Makro Racer vs Fisher F75

[corpsman]

okay, guys... let's hear it. under the same conditions, with stock coils, how do the Makro Racer and the Fisher F75 compare on depth?

 

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[LuckyLarry]

One is an unproven toy, the other is a serious/proven gold/coin/relic/silver hunter. The Makro is foreign-made from my investigations, gets no rave reviews (except from those who made it), and no bragging rights yet either. In short, there are very few (if any) laboratory mice or test rats to give an honest review yet. Usually it takes 2-3 years for a metal detector to prove itself, one way, or the other. Personally, I would let someone else be the Guinea pig, $649 is a lot of $$ to toss into the toilet in case it is inadequate. And BTW, the Fisher F75 is at the very end, the pinnacle of the engineering term "the point of diminishing returns". In other words, it is at the very end of the depth potential spectrum and would require a tremendous amount of additional voltage (Like a Nautilus) to go any deeper, and then it would seem to weigh as much as a 7 pound lunch box. Otherwise as regards to being at the very end of a detector's potential the F75 would go deeper than its own self as is, but it can't, and it doesn't, and it would have to run clear down to around 5 Khz consistently or lower too, but then it no longer would behave or run smoothly for relic hunting. Good luck to you..

 

[Jeff(or)]

One is an unproven toy, the other is a serious/proven gold/coin/relic/silver hunter. The Makro is foreign-made from my investigations, gets no rave reviews (except from those who made it), and no bragging rights yet either. In short, there are very few (if any) laboratory mice or test rats to give an honest review yet. Usually it takes 2-3 years for a metal detector to prove itself, one way, or the other. Personally, I would let someone else be the Guinea pig, $649 is a lot of $$ to toss into the toilet in case it is inadequate. And BTW, the Fisher F75 is at the very end, the pinnacle of the engineering term "the point of diminishing returns". In other words, it is at the very end of the depth potential spectrum and would require a tremendous amount of additional voltage (Like a Nautilus) to go any deeper, and then it would seem to weigh as much as a 7 pound lunch box. Otherwise as regards to being at the very end of a detector's potential the F75 would go deeper than its own self as is, but it can't, and it doesn't, and it would have to run clear down to around 5 Khz consistently or lower too, but then it no longer would behave or run smoothly for relic hunting. Good luck to you..

How many hours do you now have, using the Racer?

 

[Loco-Digger]

I have experience with the F75, mine is a SE LTD that I had upgraded last winter. I thought about the racer, it is a sexy design, but soon after they were released I started to see them being sold as slightly used on both Ebay and craigslist. I can only take it that it did not live up to the hype for those individuals. Larry has the credentials and I always appreciate his posting on topics here on Tnet. If LL saya it's so, well then it is so IMHO.

 

[Phantasman]

If it were me, I'd seriously consider the T2 Classic that has been reduced to $499. 5 year warranty, plus a better selection of coils over the Makro. The difference between $649 and $499 is a good NEL coil on a detector that says it picks up coins up to 15".

 

[LuckyLarry]

Jeff, only "newbies' keep track of their "hours." We who design and/or build them don't need to, we already know how they are made and what to expect from them.

 

[LuckyLarry]

Thanks for the kind words Loco, Mostly I come on here to help people get what they need instead of them only hearing the hype..

 

[Jeff(or)]

Jeff, only "newbies' keep track of their "hours." We who design and/or build them don't need to, we already know how they are made and what to expect from them.

Sorry, it was a very simple question, hoping for a very simple answer. If you don't know,......well...have a great day, Larry.

 

[LuckyLarry]

Not much of anything offends me Jeff and you have not, but I never have logged hours on a metal detector, and I own more than 25 of them..

I'll use the words of one of my (favorite) martial arts instructors, a Sogo Kempo Master...

"It's better to stick with what we already know works." But I will tell you one thing for sure, First Texas and Whites detectors handle our ground here best, period. Tesoro does a fair job, but the lower priced ones work best here because the harsh soil drives the top end ones nearly to DT's.

 

[Jeff(or)]

Larry, Was not trying to offend you, just asked a question. That is great you have 25 detectors, I only have 4, I picked each one to do one specific task and do it well. And yes, certain First Texas and White's detectors do perform well in the various soil conditions in Oregon (excluding EMI in certain areas).

 

[Newfiehunter]

I have been looking at both the Makro Racer and the Fisher 75...As I recall and my memory is very good, the F70/75 received very bad reviews when they were first introduced...They were called cheap plastic toys by many and considered very unstable...I am a Fisher fan myself but only for the Los Banos CZ line and 12XX series of detectors..There are many positive reviews of the Racer from England and there is a Youtube Video showing this single frequency unit performing amazingly well on wet sandy beaches...Just because a detector is made in a foreign country does not mean it is not good machine...The Fors Core is considered to be a very fine machine..Here is a message that I received from an experienced detectorist who used both the Racer and F75...He went into very fine detail and took the time to describe both metal detectors.

I've done several tests between my F75 and the Racer with the 5" coil at an old site that I've been detecting for years with everything I've owned - Sovereign, Etrac, F70, F75, Omega, AT Pro, etc. It's a small spot, no larger then about 50'x75' but has yielded dozens of old silver coins, Indian heads, tokens, Victorian era jewelry, etc. for the past few years it dried up, and I'd work hard to eek out a green wheatie or an Indian head, and I hadn't pulled a silver coin from there for several years. When I first got the Racer, I took it and my F75 to the same spot with both machines using their 11" DD coil, and first ran the F75 over the spot. Nothing, not a single diggable target. Then I took the Racer over it with the default 3-tone settings and was amazed that I pulled FOUR old coins out of there, including two silver coins. It doesn't sound like a lot, but I've worked this site hard over the past 8 years. The next trip there I took the F75 and Racer with their 5" coils. Again I first went over the site with the F75 and 5" coil, not a single coin was found with the F75. Then the Racer was up, amazingly I dug NINE old coins, this is the most I've ever dug from this site in a single hunt, even when I first started digging it and was digging three Barbers per hunt + indian heads, etc. I was astonished. Then on the 4th I took both machines there again, and again the F75 was skunked. The Racer got a 1900 V nickle, green teens wheatie, and Barber dime! I was excited to find one more Barber dime from this site. Also found a 1930's Tootsie Toy Zephyr Train, and a Crackers Jack ring. While these finds in themselves may not sound great, it is the fact that they came from a pounded site, a site that many machines over the last 40 years have been over.

That said, I've made many great finds with my F75 over the years, gold jewelery, hundreds of silver coins, including Spanish Reales, a bust half dollar, Morgan silver dollar, Seateds, lots of Barbers, some great buttons, etc. After the :LTD2 upgrade, it's a greatly improved machine, BUT lets be honest, the F75 platform is going on ten years old. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be using my F75. I do a lot of relic hunting in the fall/winter, relic hunting in iron infested sites, and this fall/winter it's going to be really interesting to see which machine finds the most goods.

It is a very informative read...

 

[LuckyLarry]

Computer error..

 

[LuckyLarry]

Newfie, Labrador is part of the Appalachian System, an enormous area of very low Fe content soil. The Makro Racer is a 14 Khz single freq, and works better, much better - in mild soil like in Newfoundland, or Europe, including and especially in the deep south USA, the British Isles, Western and eastern old Soviet Block, etc. Oregon soil is by and large BRUTAL compared to the milder soils elsewhere that you speak of, and Jeff lives in Oregon. We got hit by the meteor belt, the meteor showers a couple of million years ago. Labrador clear down through Florida did not, nor did Europe or the British Isles, or Scandinavia or the middle East. . We often have as much as 1/4+ of our soil here as iron filings, Labrador does not, nor does anywhere else. I know of places near here where a single freq does not work at all in any way, and a multi-freq just warbles or howls.

There is something rather suspicious about your report so please help me out here, because it is not making sense to me at all with the report of more (and) so many finds being made with the Makro, because it's about mathematics, including the higher VLF circuitry ones. Did you know that the Fisher F75, the Nautiluses, and the T2 and Fisher 1270 and the Tesoro Tejon have all reached the pinnacle of depth in a (higher) single frequency machine? I mean in engineering terms that they have reached the end of the spectrum of diminishing returns. We simply cannot go deeper than any of those, they are at the wall, the end of the journey. Radiated magnetic or electrical fields eventually reach the end of the run, and then in order to go even a hairline more they have to have the voltage increased by 400x or more, and that would require a 1200 pound battery, at least. There is no magical number beyond that, it's the end of the race, all the writing has been done, ain't nuthin' left but the cryin'.. Filters and voltage control or resistance or capacitive discharge changes do not improve anything either, nor do types of coil windings, or more powerful transformers, not even stacked coils or 3 tiered ones, etc. In fact, the Macro can not go deeper than the above with the same size/type coil, and it is not more capable than the others either. The only thing that can change its performance - is operator performance or skill, that's all. But more than anything else, European detectors commonly do (not) present anything more or better than American detectors both using same size/type coil, they just present them differently on the panels.

Hence my question: Why would the Macro produce more or better results when the other detectors have already reached the end of the line in performance? And my next question is. You do know of course, that Eastern Europe detectors (commonly) have more malfunctions in their electronics than American ones, right? Look what happened to the Teknetics line from Bulgaria or the Czech Republic for example, it basically disappeared because it was insufficient here and broke down more quickly and almost immediately at will, and eventually people discovered that it got blown away by other better-made, more reliable American detectors too. . This is why I suggested to not be someone's test rat. Waaaaay too many people have bought detectors from Eastern Europe and can't even find someone to service them any more. Most metal detectorists aren't like me, I can repair one, but most folks can't. Everyone should beware of anything new, you could be sorry otherwise. Don't take the chance, let someone else try the new stuff, not you, you are more important than that, and you aren't somebody's test rat either.. Wait and see instead before you buy, new isn't always better, it's usually just different.

 

[Newfiehunter]

Newfie, Labrador is part of the Appalachian System, an enormous area of very low Fe content soil. The Makro Racer is a 14 Khz single freq, and works better, much better - in mild soil like in Newfoundland, or Europe, including and especially in the deep south USA, the British Isles, Western and eastern old Soviet Block, etc. Oregon soil is by and large BRUTAL compared to the milder soils elsewhere that you speak of, and Jeff lives in Oregon. We got hit by the meteor belt, the meteor showers a couple of million years ago. Labrador clear down through Florida did not, nor did Europe or the British Isles, or Scandinavia or the middle East. . We often have as much as 1/4+ of our soil here as iron filings, Labrador does not, nor does anywhere else. I know of places near here where a single freq does not work at all in any way, and a multi-freq just warbles or howls.

There is something rather suspicious about your report so please help me out here, because it is not making sense to me at all with the report of more (and) so many finds being made with the Makro, because it's about mathematics, including the higher VLF circuitry ones. Did you know that the Fisher F75, the Nautiluses, and the T2 and Fisher 1270 and the Tesoro Tejon have all reached the pinnacle of depth in a (higher) single frequency machine? I mean in engineering terms that they have reached the end of the spectrum of diminishing returns. We simply cannot go deeper than any of those, they are at the wall, the end of the journey. Radiated magnetic or electrical fields eventually reach the end of the run, and then in order to go even a hairline more they have to have the voltage increased by 400x or more, and that would require a 1200 pound battery, at least. There is no magical number beyond that, it's the end of the race, all the writing has been done, ain't nuthin' left but the cryin'.. Filters and voltage control or resistance or capacitive discharge changes do not improve anything either, nor do types of coil windings, or more powerful transformers, not even stacked coils or 3 tiered ones, etc. In fact, the Macro can not go deeper than the above with the same size/type coil, and it is not more capable than the others either. The only thing that can change its performance - is operator performance or skill, that's all. But more than anything else, European detectors commonly do (not) present anything more or better than American detectors both using same size/type coil, they just present them differently on the panels.

Hence my question: Why would the Macro produce more or better results when the other detectors have already reached the end of the line in performance? And my next question is. You do know of course, that Eastern Europe detectors (commonly) have more malfunctions in their electronics than American ones, right? Look what happened to the Teknetics line from Bulgaria or the Czech Republic for example, it basically disappeared because it was insufficient here and broke down more quickly and almost immediately at will, and eventually people discovered that it got blown away by other better-made, more reliable American detectors too. . This is why I suggested to not be someone's test rat. Waaaaay too many people have bought detectors from Eastern Europe and can't even find someone to service them any more. Most metal detectorists aren't like me, I can repair one, but most folks can't. Everyone should beware of anything new, you could be sorry otherwise. Don't take the chance, let someone else try the new stuff, not you, you are more important than that, and you aren't somebody's test rat either.. Wait and see instead before you buy, new isn't always better, it's usually just different.

Hi Larry!

With all due respect and as a member of Tnet, I admire your knowledge and value your opinions but you are incorrect with some of your information...Yes, i do reside in Newfoundland, however, it is only the west coast of the island that is part of the Appalachian System, not the whole island itself..I reside on the Avalon Peninsula where the soil is much more acidic and heavily mineralized than the west coast..Just wanted to clarify that..

Secondly, I am not promoting the Racer in any way shape or form and this was the information I received from an experienced detectorist in California because I was trying to decide between the Racer and F75...You are totally correct to be careful when purchasing a new unit on the market and I'm also skeptical and very cautious about that...The Racer has its issues...The most notable, faulty coils which Makro has admitted to and from I have heard they replace the coils immediately..From what I have seen it seems very stable even on wet salt water beaches..That is why I am on the fence regarding the Racer. As for the F75, when that detector was first introduced I correctly remember the backlash it received...I was tempted to pull the trigger on the F75 since I do like the warranty and the tones are very similar to my 20 years old CZ5 which probably has a limited life.

Jeff asked you a legitimate question if you have used the Racer but you refused to answer which indicates you probably haven't..You even called him a "newbie"...Very insulting comment to another member...How can you call this detector "an unproven toy" if you never used it?....That indicates complete arrogance on your part...Just because a company is from outside the Good ole US of A, that it produces metal detectors that are toys or garbage? That is closed minded thinking...

The Nokta Fors Core also seems like a good machine but I am still cautious and to be honest, worried about it manufactured in Turkey...I am like most North Americans and would prefer to buy American made detectors where it is easier to get repaired should something go wrong but I try to keep an open mind...I am not advocating the Racer but most members prefer to degrade another company without even using their products is not giving a company a fair shake...Nokta/Makro is the only company that addresses members personally on forums like Tnet, unlike the companies that already have a reputation and don't care about their customers at all...JMHO

 

[LuckyLarry]

Oh no Newfie, I did not say (or infer) that Jeff was a "newbie", and I never do insult anyone on here either. In fact I don't insult anyone at all anywhere. , and I have no opinions about anything at all either, and I've been that way all my life, unlike most other people. I'm here to help, not to insult.

Here is what I wrote, and I didn't call Jeff a "newbie:, not did I infer he was, I spoke about those who (are) "newbies" as compared to those who build or design our metal detectors (me and others). Look at my info here;

My short bio:

"No brand loyalty here but worked as a circuit board DESIGNER/SUPERVISOR for a major detector Co." My reference was between "Newbies", and people like (MYSELF), not Jeff.

My purpose was to show that we who make our/your detectors do not need to log hours to know or understand them, and that is not my opinion it (I) and they are the truth. And my reference about various soils was not my only point, it and the others were merely generalities. My main point was that {{in Oregon, not somewhere else}} Jeff will have much greater problems to deal with than in most other soils here, there, and nearly everywhere, and even if I tossed out California, all of Asia, Labrador, and Russia. Currently I have not seen even one metal detector being used in Oregon that was made in Eastern Europe, only two Minelabs, and only two Garretts, one each of the latter two being mine. Those simply do not work well here and wind up in local pawn shops here and there, and cheap.

My quote:

"Jeff, only "newbies' keep track of their "hours." We who design and/or build them don't need to, we already know how they are made and what to expect from them." notice too, that I did not say (ALL) newbies either, right?

Notice that I referred to {{we the scientists and engineers}}, AKA "We who design and/or build them", and I am one of them, and that is not an opinion, it is a fact. I meant what I said, because it is true..not an opinion.

Jeff did not say that he was or wasn't a "newbie" either, so how could I be addressing him since I wouldn't know if he was new at it or not? Please try to understand that I am always VERY explicit when I write here. If I'm not, all kinds of people come out of the woodwork and put on the gloves. Again, I told the truth, tried to help someone understand the how and why (we who make them) don't log hours of use on them, that's all, and I took his question VERY seriously. Sorry you misunderstood my statement, and I hope you do now..

You may be interested in this: http://www.mapsofworld.com/canada/thematic-maps/canada-soil-map.html

 

[Newfiehunter]

Lucky Larry....You don't need to show me a map of my own country or the area where I reside....I know where the Appalachian Mountain range is This map does not represent true soil conditions in my area since soil contrast differently .

So, the question is...Have you or have you not ever tested a Makro Racer? A simple YES or NO will suffice...Be honest...If yes, some can take your advice not to purchase it because it is a toy as you put it...If you haven't, then how can you call the Racer, a "toy"....Many detectors have gliches when first introduced....Why avoid the question?.. Just because you have designed the electronics for a various brand/detector mean you know the circuitry of another...Others like the Racer and that is their choice.....I am no designer by any means and maybe the circuity of all detectors are similar...If I was 100% convinced that the Racer was a good machine, I would have one by now but like you said we have to be careful and that I do agree with..If you avoid the question, and refuse to answer it, then why make a comment on a detector you know nothing about...

 

[LuckyLarry]

The answer to the question is simple, I don't log hours into using (any) metal detector.

Newfie, I posted the map because I thought you might find it interesting, I did.

Have fun all..

 

[sycotoad]

Thanks for the kind words Loco, Mostly I come on here to help people get what they need instead of them only hearing the hype..

thanks for that man - I reckon the industry would be lost without you

So have you used a Makro Racer?

 

[Prius]

I am following this thread to see if Larry will answer. I have been reading about the Racer and considering it.

 

[basstrackerman]

the racer is a great detector. amazing in iron and works great anywhere.. the company stands behind you like no other.. the tones are best ive heard on any machine. one of the few detectors i enjoy hunting with or without headphones.. and best of all it finds good metals surrounded by bad metals all the time.