Mensa

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

Did you want me to put it in a sock and "brew" it for you?

Beth

 

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[diggemall]

As a sidebar to the question of intelligence, does the increase of knowledge diminish the belief in God? Love?

I've heard that man is either smart or emotional. Never both.
"Ruled by the brain or the heart."
I think that such a position is a false universal instantiation, reduced to ad absurdum.

What do you think? (Try not to get into squabbles concerning Religion, please.)

Best,
Scott

Now HERE's a post I can sink my teeth into !

PURE garbage, Scott ! And to tie it in with Beth's post re depression rates and the like amongst "intelligent" folks, I think conflicts between the heart and logic may well be what drives some folks into a downward spiral.

Diggem'

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Diggemall,

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if there have been any kind of studies in that vein?

It could certainly explain conflicts in decision making, that's for sure.

Beth

 

[CaptainRobin]

Personal observatation... and I KNOW I come across as a redneck... read/look up what a "Redneck" was... the rebellious ones wore red bandannas around their neck to identify themselves. The government gunned them down. It was a protest/rebellion here in the USofA last century. I do, however, have a couple of university degrees, and have the IQ level to join. They're deviants, have HUGE ego isuses, and particapate in devient sexual practices. And yea, I don't spell worth a flip. Didn't learn how in second grade. 'Nuff said.
Robin

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo Capt: you posted --> and particapate in devient sexual practices
***************

mmmm, perhaps I should reconsider, can you tell me more ? For pure knowledge of course.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[CaptainRobin]

I'll PM you when I have a lil' time... planting crops at the moment. Not something to discuss on a public forum.
Robin... OUT

 

[packerbacker]

You know very well what he's talking about Don..............remember the mule? Huh....remember??

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Packer sheesh blushing, ain't nothin sacred anymore?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Bum Luck]

Well, Bumluck,

I think you are "assuming" a lot there.

Since I was talking about my own private family - I'm pretty sure I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

It was not a cut to Mensa - or any other organization. It was a simple statement of fact that, quite often, we press our children to be all they can be - but, sometimes, to the detriment of their psyche. Children will always need to be children, to grow up a healthy, well rounded adult.

It is a well-know fact that, as the level of intelligence goes up, so does the suicide rate. (including attempts by my nephew). Also, manic depression is more prevalent in higher IQ. Highly skilled physicians, researchers, etc., have higher depression rates , suicide rates and other
mental issues. A high percentage of autisic children have higher than normal IQ's. This does not indicate a happy person, imo. Though I am absolutely certain that there are well adjusted happy, people of high intelligence.

Some experts attribute this to less cultivation of social interaction during childhood - because parents go out of their way (as do teachers and others) to develop their child's potential. (certainly not a bad thing, but, there are just so many hours in a day). Some attribute it to the way ultra intelligent folks are treated by peers and others - bullied, ridiculed or other things like that.

That said - you also might note that my very first sentence was that joining Mensa is a personal decision, and you can make of what you will, and take from it, what you will.

However, you sound like you think that Mensa is the only place to get intelligent conversation. Many, many high IQ people are not in Mensa.

There is no "moral" to my story - its just a fact in my family life. Not to "avoid" being smart - just to make sure that children have as full a life as possible - it makes happier adults.

And, you are right - you are who you are - but, part of life is living and learning, and, you sound, to me, like you think a smart person can be happy unless they are 'recognized' by some organization, and cannot talk to 'normal' folks. Again, that does not sound like a happy person to me. You said yourself, quote: Being 'smart' is not easy. By definition, it's different. It is often lonely and depressing. Imagine being beaten for being different, or for not having 'common sense'

How absolutely fulfilling. And, in case you didn't get what I was saying, still - there is a difference between high IQ and common sense.

Beth

I think you need to reread both your and my posts.

and thanks in advance for your understanding.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Bumluck,

I took your advice. Maybe I am still reading it wrong, or maybe - and this is more likely - I haven't explained myself well enough. (I do not have a flair for good explanations of my thought process).

So,

I'm thinking we just agree to have our opinions, whatever they are, and not turn it into an issue of any kind.

Beth

 

[diggemall]

Diggemall,

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if there have been any kind of studies in that vein?

It could certainly explain conflicts in decision making, that's for sure.

Beth

Hey Beth

To draw my point out further - I don't think there is ANY relationship between personality types and intellectual capacity. The have been plenty of exceedingly brilliant psychopaths throughout history, and I could probably find contemporary examples of high intellect individuals who represent both self-less and self-ish personalities. My suspicion (based largely on personal experience) is that "thinkers" tend to see every problem as one that can be solved, and usually (at least in their own minds) find a way to solve every one that they are faced with. If its important enough to them they may actually act on it, or even make it their "crusade". Otherwise, just knowing they have the solution is enough. When stuck with one that they cannot solve, it can become almost an obsession. In my case, its the general state of human kind that gnaws at me: I see the majority of the immediate problems we face as a nation (and globally for that matter) as being rooted in greed and have a difficult time comprehending how, after all these millennia, we, as a race, haven't come to realize a better state for ourselves. The rational side understands it explicitly, but the caring emotional side can't accept the rational as being sufficient..............

Does that make sense ?

(BTW - didn't mean to hijack or derail your thread Scott)

Diggem'

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Diggemall,

I have to say, I understand your point perfectly - and it makes perfect sense to me, as I have seen this.

I did a thesis in college (years ago, so they were on that vein back then), where they had done a study (I think it was a 10 year study, but I cannot swear for sure), and some of the most horrendous criminals had some high IQ's. (Jeffry Dahmer had an IQ of 140-150), Al Capone had an IQ of 200, and the Unibomber had an IQ of 170 at age 10.

On the other hand, like you said, some are just content to solve issues in their heads and just go on. Like "normal" folks, they run the gamut.

I do think your ideas have some real insight.

Beth

 

[piegrande]

In my five years as an officer of Mensa, I did not find one personality type at all. Members were all over the place, for occupations; for personality types; almost any visible parameter.

I will say the academics, such as Ph.D.'s were more likely to be jerks, at least in our local area. Nor can I say that will be the case in other areas. It may have to do with a very large university in our local area.

So, IMO, those who have such negative views of Mensa members may, as the one person here, be going by a handful of members they personally know. All I can say for sure is most members I knew were pleasant people with good lives, though we certainly had some nutcases and jerks as well.

Of course, another factor just came to me. In all modesty, I can truthfully say the newsletter I mailed each month was specifically designed to bring out the socially typical members, and prevented the nutcases from driving them away. I must wonder if it is possible that another local area with a different newsletter policy might discourage well-balanced (that is, the majority) members from participating in person.

We, in a small rural area with around 150 members maximum, actually had more meetings a month than some of the largest cities.

I catered shamelessly to mainstream people with houses who could and would hold meetings in their homes. Not to the nutcases who teleported to other planets. So, we mostly got mainstream people. When a college student was editor, they mostly got what my generation called space cadets. If your local had that problem, you would have no clue what the average member is like, only those who came out to meetings, usually a very small percentage of membership.

 

[piegrande]

Let me add here that the meaning and value of intelligence is a very hot topic in Mensa, and the criticisms among members when I was an officer was at times more negative than the negatives here.

The only widely accepted opinion on intelligence of Mensa members is: it is a high score on a standardized test, period.

In my own case, being unsuccessful in the usual sense of success, as are most Mensa members, (Asimov was a member, so some were successful, but the average person of Mensa level i.q. in the world is a manual laborer) the only major personal benefit I find in a high intelligence is, I am my own best friend. I actually enjoy at times "watching" my own mind plunge through things that interest me. I feel at times that my mind has, ahem, a mind of its own, and I have at times been amazed at what comes out of it. That may make no sense to anyone but me, sorry.

Well, I can also add that I have been able to have some very intelligent friends, and I enjoy their company very much. If I were low i.q. that would not happen. Perhaps that comment may offend some, but it's the truth.

Did I say it was very common for new members to belong only one or two years, but they would question themselves, and in many cases go back to school or start businesses, all because of questioning what intelligence meant.

 

[piegrande]

An example of intelligent friends is the time I had a discussion with two extremely intelligent friends here in a Third World village in rural Mexico. One was taken out of school after primary school because her father said women do not need education.

The other one dropped out after secondary, because she wanted to work with her father, and was bored with school.

We had a lengthy discussion over several days over which of the Bronte sisters' novels we preferred. The secondary graduate and I preferred Jane Eyre by Charlotte, the other woman preferred Wuthering Heights by Emily. That may seem like a strange debate, but I can tell you I was delighted. And, I suspect both are Mensa level intelligence, but we will never know, because of what Mensa means in Spanish.

 

[AU24K]

AU,

Whether or not you join is a personal decision. From my experience, I have two family members who were part of Mensa. It is an organization that you can make of what you will, and take from, what you will.

Personally, my experience has been that IQ is much less important than common sense. I have seen many of high IQ, not be able to get around in this world.

I can also, honestly say, that, of the folks I have met that have extremely high IQ's, that, quite often, they are actually not as happy nor as well-adjusted, as some others. My nephew, 43 now, been in Mensa forever, graduated high school at 13, finished college with 2 degrees by the time he was 18, has the social awkwardness of a 12 year old boy. But, 5 will get you 10 that, if you play video games - his hand has been in the works.
(he is a consultant for several of the major computer game companies).

But, as for getting along in the world, no friends, no relationships, no hobbies, nothing. He finds it very difficult to carry on a normal conversation.
And, he is not alone.

Sometimes, we push people too far with their intelligence. I firmly believe that, pushing his schooling beyond his physical years, left a hole in his growing up, the kind most folks get by interacting with people (kids) their own age.

So, its not a case of your smarts, as much as it is what you do with your life. (just my opinion).

Beth

My Friend, Mrs. O,
I see what message you have. Thank You for clarification.
I have, at this time, decided to forego an association with Mensa.
It is not the result of personal consideration of eligibility, but rather a matter of personal priorities.

Perhaps the World will continue to turn...LOL

Always,
My Best,
Scott

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening AU. Remember, among academics, having a Mensa membership can sometime achieve wonders in your resume' - hint.

Don jose de La Mancha

 

[piegrande]

I may have missed it, this hostile attitude towards Mensa is same-o; same-o, leading to great amounts of ennui. But, I don't remember anyone saying one could encounter intelligent conversation only in Mensa. If I said anything like that, I certainly owe a major apology.

I worked with a large group of brilliant electronic technicians for quite a few years. Coffee break and lunch with those men and a very few women, (Yes, Virginia, the women were also brilliant for the most part) was pretty much like a Mensa meeting. Talking about almost anything but the latest sport trivia. Very interesting conversations.

The problem is, many people do not work with extremely brilliant people. It was established at the time I was with Mensa, that the most profitable membership would be a woman working at a secretarial type of job. We had several of them in exactly that category. The next most profitable membership might well be a manual laborer.

My best friend here in Mexico is an intellectual M.D., and his wife who is equally intellectual, (but don't tell him.) I asked them once why they would want me as a friend when they had all those educated doctors to socialize with. They laughed and laughed. They said, they really aren't educated at all. They are no more than good medical technicians, meaning they only thought about medical issues 24/7. No stimulating conversation. No discussion of philosophy; history; literature; etc. So much for my prejudices about doctors.

For the wife, it is especially bad, because she has absolutely no friends in this village, except me. Women here just don't talk about intellectual type topics. Babies; cooking; scrubbing.

The Doctor and his wife would be delighted with a Mensa meeting!

It is a normal thing in our culture to disrespect intelligence. Now, if the Mensa members could make 9 out of 10 field goals, they would be heroes, no matter how stupid they were, nor what degree of sexual predators they were.

In fact, this very topic is common at Mensa meetings. People do not even really know why they joined, so they try to talk about it for understanding. Which is why so many do new things, then drop their membership.

 

[AU24K]

I have wondered about this thread for awhile and fondly recall responses of information and opinions.

What are the outward signs of a Mensa member? A character on "The Big Bang Theory?"

I'm more like a loveable Leonard.....

I'm thinking of looking into membership.....

Best,

Scott

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have wondered about this thread for awhile and fondly recall responses of information and opinions.

What are the outward signs of a Mensa member? A character on "The Big Bang Theory?"

I'm more like a loveable Leonard.....

I'm thinking of looking into membership.....

Best,

Scott

Leonard would be "the way to go" (tho, SOCIALLY AWKWARD)... Sheldon is NOT "Socially Adept" to the "general society"; IF... you find a Penny; GOOD LUCK!