Odyssey treasure will go to Spain!

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

VOC Spain is not selling the coins. They are not smart enough. They just announced that the coins, whats left of them, are going on display in museums across the country. The crooked politicians got the rest. OME just wrote this off as a bump in the road. Did you hear they (OME) recovered 110 tons of silver bars from the Garissopa? A vessel that Spain claimed as theirs when OME announced it's discovery.

Still crying poor baby. Spain don't need to sell the coins, they will put them on display in Florida and charge you admission to come and see them

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

AUVnav

Good to see you back posting.

You say Odyssey asked Spain for permission to search in that area and was denied.

























Was the wreck not in international waters so, how could they have denied anyone permission to search ? Not even sure it fell in Spanish 200m economic zone, as I thought I read it was more of the Portuguese coast.

Not sure exactly where it was.

OME should be applauded for putting them through the legal system as they could have easily been landed in a African country and sold to the highest bidder

VOC

Applauded How much did it cost them ? And now have legal fee's ! Good job Odyssey , next time get permission .

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Just did a Google search and most results say it was recovered off Portugal.

If they recovered it from Spanish territorial waters, some serious questions should be asked about the Spanish authorities why they did not intercept the OME vessel (they did not do this in a few hours).

And like we have said if it was not in Spanish territorial waters then OME did not need permission from Spain.

It does not matter what it says in the court papers about Spain not giving permission if OME did not need it.

I heard that OME asked Spain if they wanted to be involved with the search and they eventually said No, that is not the same as having the rights to deny permission.

VOC

Because Odyssey paid off some corrupt politicians to keep the civil guard away ! They have been investigated and should go to jail with Greg Stemn .

 

[VOC]

"VOC You are a funny Man , Where do you live man ? Foggy England ? England national deb is 20 time's more than Spain
you can come to Australia and bend some bananas to get in the practice as England becomes a banana republic"

Hi Ossy, how is life down on your British out station, keep looking at the little flag in the top left corner of your flag long enough and you may become one of us

We might have a bit more debt than Spain, but we do have a **** more assets and we got a ways of paying it off, Oil, fracking gas, treasure wrecks, and 93% employment.

At least Spain knows how to steal from the South Americans and North American salvors, so they are in with a chance of reducing their debt, and with so many unemployed at least they have got plenty of spare hands to count the coins that are left after the sticky fingers of public officials have been in the tubs.

OME are not in the slightest worried about giving Spain back the coins or paying 1/3rd of Spain's court cost, as they have benefited hugely in publicity, TV rights, share price increases and additional investors & investment on the back of the Mercedes project, and the real recovery cost to them was minimal, as if they were not recovering they would just have been doing more searching, so in the big picture of how they budget a year was cost neutral (searching v recovery)

Good to see you back on here, what a treat, especially with you and AUVnav and in the same week.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

"VOC You are a funny Man , Where do you live man ? Foggy England ? England national deb is 20 time's more than Spain
you can come to Australia and bend some bananas to get in the practice as England becomes a banana republic"

Hi Ossy, how is life down on your British out station, keep looking at the little flag in the top left corner of your flag long enough and you may become one of us

We might have a bit more debt than Spain, but we do have a **** more assets and we got a ways of paying it off, Oil, fracking gas, treasure wrecks, and 93% employment.

At least Spain knows how to steal from the South Americans and North American salvors, so they are in with a chance of reducing their debt, and with so many unemployed at least they have got plenty of spare hands to count the coins that are left after the sticky fingers of public officials have been in the tubs.

OME are not in the slightest worried about giving Spain back the coins or paying 1/3rd of Spain's court cost, as they have benefited hugely in publicity, TV rights, share price increases and additional investors & investment on the back of the Mercedes project, and the real recovery cost to them was minimal, as if they were not recovering they would just have been doing more searching, so in the big picture of how they budget a year was cost neutral (searching v recovery)

Good to see you back on here, what a treat, especially with you and AUVnav and in the same week.

G/day VOC life is good here in sunny England ( Australia ) Yes, need to fix that Australian flag , needs some red and yellow added with a lion and castle here and there
Good to see you have picked up the bat ton for Jeff . FYI .http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8736195/aussies-the-worlds-richest-people-repo

 

[Vox veritas]

Spanish television issued today, October 12, this program on the treasury of the Mercedes.
It seems to me that one of the coins is dated 1808 (about 3:21). And you?
V.V.

Informe Semanal - El desafío del tesoro, Informe Semanal - RTVE.es A la Carta

 

[Vox veritas]

Spanish television issued today, October 12, this program on the treasury of the Mercedes.
It seems to me that one of the coins is dated 1808 (about 3:21). And you?
V.V.

Informe Semanal - El desafío del tesoro, Informe Semanal - RTVE.es A la Carta

Indeed, Carlos IV reigned until March 1808, and the coin has the effigy of Carlos IIII (with four sticks).

 

[AUVnav]

The coin on the screen is from a database for comparision...

the coin in her hand is covered, but the date ends in a '1' not an '8'



(3:23)

 

[Vox veritas]

The coin on the screen is from a database for comparision...

the coin in her hand is covered, but the date ends in a '1' not an '8'

(3:23)

Apparently the currency of the screen, on the right side, is a member of the cataloged and recovered. It has the logo of the Ministry of Culture (in yellow).
The one who is holding the official, yes, ends in "1", which may be 1801, but refers to another different from the screen.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Apparently the currency of the screen, on the right side, is a member of the cataloged and recovered. It has the logo of the Ministry of Culture (in yellow).
The one who is holding the official, yes, ends in "1", which may be 1801, but refers to another different from the screen.

What are you saying Claudio ?? It's about time you give us your real thoughts and personal dealings with the Mercedes ! You claim you found her on the Portuguese coast ?
Are you saying its a different ship ?
Jeff mentioned you asked Odyssey for $50,000 for information on the Mercedes location , Whats the deal ?
Ozzy

 

[Vox veritas]

What are you saying Claudio ?? It's about time you give us your real thoughts and personal dealings with the Mercedes ! You claim you found her on the Portuguese coast ?
Are you saying its a different ship ?
Jeff mentioned you asked Odyssey for $50,000 for information on the Mercedes location , Whats the deal ?
Ozzy

Ozzy I got the log book of Diego Alvear , then deputy chief of Spanish naval squadron , to be deposited in the family archive a copy of which I have notarized . Also researched in the archives of the Spanish Navy , where I found many nautical indications documents . Very important was the collaboration of a trawling fishing master of Portimao (southern Portugal). This Master drafted a map of wrecks from Cape St. Vincent to the Spanish border Guadiana river , reaching the depth of 1300 meters. I signed an agreement with him, but the map took from my home the police in 2006 in Operation orchestrated to promote Odysey (such as time and the facts proved ) .
To search jobs in Portugal I had a legal authorization of the Portuguese Navy .
With historical and nautical information and knowledge of fishing master began to search using magnetometer and side scan sonar found a target with obvious remains of wreck and cannons , but could not verify it visually , because the Italian company for the survey had a job in Italy and had to return to Portugal in November 1982. Earlier this month the Portuguese Navy “suspended " authorizations. We could never work again.


The importance of one or more currencies among those returned by Odyssey to Spain dated after 1804, would demonstrate that:

1) possibly the treasure does not come from the Mercedes;
2) possibly have recovered treasures of several shipwrecks.



Those in power in Spain in 2007 agreed that the recovered treasure was in international waters (or high sea) to get rid of responsibilities. The Mercedes is in Portuguese territorial waters, the rest is all lies.

Another strange fact is that the Ministry of Culture, in a first institutional arrangements, agreed (December 2005) to recover the remains of the Mercedes, and a senior official saying that "we would have filled many museums". Interestingly and coincidentally, in 2007 Odyssey recovered a treasure, and then was said to be of the Mercedes. Another intriguing fact is that I published my book with the chapter of the Mercedes in February 2007. My book was used in court in Tampa.

And more casual was that Odyssey recovered a treasure (officially) in May 2007.

Too many coincidences!
[FONT=&quot]P. S.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I never asked for $ 50,000 for information. Anyone who says is a liar[/FONT]

 

[huntsman53]

Those in power in Spain in 2007 agreed that the recovered treasure was in international waters (or high sea) to get rid of responsibilities. The Mercedes is in Portuguese territorial waters, the rest is all lies.

If the above statement is true, then Odyssey should have prevailed in the Courts as they did not need to ask Spain for permission to search the waters! However, if in fact the shipwreck was in Portuguese waters, then they only needed to ask Portugal, right?? From the sounds of it and as many have eluded to, the Court decisions were orchestrated by the Obama Administration possibly to gain favor with Spain. In light of this information, can Odyssey appeal to the World Court? Now, who are the true thieves in this saga? Spain did nothing to find and retrieve the treasures from this shipwreck in 200 years and likewise, the treasures from the many other Spanish shipwrecks dating as far back as the 1500's but the minute that treasures are raised from these shipwrecks, Spain is all to eager to lay claim to them even though they abandoned them long ago. Salvors salvaging Pirate or other Countries' (other than Spain's) shipwrecks must suffer great trepidation everytime some Spanish coins are found while doing the salvage!


Frank

 

[VOC]

The court cases in America, never got as far as establishing legal ownership or whether or not it was the Mercedes that the coins had come from, only whether or not the American courts had jurisdiction to establish ownership.

The politicaly directed courts decided that they did not have jurisdiction, but did say the coins had to go to the claimant and one third of their legal fees paid by OME.

There is still no firm evidence that the coins actually come from the Mercedes or that Spain are the actual legal owners of those coins.

It is now much better for OME to let Spain clean and catalogue them all before the next legal challenge in the European courts to get them all handed back.

Everyone knows via the Wikileaks how OME were stitched up and more and more evidence is being collated how this was not the Mercedes, so any Spanish smugness and rejoicing might be short lived.

Like they say it is not over until the fat lady sings.

 

[Vox veritas]

If the above statement is true, then Odyssey should have prevailed in the Courts as they did not need to ask Spain for permission to search the waters! However, if in fact the shipwreck was in Portuguese waters, then they only needed to ask Portugal, right?? From the sounds of it and as many have eluded to, the Court decisions were orchestrated by the Obama Administration possibly to gain favor with Spain. In light of this information, can Odyssey appeal to the World Court? Now, who are the true thieves in this saga? Spain did nothing to find and retrieve the treasures from this shipwreck in 200 years and likewise, the treasures from the many other Spanish shipwrecks dating as far back as the 1500's but the minute that treasures are raised from these shipwrecks, Spain is all to eager to lay claim to them even though they abandoned them long ago. Salvors salvaging Pirate or other Countries' (other than Spain's) shipwrecks must suffer great trepidation everytime some Spanish coins are found while doing the salvage!


Frank

Frank
Anyway, and what has happened has happened, in a remote hypothesis that the Mercedes was within 30 miles of the coast is still within the EEZ of Portugal, since high seas begins from 200 miles.
Another point to ponder. Why, if the Mercedes is in international waters Spain could claim a treasure that has no legal right to be exactly where they say were? It is absurd. Certain senior officials from Spain were keen that the treasure was in international waters. Interestingly (another curiosity over the many) the lawsuit of Spain against Odyssey was not criminal (plunder of cultural heritage under Spanish law). Why?

 

[Vox veritas]

The court cases in America, never got as far as establishing legal ownership or whether or not it was the Mercedes that the coins had come from, only whether or not the American courts had jurisdiction to establish ownership.

The politicaly directed courts decided that they did not have jurisdiction, but did say the coins had to go to the claimant and one third of their legal fees paid by OME.

There is still no firm evidence that the coins actually come from the Mercedes or that Spain are the actual legal owners of those coins.

It is now much better for OME to let Spain clean and catalogue them all before the next legal challenge in the European courts to get them all handed back.

Everyone knows via the Wikileaks how OME were stitched up and more and more evidence is being collated how this was not the Mercedes, so any Spanish smugness and rejoicing might be short lived.

Like they say it is not over until the fat lady sings.

VOC
This is not the Spanish authorities say. For Spain, it is the treasure of the Mercedes that come home. The gentleman who appears in this TV program, is the current Minister of Culture

Informe Semanal - El desafío del tesoro, Informe Semanal - RTVE.es A la Carta

 

[AUVnav]

First, The Portugese waters makes sense for many reasons. In looking back throught the historical accounts, it is reasonable that the wreck would be Port waters, but close to the line between Spanish and Port waters.

Second, from historical accounts, there will be 2 distinct portions of the vessel. While the shot/explosion ripped the belly out and dumped the contents in a very tight location, we know that Alvears family was rescued from the floating forecastle, which would have sunk in a different location, likely much further into Spanish waters. It is likely Odyssey located the belly, but not the forecastle (where it is likely most of the gold on board would have been)

Third. The criminal complaint. I believe there was a criminal complaint filed in the Spanish Courts against Odyssey. Not sure whatever happened to that. The US Court has the location under seal, so Spain has the location. It would make sense that if the location was in Port waters, Spain would have made a deal with Port to keep quiet about this.

Fourth. Spain has not abandoned its property, and keeps asserting that, in fact all Countries of the World have sucessfully made that assertion on their Naval vessels, recently the Victory and the Sussex.

Fifth. As noted by the mosaic from the site, the Red Sculpin typical depth is max at 400 feet, not 1100 feet or 1000m as noted by Odyssey in the Court documents. In that area of the sea, it drops off very quickly, so 400 feet is not that far from a shore.

 

[huntsman53]

Frank
Interestingly (another curiosity over the many) the lawsuit of Spain against Odyssey was not criminal (plunder of cultural heritage under Spanish law). Why?

Probably because this would automatically force the proceedings into the World Courts or higher Criminal Courts and Odyssey would likely defend themselves, tooth and nail which would more than likely have clearly shown that Spain had no right to lay claim to the treasure! Although Odyssey may have written this loss off as a lesson learned, if I were their' CEO, I would force it into the World Courts so that Odyssey could have their' day in court without interference from the Obama Administration.


Frank

 

[old man]

Probably because this would automatically force the proceedings into the World Courts or higher Criminal Courts and Odyssey would like defend themselves, tooth and nail which would more than likely have clearly shown that Spain had no right to lay claim to the treasure! Although Odyssey may have written this loss off as a lesson learned, if I were their' CEO, I would force it into the World Courts so that Odyssey could have their' day in court without interference from the Obama Administration.


Frank

Huntsman, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Obama and the Democrats are not the people in power in the US Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is controlled by Conservative Republicans. Now can we get back to Shipwrecks

 

[cedar6712]

Huntsman, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Obama and the Democrats are not the people in power in the US Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is controlled by Conservative Republicans. Now can we get back to Shipwrecks

A U.S. federal court and a panel from the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit was as far as the case went. The Supreme Court never got the case as far as I know.

 

[Salvor6]

Old Man, Huntsman suggests that Odyssey take the case to the World Court in the Hague, Netherlands, not the US Supreme Court.