanings, including not only a sacred path to the home of a sacred ancestor, but also, perhaps, a representation of the ancestor him/herself: "...many [New World] Indians who make the labyrinth regard it as a sacred symbol, a beneficial ancestor, a deity. In this they may be preserving its original meaning: the ultimate ancestor, here evoked by two continuous lines joining its twelve primary joints." .[SUP][34][/SUP]
Labyrinths can be thought of as symbolic forms of pilgrimage; people can walk the path, ascending toward salvation or enlightenment. Many people could not afford to travel to holy sites and lands, so labyrinths and prayer substituted for such travel. Later, the religious significance of labyrinths faded, and they served primarily for entertainment, though recently their spiritual aspect has seen a resurgence.
Many newly made labyrinths exist today, in churches and parks. Labyrinths are used by modern mystics to help achieve a contemplative state. Walking among the turnings, one loses track of direction and of the outside world, and thus quiets the mind. The Labyrinth Society[SUP][35][/SUP] provides a locator for modern labyrinths all over the world.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Man In The Maze; A Tohono O'odham Legend | KATAGOYO'S Southwest Home

 

[somehiker]

Could they have been imported to the SW, along with Catholicism ?
I believe this may be the explanation.
Some of the oldest dated classic carvings of this type (2000 bce), are found in Galecia,Spain.
http://www.igaciencia.org/images/labirinto1.png
Many are found in medieval churches throughout Europe and Scandanavia.
Likely adopted from the Greeks and Romans.
I wonder when and where the idea of a "Sun God" in the centre originated ?

Regards:SH.

 

[JackH]

"The Maze in the area of our Interest can be found at Casa Grande.
Which I would think as old as the Ancient Channels."

Jack:

There's four that I know of.
Three are carved into interior walls of the ruins at Casa Grande, Montezuma's Castle, and the upper ruin of Tonto National Monument.
The fourth is on a rock face in the Sups. The only one I don't have a photo of is the one at Tonto NM.
Fr.Juan Nentvig, a Jesuit Padre and explorer, first mentioned the carving at Casa Grande in his rough essay, published in 1764.
"El rudo ensayo. Descripción geográfica, natural y curiosa de la provincia de Sonora, 1764"
He also included a sketch of the carving.

View attachment 739432

View attachment 739433 Casa Grande

View attachment 739434 Montezuma Castle

Somehiker,

your middle photo from Casa Grande, was once used
apparently to (zero-in) a rifle as a shooting Target !


Jack