Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Old Bookaroo]

I've been trying to stir the embers of the fire with some historical newspaper articles about Tayopa. So far, I haven't been to get much of a flame.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

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[Shortfinger]

I've been trying to stir the embers of the fire with some historical newspaper articles about Tayopa. So far, I haven't been to get much of a flame.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

I've been reading them. Very interesting. Interestingly enough, almost all, if not all, of the old newspaper reports report a gold mine, whereas Tayopa was primarily silver, was it not? Maybe this because gold is known to create a much larger desire to obtain it than silver? Or, are these tales actually about some other mine(s), do you think?

JB

P.S. Maybe this will stir the fire a little more.

 

[markmar]

From what I have understood reading the details about the cache provenance and looking at the maps , at the Real de Tayopa's place there are 24 mines , 19 silver and 5 gold . The gold mines are separately from the " U " shape , and across the side arroyo to the east . Also gold placer was at the bottom of this arroyo , in a muddy region marked in the maps as " Paramo Placeres de Oro" .

 

[Shortfinger]

From what I have understood reading the details about the cache provenance and looking at the maps , at the Real de Tayopa's place there are 24 mines , 19 silver and 5 gold . The gold mines are separately from the " U " shape , and across the side arroyo to the east . Also gold placer was at the bottom of this arroyo , in a muddy region marked in the maps as " Paramo Placeres de Oro" .

Yes, Marius, I believe you are correct, there is gold in the vicinity. And don't forget about "El Naranjal", which I (and our illustrious Don Jose) firmly believe is nearby as well. However, the great majority of the Tayopa complex is sliver, yet it is rarely mentioned in the newspaper articles.

JB

P.S. There is a statement here in this post that will undoubtedly stir some action from someone.......

 

[audigger53]

The story I got from my brother was that Toyopa was found by a group af about 12-13 Mexicans. They did an assey on the slag pile and found no silver. They started drinking and later one of them went into the mine and knocked off some from the face at the end of the shaft. When they asseyed it, it was heavy in Silver with Lead. The Lead made it self fluxing so there was almost no Silver in the slag plies. They now had a real happy party and went back home to make a real mining company, but that was 1910 and none survived the Revelution. So it was lost again until Jose came along.

 

[Oroblanco]

Yes, Marius, I believe you are correct, there is gold in the vicinity. And don't forget about "El Naranjal", which I (and our illustrious Don Jose) firmly believe is nearby as well. However, the great majority of the Tayopa complex is sliver, yet it is rarely mentioned in the newspaper articles.

JB

P.S. There is a statement here in this post that will undoubtedly stir some action from someone.......

If you are expecting an argument, hope you don't mind the disappointment. You are certainly entitled to your own opinions. I expect the same courtesy in kind.

Simon can you account for your own whereabouts during the 'Massacre of Glencoe' - 1692? There is no statute of limitations on capital offenses you know!

Old Bookaroo wrote

I've been trying to stir the embers of the fire with some historical newspaper articles about Tayopa. So far, I haven't been to get much of a flame.

My apologies for being absent from class, have been occupied with other tasks lately. I do appreciate your sharing the old articles, and don't hold them in the low regard that many people seem to as source materials. While they may well be simply re-telling a saloon tale, I am convinced that these tales did not grow out of the air but are based on real events, places and people. Silver or gold is a detail that gets fuzzy in the retelling especially when translated from the old Spanish to modern Anglos, because of the low regard modern folks have for silver, and a story of a "rich mine" is all too often assumed by a modern treasure author to mean a "rich gold mine" when it might have been just a rich silver mine in the first place. With Tayopa, Tyopa, Teopa, Teopari, etc it is even worse because of the combination of both silver mines AND gold mines including lode gold AND placer (El Paramo) so our previous writers might be forgiven for getting this detail fudged up a bit in their compositions.

Side thing here - and to mi compadre Don Jose' especially but to everyone as well, have you ever seen any 'ghost lights' at Tayopa? And to everyone else, have you ever seen the so-called 'ghost lights' in your areas where you treasure hunt? Thank you in advance, and really just curious, this reminds me I think I will post a new thread in the Dutchman forum about this as well.

Please do continue amigos and amigas, keep those stories coming!

 

[Simon1]

Why yes Oroblanco I can account for my whereabouts. I believe that was during my 3rd re-incarnation period. At which time I was a judge at the Salem witch trials, ( that did not go as planned ), neither did my previous other two re-incarnations. The first one, I was the navigator for a gentleman named Noah. I was fired when I ran aground on a mountain top no less. My second re-incarnation I was living in Alexandria and my flashlight batteries went dead. Naturally, I grabbed my book of matches and the next thing I knew the Library of Alexandria caught fire.
I recall, ( vaguely ), a story of a rich man named Zacatercas had a street paved with silver from his house to the church in honor of his daughter getting married. That must have been a beautiful sight. I tend to agree, when someone says a "rich" mine, first thought goes to gold.
Glad you surfaced Oroblanco, was starting to wonder about you.

 

[audigger53]

About "Rich Mines". A lot of people forget that the Jesuits used Indian labor to work their "Rich Mines". Almost no cost to them as they just supplied food and the "Glory of God", to pay the Indians. So a low grade deposit could be made profitable. Even so how rich would a ine have to be? One mule train a year to the main Jesuit Mission (then) outside Mexico City to ship back to Spain on Jesuit ships, would that be a "Rich Mine"? Just some thoughts of miine.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

of course they did have a few that were fabulous

 

[audigger53]

Yes they did. LOL The Guadalupe (Silver) for one. West of Arivaca, to my best guess. Tried to tell Capt.Bill how to find it, but I think he passed away on me.

 

[Simon1]

of course they did have a few that were fabulous

===========
Speaking of fabulous, good to see the one and only fabulous Sir Don Jose posting !
How are you doing ?

 

[Oroblanco]

About "Rich Mines". A lot of people forget that the Jesuits used Indian labor to work their "Rich Mines". Almost no cost to them as they just supplied food and the "Glory of God", to pay the Indians. So a low grade deposit could be made profitable. Even so how rich would a ine have to be? One mule train a year to the main Jesuit Mission (then) outside Mexico City to ship back to Spain on Jesuit ships, would that be a "Rich Mine"? Just some thoughts of miine.

A good point - I was rather surprised when I found that at least some of the gold mines which had been worked by the Jesuit padres in Baja California, when turned over to Spaniards were found to be too poor to work at a profit! From what I could learn, these were three gold mines in number, the Spanish tried to work them for several years but the gold produced would not cover their own costs to mine it and all were abandoned. As far as I know, no one has ever bothered with them since. They could have been the source of the several hundred ounces of gold found in one of the Baja Jesuit missions, but I rather doubt that as the gold found was placer, and the three mines were all lode mines. The free (for cost of food) labor of the Indios could make even a poor mine pay.

Amen it is good to see you posting Don Jose de la Mancha! I hope you are improving daily too. Beth and I are hoping to make it to AZ this fall, would love to try to meet up with you again.

Simon - so it WAS you at Alexandria! I will quit blaming old Caesar now. By any chance did you happen to grab a few scrolls and volumina on your way out? I just would like to borrow them for a while, will be sure to return them in the next incarnation.

Another side thing here but Don Jose' what can you remember about the 'other' famous lost Real, Cienega? I may have the name wrong there, but it was a rather commonly used name that much I can remember, and it too was in the Sonora/Chihuahua border region so I could not even guess which state it would be in today. I never could find much info on this one, seems to date to the early 1700s so is later than Tayopa, but a somewhat similar history and loss. I have a few others to pick your brain about too, when you have the time. Thanks in advance,
Roy

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Good day Oro. Ghost lihts, no, but a mulltitude of ghosts, YES

 

[Real of Tayopa]

wwHAT HAN'T BEEN MENTIONED, IS THAT FOR MUCH OF THAT PERIOD HAT PERIOD IS THAT SILVER WAS ON PAR WITH gold, ie the same value.

 

[Shortfinger]

Side thing here - and to mi compadre Don Jose' especially but to everyone as well, have you ever seen any 'ghost lights' at Tayopa? And to everyone else, have you ever seen the so-called 'ghost lights' in your areas where you treasure hunt? Thank you in advance, and really just curious, this reminds me I think I will post a new thread in the Dutchman forum about this as well.

Please do continue amigos and amigas, keep those stories coming!

[/QUOTE]

Oro, no disrespect here. You are an accomplished treasure/lost mine hunter, and I definitely do respect your opinion. just trying to get some conversation going here. It looks like that has been done.

RE: Ghost lights: Well, I do have a story about “Ghost Lights”, but it doesn’t have an ending, and is pretty inconclusive, especially in regards to treasure. I moved into my current home about 4 years ago. It was my wont (and still is) to sit on the front patio with a glass of rum or bourbon, sipping and watching the sun fade from the hillside across the canyon from my house. There is a lone chimney standing across the way (about 1000 yards, give or take), from a house that was destroyed about 20 years ago in a brushfire. The house was old, according to one of my neighbors, who said that part of the house had dated to the 1880s. For the first year, there was nothing unusual to be seen on the hillside. Sometime during the second summer, around the end of July or the beginning of August, I noticed a faint glow coming from the hillside. After seeing the glow for 3 or 4 nights in a row, I set up a range system so that I could determine exactly where the glow was coming from. After checking for a couple of nights, from a couple of locations on my property, I decided that the glow was coming from the vicinity of the chimney, as near as I could tell directly in front of it. It was a cold white light, faint, but you could make it out even in full moonlight once you knew it was there. Of course, it was much easier to see during the dark of the moon. It never varied, and was not a reflection of fire light. I saw it every night I looked for it for over 2 months, and pointed it out to a couple of other people, so it was not a product of the rum (or bourbon, depending on how I felt that night). My son was able to see it, but he thought it was a reflection of some lights from across the lake. My wife never was able to see it.. I was able to disprove the reflected light theory because we had a power outage one night. There were no lights on across the lake (or anywhere else in the area, for that matter) to reflect onto the hillside. The glow was still there. The end of September that year, I took a 3 week trip. When I returned, the light had disappeared, and it hasn’t returned yet. The property is fenced and posted, so I haven’t been able to do any looking around at the site, but if I can ever get permission to look around, I will do so. So, what do you think? Ghost light? Treasure? Swamp gas? I don’t know, and probably never will.

JB

 

[Real of Tayopa]

with Gold and Silver at par, iit didn't really matter which you had.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Don Jose:

Seeing you post again is a rare beam of sunshine!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

with Gold and Silver at par, iit didn't really matter which you had.

Jose, thanks for posting that information. I have wondered if they had ever hit or crossed each other’s price line.

I have monitored the ratio on a Gold and silver site. Trying to figure out how to know when it is the best time to sell one, and buy the other.
Not that I have enough of either one to make a difference...

It always lifts our spirits to hear from our fearless leader!

#/;0{>~

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

On another subject. EaRtHqUakeS!
If anyone is thinking about entering a cave or old mine, I would recommend an online earthquake monitor app.

It might help you differentiate between, natural sound in your confines, and something more spiritual!!

These two screenshots are from the US, over the last thirty days, and are 2.5 and more magnitudes, some are as 5.6.

You can get a lot more information from the app than these show.


And the lower 48!


I live between the Oklahoma (half dozen or so , and the one directly on the New Madrid fault line.
There is a lot of pressure on both.
Occasionally I feel my bed move a little bit, and can look at the CooKu clock’s weights move around.
Nothing spectacular, but the app reports the quake in a few seconds,
And proves that I haven’t lost my mind.... yet!

However; neither it nor I can convince anyone that I have been in a cave several years ago, and heard one while inside a cave.

#/;0{>~

 

[Oroblanco]

Side thing here - and to mi compadre Don Jose' especially but to everyone as well, have you ever seen any 'ghost lights' at Tayopa? And to everyone else, have you ever seen the so-called 'ghost lights' in your areas where you treasure hunt? Thank you in advance, and really just curious, this reminds me I think I will post a new thread in the Dutchman forum about this as well.

Please do continue amigos and amigas, keep those stories coming!

Oro, no disrespect here. You are an accomplished treasure/lost mine hunter, and I definitely do respect your opinion. just trying to get some conversation going here. It looks like that has been done.

RE: Ghost lights: Well, I do have a story about “Ghost Lights”, but it doesn’t have an ending, and is pretty inconclusive, especially in regards to treasure. I moved into my current home about 4 years ago. It was my wont (and still is) to sit on the front patio with a glass of rum or bourbon, sipping and watching the sun fade from the hillside across the canyon from my house. There is a lone chimney standing across the way (about 1000 yards, give or take), from a house that was destroyed about 20 years ago in a brushfire. The house was old, according to one of my neighbors, who said that part of the house had dated to the 1880s. For the first year, there was nothing unusual to be seen on the hillside. Sometime during the second summer, around the end of July or the beginning of August, I noticed a faint glow coming from the hillside. After seeing the glow for 3 or 4 nights in a row, I set up a range system so that I could determine exactly where the glow was coming from. After checking for a couple of nights, from a couple of locations on my property, I decided that the glow was coming from the vicinity of the chimney, as near as I could tell directly in front of it. It was a cold white light, faint, but you could make it out even in full moonlight once you knew it was there. Of course, it was much easier to see during the dark of the moon. It never varied, and was not a reflection of fire light. I saw it every night I looked for it for over 2 months, and pointed it out to a couple of other people, so it was not a product of the rum (or bourbon, depending on how I felt that night). My son was able to see it, but he thought it was a reflection of some lights from across the lake. My wife never was able to see it.. I was able to disprove the reflected light theory because we had a power outage one night. There were no lights on across the lake (or anywhere else in the area, for that matter) to reflect onto the hillside. The glow was still there. The end of September that year, I took a 3 week trip. When I returned, the light had disappeared, and it hasn’t returned yet. The property is fenced and posted, so I haven’t been able to do any looking around at the site, but if I can ever get permission to look around, I will do so. So, what do you think? Ghost light? Treasure? Swamp gas? I don’t know, and probably never will.

JB

I sure don't know what that could be. If the glow is in the exact same spot every time, even when the power is out and yet it went out for some time. I don't think a reflection would stop reflecting, it would be a regular thing and dependent on the source of the light. I would suggest to maybe get to the property line before dark, and wait to see if it shows up. At least you could get a closer look, maybe take along field glasses too.

Please do continue amigos & amigas, keep 'em coming and that includes our fearless leader too!