Move boulders with gear that can be packed in.

[Tahoegold]

I have been thinking about what I will need to move boulders, or rocks with what I can carry in a pack. However, the pack also has other tools. Pans, (2) 2.5 gal. buckets, either a 24" Bazooka sniper or a Keene A51a fitted with Gold hog mats. A 6' sling. A small strap wratchet 900lb come along. 4 small metal pulleys. A 1" tiedown strap. 50' of 3/8" nylon braided rope. A Gad bar, a rock hammer, and assorted crevacing tools and a metal detector. Food and a gallon of water.
I am interested in Technique. I saw a technique where the strap was tightened around s boulder, then the come along went over the top to the far side. It pulled the boulder and rolled it. Of course, building a cobble ramp, digging under etc all can help. I saw a technique that uses a rope and a stick. Using a loop around a boulder to a tree. One uses the stick to "wind" the rope in the middle. Surpisingly, this method seemed to have the best torque ratio I've ever seen. I am asking for practical ways to use this equipment to leverage my equipment to move boulders in a stream. I also read the New 49rs piece on this. They recomended finding the gold line and making sure not to roll the boulder right into the gold. Well, I cant seem to find a thread on this here. Maybe there is one. Ok, so what can one do with this equipment? Thanks!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bonaro]

One always needs to be aware of cable tension snap rebound. The cable is deadly when and if it snaps loose. One can take that rebound snap whip action away by simply draping cloth things over the tensioned cable. blankets, jackets, anything of that nature works. Be safe!

Bejay

I upgraded my winch to synthetic cable. It is many times lighter and stronger than steel cable and it simply goes limp when you snap it. It also never develops a cable burr so its very safe.

The down side of synthetic cable is it's very susceptible to abrasion frays and you must use protective sleeves anywhere it may touch a rock. It is also very slippery so forget about tying a knot in it and if you really load it on a full spool, the cable will spread out on the winch spool. If you dont have a strong spool it will split apart.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bonaro]

Who knows this one? If I attach a line to 2 boulders, one big and the one I want to move, then I pull from the middle at a 90 degree like a "T", will this reduce the pulling force needed like a pulley reduction?

Yes, you will have tremendous leverage when you first pull but it decreases rapidly as the angle between the static line and the live line becomes more obtuse. You will only be able to move the rock slightly before you lose leverage due to the deflection of the static line. You will need another static line attached between the two rocks so you can hold the moving rock in place while you reset the first line for another pull. This method requires a long distance between the two rocks and ropes or cables that do not stretch.

 

[Tahoegold]

Thx Bonaro, that's what I needed. So, here's my thought on this. Use the braded line to attach 2 slings and pull with a winch. Place loose stones around the side of the rock that is lifting away from the ground so they fall in and keep the rock in place reset and do it again. The problem is tying the knot. I prefer permiment loops and using slip knots. I'll have to research how to tie synth rope. But, as a light weight cable replacement, and like you said, no burs, that would be great. All right, great ideas! Once I get the rock loose, maybe the winch can grab it the rest of the way. I'll have to test it to see what I can do! Thank you! I had to read that part again about the rope spreading and breaking the spool. That is interesting stuff. So light weight and strong. There's got to be a way I can incorporate it into the mix.

 

[Tahoegold]

Wow, check this out about synth rope and knots in general. It says even the best knot can only retain 39% of rope strength!
Broken Winch Line? Splice or Knot tie? | Factor 55

This is how it should be done. Excellent video on how to splice synthetic rope to make a loop.

 

[Bonaro]

Thx Bonaro, that's what I needed. So, here's my thought on this. Use the braded line to attach 2 slings and pull with a winch. Place loose stones around the side of the rock that is lifting away from the ground so they fall in and keep the rock in place reset and do it again. The problem is tying the knot. I prefer permiment loops and using slip knots. I'll have to research how to tie synth rope. But, as a light weight cable replacement, and like you said, no burs, that would be great. All right, great ideas! Once I get the rock loose, maybe the winch can grab it the rest of the way. I'll have to test it to see what I can do! Thank you! I had to read that part again about the rope spreading and breaking the spool. That is interesting stuff. So light weight and strong. There's got to be a way I can incorporate it into the mix.

Yeah, any plan that involves tying knots in synthetic cable will fail. It can be done but the knots are complex and not un-tyable. Have you ever used spider wire braided fishing string? Same stuff only smaller. This is the knot I use ...
The method you are considering will work but its a pain. You will need a couple hundred fee of rope. Cheaper to buy a come along

 

[Assembler]

Yeah, any plan that involves tying knots in synthetic cable will fail. It can be done but the knots are complex and not un-tyable. Have you ever used spider wire braided fishing string? Same stuff only smaller. This is the knot I use ...
The method you are considering will work but its a pain. You will need a couple hundred fee of rope. Cheaper to buy a come along

If you can buy a used come along and electric winch one can do a lot on a budget.

 

[63bkpkr]

Tahoegold, Wow that pack mule is small! Any idea of the capacity of the unit (1000 lbs, etc) also what is the diameter of the cable and how much cable is on it? The hooks might be flat steel plate and may start to bend at a lower load than good quality drop forged hooks. I like the shroud the cable goes through as it eliminates the delicate stamped parts of cheaper cable hoists (2000 lb Harbor Freight unit).

Boulder moving and rocks to support the boulder to be moved - good idea as long as the fill boulders fall in the right direction. They also need to be the correct size and the moved rock needs to be moved the correct amount to form the proper size of pocket or a lot of things need to work just right.

Yes, you want to be light for exploring to locate a spot and then bring in the heavy equipment. Typically boulders in a river are like Ice Bergs, the main portion of them is under water. Sturdy is good for light or heavy equipment. Should I be able to go out this year especially for two to three months I will start somewhat light (GGT Explorer, pans, sifter, detector & rest of gear) and if I locate something worth while I will bring in the heavy stuff............63bkpkr

 

[cliff162]

3 ton large come a long Wyeth-Scott comapany

The "More Power Puller" has been manufactured by The Wyeth-Scott Company since 1934. It has been the safest and most durable cable puller ever made. This heavy-duty industrial portable ratchet puller/hoist is not the type of light-weight puller found at most home centers. 3 Ton Ratchet Puller with 35' of 5/16" Amsteel Blue synthetic cable. $329 22 pounds Have one, it works great for moving boulders.

https://www.wyeth-scott.com

 

[Bonaro]

If you want the best manual winch, get a Griphoist

Personally I prefer to push a button

 

[63bkpkr]

Gentlemen {cliff162 & Bonaro}, now those are the best of the best in manual pulling/lifting tools! Thank your for passing along your inputs on these high quality Tools! I've not priced them ($329 Powerpull), I anticipate they are more costly than lesser tools but then "one gets what one Pays for"! For a long term manual operation I would not even hesitate to purchase either or both of these units.

Bonaro your electric winch is that like what one would find on the front of a CJ-5 Jeep or is it in between that and an ATV winch? Pushing a button for long term use would really be nice! Question, how much does your winch weigh and how far do you have to "man-handle" it from your vehicle? All of my work & dreaming is Way down a long steep trail.

Again thank you both for your inputs and of course Tahoegold, my hat is off to you for starting this post! ..............63bkpkr

 

[boogeyman]

Check out this come along the Deuer manufacturing, Pack Mule. It is real small, I have been trying to find exactly this size come along. Looks like Northern Tools carries it for the best price of $50. Kinda pricy, but it's smaller than anything else. I am going to get this as it has a longer more sturdy handle, so more leverage and a feature that lets the load back down one click at a time. And it's only 6lbs. I have some uses for something like this. The strap has a less sturdy handle. Heck, I could pack both at this weight!

Nice! Have to go see that! Might help you out an old trick we used was to heat the plastic grip on a come along so it would slide off. My dad cut a piece of aluminum pipe the length of the come along & flattened the end enough to slide over the handle to double the length. Made a young kid feel like Superman! He got the tube from the RR but I think you could find something at a junk yard for pennies. I've got a piece of cable with two of the 2 channel pulleys on it like a block & tackle hook on each end. Cable can be had at Home Depot along with hooks thimbles & crimp sleeves. The pulleys I got from Ace HDWR. They even crimped it up for me! Saved buying a hand crimper. Hope that gives you an idea or two!

 

[Bonaro]

Gentlemen {cliff162 & Bonaro}, now those are the best of the best in manual pulling/lifting tools! Thank your for passing along your inputs on these high quality Tools! I've not priced them ($329 Powerpull), I anticipate they are more costly than lesser tools but then "one gets what one Pays for"! For a long term manual operation I would not even hesitate to purchase either or both of these units.

Bonaro your electric winch is that like what one would find on the front of a CJ-5 Jeep or is it in between that and an ATV winch? Pushing a button for long term use would really be nice! Question, how much does your winch weigh and how far do you have to "man-handle" it from your vehicle? All of my work & dreaming is Way down a long steep trail.

Again thank you both for your inputs and of course Tahoegold, my hat is off to you for starting this post! ..............63bkpkr

I build these electric winches for sale. I have developed a mounting system that allows the winch to be strapped to a tree and the winch is quick disconnect you can pull it and take it out. I use a 3500# ATV winch and one of the upgrades is a wireless remote control. The winch, mount and battery is probably 80 pounds. If you pack in a come-a-long, chain and big pry bar you will probably be at 50 or 60 pounds. I feel being able to push a button and not having to grunt on a come-a-long handle is worth the extra weight.
I will see if I can post a couple pics of the winch later.
Here is a pic of some come-a-long fun.

 

[ratled]

The reality is for prospecting, except in certain known circumstances, go around the larger rocks that can't be barred out of the way until you can "prove" there is enough gold worth the effort to bring additional gear. As the gold goes up so can the gear.... unless your last name is Hoffman (Sorry in advance TH)

ratled

 

[Vance in AK]

I haven't seen anyone mention the Maasdam ropealong. length of pull is limited only by the length of your rope. I use mine with the blue steel synthetic rope (very light). Rated for 1500#. I use mine for a lot of stuff.

 

[Tahoegold]

I haven't seen anyone mention the Maasdam ropealong. length of pull is limited only by the length of your rope. I use mine with the blue steel synthetic rope (very light). Rated for 1500#. I use mine for a lot of stuff.

Hi All! Vance, I did see this tool. I thought it was a great tool! However, for me, I want to use 3/8" nylon rope and this uses 1/2". I can carry less weight and use 3/8" pullys (which I have). However, this tool is still on my radar!! It looks like a fantastic tool!



Wow, this is great to come back to see these ideas! We got whaloped with snow and I do snow removal as well as other things. I was busy for a week and unable to read this thread.
Boogyman, I was thinking about putting just that onto a handle. I had a different Idea. How about putting a couple "U" bolts on the handle that I can use my Gad bar for a little more leverage? Then, I thought, heck, why would I do this. The unit (I suspect all hand winches) are designed to be safe if used as designed. I'll be somewhere far away from medical help. So, I'm staying with safe and recomended uses.
Hey "63" thanks! Great thread right?! So this Pack Mule can handle 1,000 lbs, the strap winch 900lbs. The wire is only 10'. However, I am only tipping not removing boulders. This 10' length is adequate. The wire is aircraft grade. The hooks are thin but wide and Im sure is rated to match the cable strength. I can hammer steel with rocks back into shape if they bend. I plan to be careful where I place the hooks. I want to use a strap tie down to wrap around a rock. Then run the cable over the top, or a tow strap, or rope and pullys, or a straight line that I pull from the middle. Then I will roll the rock using this technique. I will be carrying less than 50lbs. I got these ideas from this thread. That's fantastic. So far so good. Theres still more winter so I'm still formulating all this!
I like the idea of the grip puller for wire rope. I just like the way come alongs have the rope wound safely inside and there is less need to handle the wire rope which has caused me some cuts due to spurs in the past. I am concerned with cuts to my pack gear as well. However, That can be remedied as well with a proper bag for the wire rope. However, less handling means quicker actions on the boulder moving....again, that could change depending on the size of the boulder and the quantity of gold discovered around said boulder! Because it's over $300 I better be sure!!



Hi Ratled, you are mentioning another thought I have and haven't talked about. This is why I am putting together my gear. I want to sample many places. Then, when I find a place that would warrent boulder moving, I will have some tools to do that. If the spot has big boulders, then Bonaro's winch set-up would be packable and I'm keeping his system on my radar as well! I'm seeing ways now how to go light for the beginning prospecting stage and then ramping up my gear to move bigger rocks and still stay packable. That means under 70lbs to me. If it's more than this I need to bring a friend!
So, although this started as a light weight pack system, there's more that can be done with pack gear. So, bring on those ideas. At some point, I may need gear to move bigger boulders. Maybe I need to make 2-3 trips to bring it all in. Who knows, this is about proper gear so let's keep going on this. Thank you all!!!

 

[ratled]

TG asked for some pictures on my wheeled winch so here they are. It is a based off the old Mighty Lite

ratled

 

[Tahoegold]

This guy has a way to use rope in a unique way with his rope jack!! These rope wrench tools are expensive. They are not on my list.....

 

[Tahoegold]

OK, I revisited the Maasdam rope puller option. It's looking better all the time. Maybe it is a little heavier, however, It's rope. Then I noticed they have strap pullers too. Check these out. Which do you think can take more abuse. Strap or nylon rope. At least the rope is not synthetic. I bet I can replace it myself. The strap may be replaceable as well. I mean like bring an extra set and reload on site. I still like the Pack Mule cable puller. At 6lbs and 1 ton capacity that is very small it just makes sense for a pack trip. However, for a 4000 lb capacity and something like 10lbs, that last ratchet strap on the bottom may be worth the weight!! Thoughts?

 

[mikep691]

Here's how we did it a few years ago:

 

[DizzyDigger]

Which do you think can take more abuse. Strap or nylon rope. At least the rope is not synthetic.

Never cared for nylon rope, but a full sized strap has a "work load" of
over 5000#, and will handle 10,000# just fine.

https://www.myteeproducts.com/4-in-x-30-ft-winch-strap-with-delta-ring.html