Move boulders with gear that can be packed in.

[Tahoegold]

I have been thinking about what I will need to move boulders, or rocks with what I can carry in a pack. However, the pack also has other tools. Pans, (2) 2.5 gal. buckets, either a 24" Bazooka sniper or a Keene A51a fitted with Gold hog mats. A 6' sling. A small strap wratchet 900lb come along. 4 small metal pulleys. A 1" tiedown strap. 50' of 3/8" nylon braided rope. A Gad bar, a rock hammer, and assorted crevacing tools and a metal detector. Food and a gallon of water.
I am interested in Technique. I saw a technique where the strap was tightened around s boulder, then the come along went over the top to the far side. It pulled the boulder and rolled it. Of course, building a cobble ramp, digging under etc all can help. I saw a technique that uses a rope and a stick. Using a loop around a boulder to a tree. One uses the stick to "wind" the rope in the middle. Surpisingly, this method seemed to have the best torque ratio I've ever seen. I am asking for practical ways to use this equipment to leverage my equipment to move boulders in a stream. I also read the New 49rs piece on this. They recomended finding the gold line and making sure not to roll the boulder right into the gold. Well, I cant seem to find a thread on this here. Maybe there is one. Ok, so what can one do with this equipment? Thanks!

 

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[mikep691]

That's all good, but how many trips did you make? Are you mining or prospecting? Not to realistic if you don't know if the gold is even worth the cost of a rock bar

 

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[Tahoegold]

Ok, great, I think we are rolling here again. I know this bar costs more than a straight bar. But not as much as a sluice. What a tool is worth depends on what kind of profit you can make on it. I make good money with a snowblower that cost me $1000. I make nothing off my $75 worth of fishing gear and fishing lic. When I used to fish commercially I sure had the gear and made money too! It all depends on the individual and the ability to be effective with ones tools. So, here's what I was considering. I wanted a pry bar. I have a gad bar. But it's not the same as a pry bar. Close but I wanted a longer lever. I was considering a 24" or a 30" that could be of use. But they were pretty heavy. This bar is both short and longer plus has a foot. Imagine the force that foot can create vs a small bend on a straight bar. Not only that, but more upward force in a tighter space. Now that's a different tool. And, quite possibly able to exert more pressure than a longer bar, and at a greator variety of angles. All packed nicely into a 29" 5lb tool that I would gladly pack on a trip. I was thinking of actially taking no bar because the effective ones were to big and heavy. This thing is supposed to take over 1,000 lbs pressure at the handle. That should equate to quite a lot more at the tip of the foot I would think. So, is this tool equal to a digging bar? Maybe not, but it may be the better bar for moving a rock. Maybe not so good for digging though. Plus it can come in usefull in my garage at home!
I'm all about making the business pay for itself. This is so wise what you all are concerned about. But, I'm only spending $60 not hundreds. I'm grateful for the reality check. Others are reading and have the same question Im sure. I really am looking forward to having this tool. I know I will have many uses for it. Let's see if it's up to snuff for mining! Hey if it's what I'm hoping for, I will have solved my weight vs lever tool concern. It's really cool lookin too. Can't wait to see what it can do!

 

[minerrick]

Not to sound presumptuous, but if you are moving a boulder that you can move with a wrecking bar, chances are it has already been moved before and most likely as recently as last spring. Several of the things I mentioned can be carried by myself and one other and we can move rocks that NO ONE has ever been under. But we have higher expectations.... I want to find gold rush gold and the only place you are going to find that on the surface of this planet, is to go where NO ONE HAS EVER GONE BEFORE; as that kind of gold doesn't move around. Now when I first go out looking for a place to work, I travel light, but I am always on the look out for those kind of places and rocks that don't look like they have been cribbed before or parts of a canyon where it would be impossible for anyone to get under the rocks. Sure, its a lot more work than just dragging a bar in, but I am looking for the big chunky stuff. In reading of the old monster nuggets found, some of the nugs were more than 100+ lbs..... I'd be happy to find a 10 pounder.... AND I am willing to work for it.

 

[mikep691]

Not to sound presumptuous, but if you are moving a boulder that you can move with a wrecking bar, chances are it has already been moved before and most likely as recently as last spring. Several of the things I mentioned can be carried by myself and one other and we can move rocks that NO ONE has ever been under. But we have higher expectations.... I want to find gold rush gold and the only place you are going to find that on the surface of this planet, is to go where NO ONE HAS EVER GONE BEFORE; as that kind of gold doesn't move around. Now when I first go out looking for a place to work, I travel light, but I am always on the look out for those kind of places and rocks that don't look like they have been cribbed before or parts of a canyon where it would be impossible for anyone to get under the rocks. Sure, its a lot more work than just dragging a bar in, but I am looking for the big chunky stuff. In reading of the old monster nuggets found, some of the nugs were more than 100+ lbs..... I'd be happy to find a 10 pounder.... AND I am willing to work for it.

This is the point of the whole thread. We would all like to find that "Game Changer" nugget, but when first going to a new area, it's just not feasible to pack in all that stuff you mentioned earlier. Packing in all that gear leaves no room for the necessities, like beer. And why would you even spend the time, money, and effort on a house sized boulder if you haven't even spent the time to find out if there's small gold around it? They say if you a million in gold, you have to start with three million in cash. You'd be well on your way to the three million with all that gear.

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok, here is what I do. I have a very remote claim with HUGE boulders and I have to pack everything in on my back:

#1 and foremost: SIERRA BLASTER SierraBlaster - this is truly a game changer. I have used this for over 3 years and there is nothing like it on the market. Make big rocks smaller to move, get in really difficult locations.....

#2 if you are using a Sierra Blaster or any other method to break rocks, be forewarned.... any rocks that get split will have knife-like edges on them, so when I am working around those type of rocks (especially in wet areas), I wear Boggs boots, with Hockey leggins tucked into the boots. If you happen to slip and "rub" your leg against one of those newly broken rocks, most likely you will begin to aggressively leak blood. Leaking blood in remote canyons is not my idea of fun. Be really careful with broken rocks.

#3 Capstan Winch https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200452220_200452220 - very light weight and easy to set up and use. Has 5000 lb pulling power. For more power (and a more difficult lug in to the claim) I have one of these- Winches Plus - the modular winching system. It is a hydraulic winch that can be run HARD all day long without worrying about burning up a battery. I have over 4 full summer's of use without a hiccup of problems with it, and I use synthetic cable to ensure when I run my hands on the cable I don't end up leaking.... see #1.

#4. Winch Net- I use military helicopter cargo net- the netting is black/grey and has 6" pockets and is usually 20' across or so. Super durable and lightweight.... and best of all, when using it, no leaking. I usually cut out several different shapes out of the main net to accommodate different types of rock: 2x2, 3x4, 4x6, 8x8. When you throw it in the water, it half floats and half sinks, so it is really easy to hook one of the pockets around a point in the rock, or to use the winch hook to get a real tight grab on the rock. And did I mention that it is really light weight? I'm an older guy, so "throwing tire chains around" is not an option and the cargo net works awesome. They are kind of expensive, so I'd go in with someone and then cut it up in to different sizes for both of you. I've gotten 3+ years of use out of the nets rubbing against other rocks and my winching is very aggressive.

#5. When dealing with very water worn rocks, I don't screw around. Lots of times you will be putting the net around it and still the rock slips out. So to eliminate that issue with difficult rocks, I designed a "winch attachment point" which is basically a 6" long piece of 3" channel. On the webbing part of the channel, I drill a 5/8" hole and with the channel laying on its back on a bench, I weld a piece of rebar to the inner side of the channel, bend it up and weld the other end to the other side of the channel. So looking at it from the side, the rebar sticks up and out of the channel in a loop fashion, allowing a hook to be attached to it. When I get one of those rocks, I pull out my sds drill and drill a 9/16' hole into the rock to be moved and then I get a Simpson "Titen" rock bolt and pull out the ratchet and screw the titen bolt and the winch attachment point on to the rock and then I swiftly pull it away- no fuss, no muss. When the rock is where I want it, I unscrew the attachment point and reuse the screw on the next rock. Take a look at the shear specs on the titen bolts. Pretty impressive.

6. On some of the bigger (and I am talking REALLY) bigger rocks, I use a double sheave snatch block having attachment points at the top and bottom. The only place I have found those is from industrial applications and when I pack them in, they are the ONLY thing on my back. 75lbs worth. In "special" applications, it is worth the effort.

7. Since I have winch attachment points and I think of myself as a person who doesn't like to damage living things, I always use my winch attachment points on bedrock or other boulders. I NEVER strap up a tree as there is a strong possibility you will damage the cambium layer of the tree if your strap slips. So I ALWAYS screw my winch attachment points to non-living things for placing snatch blocks or whatever.

That's what I do. I think that covers it.

This is Golden Minerrick! This is how we could share knowledge about this subject. Great info! Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Tahoegold]

Hi Tahoegold,
The shorter the lever the more you will need to use your muscles/body. Be careful with your short bar as one can easily tear muscles such as the ones around the shoulder joint when moving 'heavy' things. Damage to the self can also be accomplished with longer bars especially when one tries to move increasingly larger boulders. At some point something has to give, be careful to not damage your shoulders, back, knees & etc.

The information on the simple rope & log devices is way cool (aka - illuminating)!................63bkpkr

Hey 63bkpkr, Those vids had some good info didn't they?! I understand about the short lever deal. When I saw this tool the first time it was the 18"-29" version. I found out there was a 29"-48" version. NOW I was seeing something substantially better than my 18" gad bar. I found Amazon has the best price on these. When a cosmetically damaged one of the 29"-48" came up for sale I couldnt resist. It was the longest lever at the lightest weight I could find and was willing to carry. It just fit the bill. I have always worked very hard for a living. I was thinking I'll get the longest lever I can and just find out what I can do with it. I'm trying to cover ground and wanted to be able to move rocks I couldn't move by hand. At 4' and 5lbs, there doesnt seem to be a lighter longer lever. I like it! I've never permanently damaged my back or knees. I will move what ever I can move rapidly. Then, move on...

 

[Tahoegold]

That's all good, but how many trips did you make? Are you mining or prospecting? Not to realistic if you don't know if the gold is even worth the cost of a rock bar

Hey Mikep691, exactly, if I was mining and spending on equipment that I had no idea would work effectively on a location, that would be foolish. I am purly prospecting. I'm putting together my light weight travel kit for sampling. I needed one long lever to go with me. This seemed to suit me for length and weight.

 

[minerrick]

This is the point of the whole thread. We would all like to find that "Game Changer" nugget, but when first going to a new area, it's just not feasible to pack in all that stuff you mentioned earlier. Packing in all that gear leaves no room for the necessities, like beer. And why would you even spend the time, money, and effort on a house sized boulder if you haven't even spent the time to find out if there's small gold around it? They say if you a million in gold, you have to start with three million in cash. You'd be well on your way to the three million with all that gear.

First of all, when I go somewhere.... I know EXACTLY what to expect. Some areas are known for scaleable quantities of gold. I never enter a canyon when looking for gold and not find gold. See my post in another thread about mapping. For the last 150 years, every Tom, Dick & Harry has been out looking for the "easy" gold. It can be found, as one of my good friends and a fellow forum member can attest- he found a claim he could drive to- within a few miles of a very popular mother lode town- which we call "nugget creek". In my research, it had NEVER been claimed and is full of nuggets sitting on bedrock.... So those locations are out there, but you have to be very lucky to find them. Me? I like to go where I KNOW exactly what I am looking for and what the possibilities are. If a location is known for flower gold, I won't waste my time. Flower gold is everywhere, I like chunks. Ironically, most the gold you find is flower, but I'd rather be getting flower in a location known for big nuggets, than flower in a location known for flower gold.... but that's just me. Different strokes for different folks.

So if I am in a location known for 100 lb nuggets found previously, what do you think the odds are for me moving a house sized boulder - THAT NO ONE HAS EVER GOTTEN UNDER- and finding a "lump" (as the old timer's called it) of gold of that size or smaller? My guess is odds are pretty good. So would you rather spend a weekend moving your 400 lbs rocks and getting a few pennyweights or moving a 100 ton monstrosity and possibly finding a 100lb mass of gold? And if I don't find the 100lb mass of gold, my "booby prize" maybe a few pounds of nuggets instead? Hey... for me it is all about the hunt and not about "making money". I gave up on that a long time ago. For me, it's the adventure. And in my honest opinion, the tool that makes all this possible is the SIERRA BLASTER. But don't just ask me, talk to Reed Lukens or many others on the this forum who have used this amazing tool, about what they think the GAME CHANGING possibilities are of using this tool. I am amassing heads for that thing and I am up to 7, and will probably have 10 before the spring is over. I have a summer project where I think that tool will provide me enough fun for me to remember the rest of my life.

Odds are, hiking out with a 6 foot wrecking bar, instead of the Sierra Blaster (which is lighter)- the fun isn't going to compete. But do what rocks your boat. One of my issues is I am in my 60's and my elbows are toast from chronic tendonitis, so a wrecking bar is out of the question. These days I try to work smarter. More investment for the Sierra Blaster, but in my opinion- a total game changer and if you don't quickly find quantities which will pay for your investment, I'd be surprised or maybe you should find a new avocation.

I have several friends who have "booked me" for bringing over my Sierra Blaster to help them on their claims. One guy I talked to last night is expecting that after a day's worth of work with the SB, we will most likely find pounds of gold. It is under a rock where he has already found pounds, but he was never able to get entirely under it because he could never move it. He thinks if we cleave off a few pieces it will open huge possibilities. I'm game.

 

[Vance in AK]

Right Vance! For me, this is a fun hobby. I have no delusions that I'm going to strike it rich and quit my day job! But, that bar is just way too cool. I couldn't pass up the sale on it. I'm sure I could have spent $15 on a bar. But, look at this thing! Its got some skills!! I'm having a great time with this hobby. This will only make it funner!

Exactly! I needed to "like" that post 4 times so I can learn it! My time in the hills seems to be very limited the last few years so my tendency is to go somewhere that I have found a little gold before & throw the sluice in or get the highbanker out rather than spend my limited time looking for the "mother-lode". Hopefully that will change this year. Last year we bought a full size 6x6 Polaris Ranger with the idea we will use it for a hunting/prospecting machine. We will see how that goes.
But you are right, hobbies are about fun. The guns in the gun safe, flyrods in their cases, etc are all proof of that. I could get by just fine with just the 375 Ruger & a nice 6wt. But I dont
If prospecting ever became the way I make a living it would change how I bought things. If that bar works well I will be looking for one. I have 3,4, & 6' bars but like you said they are a little heavy for back-country prospecting.

 

[Tahoegold]

This is the point of the whole thread. We would all like to find that "Game Changer" nugget, but when first going to a new area, it's just not feasible to pack in all that stuff you mentioned earlier. Packing in all that gear leaves no room for the necessities, like beer. And why would you even spend the time, money, and effort on a house sized boulder if you haven't even spent the time to find out if there's small gold around it? They say if you a million in gold, you have to start with three million in cash. You'd be well on your way to the three million with all that gear.

Right, THIS IS the whole point! Prospecting for the chunky! Packing light, having fun and some room in the pack for beer! Yes, the point is half serious, half fun! I'm not trying to mine and go hog wild on a mission to run out with a light weight gear setup to find a house size boulder to move and break my arm trying to do it. I kinda figured there would be parts of this discussion that would have those concerns. Ok, I think we have asked those questions. I'm planning to prospect. I like the point made by these two posts. Looking for gold no one has found would be a cool goal. Heck, I was only thinking of finding a paystreak or pocket somewhere that I could bring in a sluice later with a different set of tools for the job. My skill set doesn't include large boulder moving. I'll need to hire someone who knows to do that!

 

[minerrick]

I'm not sure I get the "long lever" idea... Even if you are dealing with a rock that the lever will move, rarely do you find a rock just sitting on the surface- it is usually somewhat dug in- in the dirt, usually surrounded by other dug in rocks. Unless the rock you want to move is just sitting on the surface, the lever isn't going to be much help, without a lot of digging with a shovel, prospectors pick etc. You start fiddling with that for a few months, and you will start to recognize the simplicity of my solution. But you sound young, so enjoy yourself while your muscles will allow. And after a few months of frustration, you may want to revisit this thread..... jus say'n.....

 

[Tahoegold]

First of all, when I go somewhere.... I know EXACTLY what to expect. Some areas are known for scaleable quantities of gold. I never enter a canyon when looking for gold and not find gold. See my post in another thread about mapping. For the last 150 years, every Tom, Dick & Harry has been out looking for the "easy" gold. It can be found, as one of my good friends and a fellow forum member can attest- he found a claim he could drive to- within a few miles of a very popular mother lode town- which we call "nugget creek". In my research, it had NEVER been claimed and is full of nuggets sitting on bedrock.... So those locations are out there, but you have to be very lucky to find them. Me? I like to go where I KNOW exactly what I am looking for and what the possibilities are. If a location is known for flower gold, I won't waste my time. Flower gold is everywhere, I like chunks. Ironically, most the gold you find is flower, but I'd rather be getting flower in a location known for big nuggets, than flower in a location known for flower gold.... but that's just me. Different strokes for different folks.

So if I am in a location known for 100 lb nuggets found previously, what do you think the odds are for me moving a house sized boulder - THAT NO ONE HAS EVER GOTTEN UNDER- and finding a "lump" (as the old timer's called it) of gold of that size or smaller? My guess is odds are pretty good. So would you rather spend a weekend moving your 400 lbs rocks and getting a few pennyweights or moving a 100 ton monstrosity and possibly finding a 100lb mass of gold? And if I don't find the 100lb mass of gold, my "booby prize" maybe a few pounds of nuggets instead? Hey... for me it is all about the hunt and not about "making money". I gave up on that a long time ago. For me, it's the adventure. And in my honest opinion, the tool that makes all this possible is the SIERRA BLASTER. But don't just ask me, talk to Reed Lukens or many others on the this forum who have used this amazing tool, about what they think the GAME CHANGING possibilities are of using this tool. I am amassing heads for that thing and I am up to 7, and will probably have 10 before the spring is over. I have a summer project where I think that tool will provide me enough fun for me to remember the rest of my life.

Odds are, hiking out with a 6 foot wrecking bar, instead of the Sierra Blaster (which is lighter)- the fun isn't going to compete. But do what rocks your boat. One of my issues is I am in my 60's and my elbows are toast from chronic tendonitis, so a wrecking bar is out of the question. These days I try to work smarter. More investment for the Sierra Blaster, but in my opinion- a total game changer and if you don't quickly find quantities which will pay for your investment, I'd be surprised or maybe you should find a new avocation.

I have several friends who have "booked me" for bringing over my Sierra Blaster to help them on their claims. One guy I talked to last night is expecting that after a day's worth of work with the SB, we will most likely find pounds of gold. It is under a rock where he has already found pounds, but he was never able to get entirely under it because he could never move it. He thinks if we cleave off a few pieces it will open huge possibilities. I'm game.

Great story, valuable info! I'll have to check out Sierra Blaster. I have no idea what that is. Also, I have not gone out to the area I plan on going. I don't know what I'll find. I don't have a claim. Your friend was very fortunate! I'd love to find a nugget creek, I think that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm on a hunt into the unknown and I'm taking what I can to go there to find what I can. And, I'm asking for advice on techniques to move what I can with what I have listed as my equipment. The videos I posted use techniques that I can use with what I have. I am not opposed to larger scale operations being talked about here as that would be the next step. And, those stories are useful as they are motivating fory my hunt! Thank you Minerrick!

 

[Tahoegold]

I'm not sure I get the "long lever" idea... Even if you are dealing with a rock that the lever will move, rarely do you find a rock just sitting on the surface- it is usually somewhat dug in- in the dirt, usually surrounded by other dug in rocks. Unless the rock you want to move is just sitting on the surface, the lever isn't going to be much help, without a lot of digging with a shovel, prospectors pick etc. You start fiddling with that for a few months, and you will start to recognize the simplicity of my solution. But you sound young, so enjoy yourself while your muscles will allow. And after a few months of frustration, you may want to revisit this thread..... jus say'n.....

I get your point. The "long lever" idea comes from what I wanted to pack in as gear. I currently only have an 18" gad bar. This 4' sdjustable bar with an adjustable foot foot weighing in at 5lbs seems substantially more effecient and very light. An 18lb 72 inch digging bar wasn't going to make the list. A 24" crow bar didn't make sense either as it wasn't substantially better than an 18" bar for the added weight. I don't see myself trying to move something for a long time. I'm planning on doing what I can with what I have as fast as I can and then move up river. Nope, I'm not young. Just inexperienced at moving rocks with small equipment and looking for advice. I have seen rocks burried deep. I understand your point. I also understand the point about loose rocks probably having been moved already. I'm mostly interested in technique sharing. Thanks for your input!

 

[minerrick]

As a side note to the moving boulders thread.... I don't know how many of you watching this thread are retired or cobbling odd jobs together, but recently I had a local contractor call me because he heard I had a Sierra Blaster and offered my services occasionally. He was remodeling a local building to put a restaurant in and had to dig a 4x4x4 hole in the concrete floor inside the building near the foundation wall. He dug about 18" down with his excavator and hit a granite boulder sticking through the foundation. So he went to the local rental yard and rented a big air compressor and jackhammer and had one of his hired hands working the jackhammer all day to literally accomplish nothing but make a bunch of holes in a big granite rock- so for $200 T&M and rental fees he accomplished nothing. So the contractor called me and asked me what I would charge to break the rock... not having a clue to what contractors get, I offered $90/hour, 2 hour minimum, plus charges used. He was good with it and set me loose on the rock. Well, long story short, in 15 minutes I destroyed that rock where the excavator was picking up little pieces and pulling them out of the hole. I walked out of there for 15 minutes of work with $200. Another story, I talked to a contractor who got a job removing a 10' diameter rock inside the living room of a local mansion. The new owners didn't appreciate the rock taking up so much room, so the new homeowner hired the contractor to remove the rock- T&M. I am not sure what conventional method he used (most likely being concrete saws on the inside of a home) , but it took him over a month and the cost to the homeowner was $30k. REALLY. Using the SB, I could have done it in an afternoon, if I paid someone to help remove the rock. Heck, I would have done it for $10k. I think I may have found a new niche business. Boulders are a problem for everyone in construction and mining, and until now, you had to hire a explosives expert to break the rocks up at $500/hr. This summer I think I am going to offer up my rock breaking skills to make a little extra cash when I am not mining. Sounds like fun to me. I cannot think of a more fun way to make money, than breaking rocks using the right tools. Food for thought for you guys who live in rocky areas if you need to make a little extra cash. I bet it make more money than a 6 foot wrecking bar..... eh?

 

[Tahoegold]

Once I find a place to use the SB it would be a big help and a light weight solution! Nice!

 

[minerrick]

Once I find a place to use the SB it would be a big help and a light weight solution! Nice!

Your time will come, and when it does, you will finally realize what you are missing out on.

 

[minerrick]

xxx- double post

 

[Tahoegold]

And I hate missin' out!! Lol

 

[mikep691]

Rick, are you near foresthill

 

[mikep691]

Once I find a place to use the SB it would be a big help and a light weight solution! Nice!

Sierra blaster is a series of blasting caps, not dynomite, and it requires drilled holes in the boulder of choice and a battery to set off the charges. So, lets pack in a drill, power for that drill, battery, caps and all for the SB. ONE PERSON, not a team of people. I'm not convinced this is the "weight saving " "Gitterdone" method for Joe the plumber. This who we really are talking about. Rick, since you no longer prospect, and only go where you say you know the "really big gold" is, I can only say BULL But thanks for the input.