Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Interested Party in UK]

That's quite alright, Shortfinger.

With regards to the Trio and Amy, whilst we're merely discussing treasure, what are the odds that the true professionals are sitting, checking, mulling, chuckling over some long-forgotten hoard they've come across....?!?

If only...



IPUK

 

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[tintin_treasure]

IPUK,,,,great yarn as usual! Today I read it on a longer train ride to the suburbs during sunset ....quite captivating.
As you suggested the two stories resemble ...or they could be two versions of what actually happened...there is no smoke without fire hence we can safely take that there was one chap by the name Conolly that was in the woods of SA and who came across a lost emerald mine...the details through time get mixed up and different versions of one true story may emerge of what actually happened to his discovery etc...
The other thing I noticed from the second story is that the "desperados" of that era were resourceful to travel different countries across the globe to try different things...but in today's world once someone becomes a desperado he can not even afford to buy a metro ticket to move across his own city..

As to the Trio and Amy...who knows they may be cooking something to strike somewhere ...you see we only hear about treasure finds in the news not the people who are behind the scenes....

Thanks again!
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK,,,,great yarn as usual! Today I read it on a longer train ride to the suburbs during sunset ....quite captivating.
As you suggested the two stories resemble ...or they could be two versions of what actually happened...there is no smoke without fire hence we can safely take that there was one chap by the name Conolly that was in the woods of SA and who came across a lost emerald mine...the details through time get mixed up and different versions of one true story may emerge of what actually happened to his discovery etc...
The other thing I noticed from the second story is that the "desperados" of that era were resourceful to travel different countries across the globe to try different things...but in today's world once someone becomes a desperado he can not even afford to buy a metro ticket to move across his own city..

As to the Trio and Amy...who knows they may be cooking something to strike somewhere ...you see we only hear about treasure finds in the news not the people who are behind the scenes....

Thanks again!
TT

Hey TT, as always, you're most welcome homey.

Glad that it helped to pass the journey on your way back home.

Very true as to what you say; "those" days had a fair amount of folks willing to take a gamble and try their "luck" and there was much more opportunity I suppose as well. These days, there is plenty of rules, regulations, guidelines, procedures, protocols etc., that must be adhered to. Some are are beneficial to all stakeholders, some are there solely to make treasure-'researching' a lot more difficult.

I would hazard a guess that there is most definitely some real story behind both tales. I have come across situations and scenarios where gold and diamond buyers from The Netherlands, India, South Africa and Israel, have been taking literal suitcases of hard cash into South American jungles and trading their currency for raw minerals and gems...

It is one of those situations where only so much research can be done via the internet - you need boots on the ground to look further into it. That takes vast resources, time and effort.

Not for "one-man bands" I'm afraid...

Oh well, we can but dream!

IPUK

 

[South Sea mariner]

Some times you can be part of some thing and not really know all the details.

The following story is true.....

My job was basically as pilot for one of the salvage vessels as I had sailed the horn many times. But that was my role nothing more nothing less.

The some shipwreck experts here denounced the story as a hoax or scam? Yet some times a good story slips by hardly unnoticed. Perhaps Kim Kardashian broke a high heel and the world was more interested in that? The following story barely got a mention in world press.

Perhaps the media is just sick of just another treasure story? Of course the follow excerpt of a newspaper story below tells part of the story asking interesting questions.

A vessel which sank carrying $18m (£11m) in gold and silver ingots has been found in the Magellan Straits off the coast of Argentina. The cargo belonged to Argentine mining companies Cerro Vanguardia and Minera Triton and was on its way from mines in southern Argentina to Europe. The boat sank in heavy seas in mysterious circumstances in January.

Although the vessel has been found, it is unclear if the nine and a half tons of cargo remain on board.The Chilean fishing boat, the Polar Mist, set sail from Santa Cruz in southern Argentina for the port of Punta Arenas in Chile. The bullion was heading first to Santiago in Chile, and then on to Switzerland for sale.

But a day after setting sail, the crew abandoned ship in a heavy storm. Gold on board? The ship was found 24 hours later by a Chilean tug which tried - and failed - to bring it into port. It went down in deep waters 40km (25 miles) off the coast.

Now in an operation to find the gold, a specialist boat carrying sonar equipment sailing under the orders of the Argentine mining companies and the international insurer Lloyds has found the wreck.But the million-dollar question is, will they find gold on board?

Many questions have been asked about why a fishing boat was used to transport bullion and about the circumstances under which the boat was abandoned.Because of high winds, a new attempt to investigate the wreck further is expected only when the heavy weather subsides. Argentina has become an important gold producer. In the last decade, former President Nestor Kirschner and the present one, his wife, Cristina Fernandez have done much to attract foreign investment in this area. Five mines are now active, and two more are opening this year, most of them in their home province of Santa Cruz.

The principle salvage company I think from memory was Dutch who flew in personnel from all over the globe. One of the two salvage vessel came via Santiago Chile. I brought the majority of the dive teams down. Most was commercial oil rig divers that had salvage experience. However everything was on a need to know basis. I think most of all Lloyd's group was curious more than anything think being suspicious that they had been scammed insurance wise. So they authorized the recovery. They gave a set time to salvage the wreck. I must confess was doubtful they get good enough weather to work in Knowing the Horn.

At cape horn if you do not like the weather wait a minute so to speak as it can change very quickly. Yet they smashed it perfect weather in fact they had a week of the best weather I had ever seen in my life on the horn. Some days the crew was sun baking on deck. Incredible luck. All the way down coast of Chile I was telling the divers the weather can be horrendous and yet we had a perfect spell of good fortune. What a liar it made out of me,.

Where the polar mist sank there was other shipwrecks.

They found another ship nearby the polar mist shipwreck and managed to Identify the name. the name now escapes my memory. But one of divers said it was a ship from around 1900. this ship was a German ship carrying gold off another ship that ran aground on the Coast of Chile and the gold was transferred to this German ship which sank going around the Horn.

What was interesting it was mile away from the official shipwreck site. Yet they spelled the name out that was visible on the hull. But since their principle mandate was to recover the Gold and Silver from the polar mist only they did not explore the older shipwreck nearby.

So you see some times you just need some luck also on your side. If fact the fellers down there go more than they bargained for. but Alas the backers wanted us out of there after the salvage of what they came there for with no interest in the older shipwreck. The irony was they had more than enough time to salvage the shipwreck nearby that it was alleged an even bigger fortune in Gold Bullion on her. The Dutch Salvage company was on a strict time is money protocol.

I have not heard since of any other attempt to recover the bullion that was on this other ship?

My apologies the name of 1900 shipwreck escapes me present. They daily day to day running the operation of ship took most of my time down there. So I have forgotten many important details. I have done about 50-60 voyages since then. My brain has to count one the on at hand not the ones that have been done.

As far as I know the gold is still on her, most likely never to be recovered.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Here below is a picture of the vessel Polar mist hardly one would suspect carrying about 16-19 million worth of treasure?



And here is the Cargo manifest of the polar Mist.





Mal

 

[tintin_treasure]

Quite an amazing yarn Mal! You seem to be making and living an adventure.
Yes it seems foolish to leave the other one , at least a preliminary check would have been logical...But an actual salvage probably would not have been possible straight away as thier would be quesions of permit, authorization ,legal ownership of the sunken vessel etc... but nonetheless the salvage company can have claimed a finders priviliege and apply for salvaging while preparing for the other legal issues ...but if it was on international waters I don't think they need any permit to salvage though claimants of the gold would appear once the news is out..
TT

 

[Shortfinger]

Here below is a picture of the vessel Polar mist hardly one would suspect carrying about 16-19 million worth of treasure?

View attachment 1413009

And here is the Cargo manifest of the polar Mist.

View attachment 1413010

View attachment 1413011

Mal

Thanks, Mal. I knew you had a few more stories in you. We'll wait patiently for the next one.

JB

 

[South Sea mariner]

You might like the clips I found at the time there was ban of publishing anything about the operation during the operation. yet it now seems done and dusted the restriction by principle salvor has moved on.

Sorry no voice over explaining the process.

The first one actually shows the sinking of the Polar mist when they tried to take it in tow.



This one below shows more about the salvage operation done by Mommoet salvage.



That said it does show the infighting between the insurance company and the owner of the gold. Over the cost of recovering the gold. Some crew of some of salvage ships was duded with their wages ourselves we was lucky and got paid.

Mal

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Some times you can be part of some thing and not really know all the details.

The following story is true.....

My job was basically as pilot for one of the salvage vessels as I had sailed the horn many times. But that was my role nothing more nothing less.

The some shipwreck experts here denounced the story as a hoax or scam? Yet some times a good story slips by hardly unnoticed. Perhaps Kim Kardashian broke a high heel and the world was more interested in that? The following story barely got a mention in world press.

Perhaps the media is just sick of just another treasure story? Of course the follow excerpt of a newspaper story below tells part of the story asking interesting questions.

A vessel which sank carrying $18m (£11m) in gold and silver ingots has been found in the Magellan Straits off the coast of Argentina. The cargo belonged to Argentine mining companies Cerro Vanguardia and Minera Triton and was on its way from mines in southern Argentina to Europe. The boat sank in heavy seas in mysterious circumstances in January.

Although the vessel has been found, it is unclear if the nine and a half tons of cargo remain on board.The Chilean fishing boat, the Polar Mist, set sail from Santa Cruz in southern Argentina for the port of Punta Arenas in Chile. The bullion was heading first to Santiago in Chile, and then on to Switzerland for sale.

But a day after setting sail, the crew abandoned ship in a heavy storm. Gold on board? The ship was found 24 hours later by a Chilean tug which tried - and failed - to bring it into port. It went down in deep waters 40km (25 miles) off the coast.

Now in an operation to find the gold, a specialist boat carrying sonar equipment sailing under the orders of the Argentine mining companies and the international insurer Lloyds has found the wreck.But the million-dollar question is, will they find gold on board?

Many questions have been asked about why a fishing boat was used to transport bullion and about the circumstances under which the boat was abandoned.Because of high winds, a new attempt to investigate the wreck further is expected only when the heavy weather subsides. Argentina has become an important gold producer. In the last decade, former President Nestor Kirschner and the present one, his wife, Cristina Fernandez have done much to attract foreign investment in this area. Five mines are now active, and two more are opening this year, most of them in their home province of Santa Cruz.

The principle salvage company I think from memory was Dutch who flew in personnel from all over the globe. One of the two salvage vessel came via Santiago Chile. I brought the majority of the dive teams down. Most was commercial oil rig divers that had salvage experience. However everything was on a need to know basis. I think most of all Lloyd's group was curious more than anything think being suspicious that they had been scammed insurance wise. So they authorized the recovery. They gave a set time to salvage the wreck. I must confess was doubtful they get good enough weather to work in Knowing the Horn.

At cape horn if you do not like the weather wait a minute so to speak as it can change very quickly. Yet they smashed it perfect weather in fact they had a week of the best weather I had ever seen in my life on the horn. Some days the crew was sun baking on deck. Incredible luck. All the way down coast of Chile I was telling the divers the weather can be horrendous and yet we had a perfect spell of good fortune. What a liar it made out of me,.

Where the polar mist sank there was other shipwrecks.

They found another ship nearby the polar mist shipwreck and managed to Identify the name. the name now escapes my memory. But one of divers said it was a ship from around 1900. this ship was a German ship carrying gold off another ship that ran aground on the Coast of Chile and the gold was transferred to this German ship which sank going around the Horn.

What was interesting it was mile away from the official shipwreck site. Yet they spelled the name out that was visible on the hull. But since their principle mandate was to recover the Gold and Silver from the polar mist only they did not explore the older shipwreck nearby.

So you see some times you just need some luck also on your side. If fact the fellers down there go more than they bargained for. but Alas the backers wanted us out of there after the salvage of what they came there for with no interest in the older shipwreck. The irony was they had more than enough time to salvage the shipwreck nearby that it was alleged an even bigger fortune in Gold Bullion on her. The Dutch Salvage company was on a strict time is money protocol.

I have not heard since of any other attempt to recover the bullion that was on this other ship?

My apologies the name of 1900 shipwreck escapes me present. They daily day to day running the operation of ship took most of my time down there. So I have forgotten many important details. I have done about 50-60 voyages since then. My brain has to count one the on at hand not the ones that have been done.

As far as I know the gold is still on her, most likely never to be recovered.

Mal

Thank you for posting this interesting story, SSM.

It is very intriguing as to why any mining company/corporation would transport gold in such a haphazard fashion when there are much more efficient and suitable means available...

Switzerland is a landlocked country so once the bullion had reached a European port, it would need to entail another lengthy journey...

Maybe the German shipwreck that you came across with the alleged gold shipment, was a lot more difficult to salvage?
There is also the distinct possibility that the gold may not have existed or if it did, it was recovered previously?

I am not taking away anything that you've said - only trying to think what could have crossed the minds of the salvage crew.

It is fair to say I am a complete novice in the area of ocean-treasure stories and the recovery process and all the baggage which it carries, but this story is very interesting indeed!


IPUK

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hello IPUK

Most likely perhaps legal problems on ownership pf the shipwreck? But the crew was under pressure to do the Job and get out nothing else. As cost of recovery was expensive. I can only go on face value of what one of the divers confided in me on the bridge. Even during the recovery phase I never got to see the gold. I had my job to do and that was it.

However a few year later I found out a little more about the the other older vessel nearby. Not being a diver or salvage expert. I have more pressing things to remember and forgotten the name? It may be in my office some where at home?

Mal

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hey SSM,

Good to 'see' you back!

Please do continue...(if you can that is)

Seems as if there is much more to contemplate with this one; the clip you've kindly uploaded with shiny, goldy stuff, has certainly got my attention.



IPUK

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hey SSM,

Good to 'see' you back!

Please do continue...(if you can that is)

Seems as if there is much more to contemplate with this one; the clip you've kindly uploaded with shiny, goldy stuff, has certainly got my attention.



IPUK

my pleasure but my crew is calling me back to the grind stone, so no rest for me.

cheer Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Ah an office in my pocket how much has the world has changed. A memory stick has the answer.

All night as slept in my cabin I tossed and turned trying to remember the name..... then I remembered the memory stick.

The story centers around two vessels. The Sakkarah was in route from Valparaiso (Chile) to Hamburg with a cargo of gold and silver, ran aground N of Guamblin Island, Chile, no casualties.

The German SS Isis came to the rescue of the stranded Sakkarah and Isis continued the journey with the gold transferred from the Sakkarah to the Isis. The Isis was on the way back in the Strait of Magellan and sank in fact near where the Polar Mist went down 107 years later. Yet there is confusing on her exact location as admiralty charts put the vessel many miles away. And confusion over the name of vessel. both just outside the eastern mouth of the strait of Magellan.

An 1902 paper claimed the Isis had been carrying treasure when it was lost.Wrecked in the Strait of Magellan with a cargo of gold and silver worth 150,000 books recovered from the SS Sakkara lost the previous month in the region. The gold cargo when the ship was lost worth 150 thousand British Pounds. In 1902 gold values gold was worth 3.13 British Pounds per ounce. Today's value give or take in today's fluctuating gold price could be worth more than 62 million dollars.

Here is a picture of the ships below.

To confuse things the ship Isis must of been very unlucky with that name as it was its first voyage with that name. The ship had changed hands and was called Isis, but before that voyage she was called kosmos. Most pictures of her are by the name of Kosmos.



The other ship below is Sakkarah sailing through the straits of Magellan. Its ironic had another name also called "Se Mohr Sa"




Perhaps this is why they say its superstitious and its unlucky to change a ships name?

Mal

 

[tintin_treasure]

Ah an office in my pocket how much has the world has changed. A memory stick has the answer.

All night as slept in my cabin I tossed and turned trying to remember the name..... then I remembered the memory stick.

The story centers around two vessels. The Sakkarah was in route from Valparaiso (Chile) to Hamburg with a cargo of gold and silver, ran aground N of Guamblin Island, Chile, no casualties.

The German SS Isis came to the rescue of the stranded Sakkarah and Isis continued the journey with the gold transferred from the Sakkarah to the Isis. The Isis was on the way back in the Strait of Magellan and sank in fact near where the Polar Mist went down 107 years later. Yet there is confusing on her exact location as admiralty charts put the vessel many miles away. And confusion over the name of vessel. both just outside the eastern mouth of the strait of Magellan.

An 1902 paper claimed the Isis had been carrying treasure when it was lost.Wrecked in the Strait of Magellan with a cargo of gold and silver worth 150,000 books recovered from the SS Sakkara lost the previous month in the region. The gold cargo when the ship was lost worth 150 thousand British Pounds. In 1902 gold values gold was worth 3.13 British Pounds per ounce. Today's value give or take in today's fluctuating gold price could be worth more than 62 million dollars.

Here is a picture of the ships below.

To confuse things the ship Isis must of been very unlucky with that name as it was its first voyage with that name. The ship had changed hands and was called Isis, but before that voyage she was called kosmos. Most pictures of her are by the name of Kosmos.

View attachment 1413391

The other ship below is Sakkarah sailing through the straits of Magellan. Its ironic had another name also called "Se Mohr Sa"

View attachment 1413393


Perhaps this is why they say its superstitious and its unlucky to change a ships name?

Mal

Thanks Mal....quite a Story! It is interesting.Have you considered to approach (with this knowledge ) other salvage companies...I mean if not for a partnership in the venture, at least trading the "exact location information" for a tidy sum...i call it "soft treasure hunting"...
In any case the beatiful antique prints of the ships you showed us are themselves great...did u get them from old newspapers or are they lithograph prints?If litho prints, they themselves with the treasure story attached to them might have antique value...this is based on my recent whim on antique prints..
TT

 

[South Sea mariner]

Thanks Mal....quite a Story! It is interesting.Have you considered to approach (with this knowledge ) other salvage companies...I mean if not for a partnership in the venture, at least trading the "exact location information" for a tidy sum...i call it "soft treasure hunting"...
In any case the beatiful antique prints of the ships you showed us are themselves great...did u get them from old newspapers or are they lithograph prints?If litho prints, they themselves with the treasure story attached to them might have antique value...this is based on my recent whim on antique prints..
TT

Hello TT

Your on to me :-) I collect historic post card prints of old ships. I come from a long line of sea captains. My father started collecting old 1930's post cards in the early 1950s. Mainly ships from the later half of 19th century early 20th century. I have about 450. My prize postcard I have is from the Lusitania which was sunk by German Uboat in WW1, I even managed to hunt down a Titanic post card several years ago. Both shown below. They have pride of place in my office in my families shipping company.







The last one was Chilean navel training ship my grand father served on 1907. General Bocodona combination of steam and sailing ship. If it was not for these post cards many did not have many photographs of these historic ships, so in effect many of these post cards are important to preserve as they illustrate many ships that otherwise would be forgotten..

In my time in the family business we have had 8 ships in 30 odd years. All proverbial rust buckets run to the end of their lives either on sold or scraped all my friend had a story. our present ships are fairly new one 17 year old and the other 11 years old we may few more years out of them By about 20 years of hard work you have change to flog them off to the African rust bucket fleet. By 25-30 they are falling apart as you lose the ongoing war on rust. The sea my friend is unforgiving and corrosive.

Mal

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT

Your on to me :-) I collect historic post card prints of old ships. I come from a long line of sea captains. My father started collecting old 1930's post cards in the early 1950s. Mainly ships from the later half of 19th century early 20th century. I have about 450. My prize postcard I have is from the Lusitania sank by German Uboat in WW1, I even managed to hunt down a Titanic post card.

View attachment 1414196

Mal

That is good...I am sure the German boat print with the sunken treasure story attached to it could increase the value of your print and probably even draw some potentially good attention to the treasure story...
TT

 

[South Sea mariner]

TT

No doubt its not the monetary value of collecting postcards for me.

As for the treasure....Well I am not a treasure hunter my friend. And its not easy to get people interested to invest money on such a venture. Especially without legal frame work in place. The Polar Mist operation cost 4 million dollars and that was just one week in perfect weather. Such a project with the Isis would cost at least 4 million if not more. Not guarantee getting again such good weather down in which you might have to wait weeks for good weather. That and uncertain legal status....things are not so easy.

When you go through all the crap to finally become a sea captain and you take command of your first ship, you change. A Ship becomes your baby or little empire, it grows on you like having a pet dog. The ship becomes and old friend you know all its creaks and groans. Yet the time comes when she becomes unfit to sail the seas. You have memories of her and the crews that once inhabited her with a tinge of sadness, as many of them have passed on. But most of all you get this strange communion when once you have sailed her as captain and she a queen, that cuts through the ocean like a knife. These post cards for me reminders of once what was.

Even the ships I never sailed on I can appreciate beauty they remind me of my queens. As my wife laughs the other women in my life.,

No doubt there is few ex Navy or merchant salt's here where I am coming from will understand.

And of course once again my Queen calls me again as I am taking on a cargo of raw sugar tomorrow. Paperwork for me alas.

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

MAL, You get the same feeling for certain aircraft also. Front row third from the left., the runt.. Checking out on a DC/3

.`

 

[tintin_treasure]

Is it true then that captains stick to a sinking boat or ship to the end rather abandon it?I thought it was only the stuff of Hollywood and titanic story.
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Really interesting stuff chaps.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if any government's eavesdropping agency was listening in and heard the words "ISIS", "German", "sunk", "millions of dollars", "mission", "top secret"....

Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick...




IPUK