Old Fisher CZ6 verses a Top Digital Machine

[Cool Hand Fluke]

I was out hunting an old park in San Francisco this weekend with my trusty old Fisher CZ6. I purchased this machine back in 1993. I invited a friend along and he had a top of the line digital machine. While we were hunting I located a deep coin signal with my CZ6 and called my friend over to check it with his machine. The depth on the target was 6 to 7 inches. He sweeped his coil over the spot and got no response from his detector. He then did some tweeks to his machine and still got no response. I proceded to dig target and came up with a rossie silver dime! Whats going on here? My friend tried everything to get a hit on that target, changing ground balance, sensitivity, ect.

 

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[Sandman]

I have a CZ-6a and it is a deep machine. What detector was your friend using? If it was a Minelab it should have picked it up if the coils were the same size. A DFX would do it in either both frequencies or the 3. A CZ-20 or 21 would have picked it up because they are the water versions of the CZ6a.

 

[Cool Hand Fluke]

I prefer not to mention the brand. I don't want to start a detector war. He did have a doublle D coil, the standard size that comes with his detector. The mineralized ground conditions in the San Francisco parks can be a challenge. When I ground ballance my CZ6 my knob is turned all the way up to 1 or 2. Could this "hot" ground be troublesome to some machines? Another thing I've noticed is the stability of the older analog machines over the digital machines. My needle on my old CZ will lock on a good target, where as the newer digital machines will sometimes bounce numbers on the display screen. What
causes this inconsistency with target I.D. on the digital machines? Two weekends ago I locked on a good target with my CZ that was a solid 8 inches deep. The needle never fluctuated, it locked right on the target. To my surprize out pops a 1908-S indian head penny...

 

[AUDuke]

There is no way you are going to get a answer or reason for this question unless you provide the model of detector your friend was using.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The depth on the target was 6 to 7 inches. He sweeped his coil over the spot and got no response from his detector. He then did some tweeks to his machine and still got no response. I proceded to dig target and came up with a rossie silver dime! Whats going on here?

Perhaps he left his detector in the back seat of his car once too often on bright sunny days.

Who can say? A 6" to 7" deep dime certainly isn't outside normal range. Did he ground balance properly? Trust an "automatic" g.b. circuit? Clean inside the coil cover lately? There are a lot of variables.

 

[kando]

Now to me if you are going to talk about something you should tell the whole story or not tell any part at all. We are not a bunch of kids here that you might hurt our feelings..Either the whole story or none at all.

 

[kascinoh]

LOL

"...If it was a <insert the name of the top-line machine you are using here> it should have picked it up".

LOL

 

[Cool Hand Fluke]

OK guys, it's a Teknetics T2. The guy who owns it is a dealer. He also has an electronics background, very knowledgeable with the hobby. He owns about 5 different machines.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Capable machine, but then so is the CZ6. I've know experienced users who inadvertently notched OUT what they were hunting for.

 

[AUDuke]

I find it difficult to believe that a T2 couldn't detect it, IF it were properly set up and adjusted. Something doesn't sound right. I don't have a T2, but I do have a F75 and I believe it to be much deeper than the CZ70 that I used to own.

 

[bazinga]

When I think of top machines, a T2 has never once come to mind. I think of it just like your CZ6, a decent mid range option.

 

[GreenMeanie]

Allot of "what if's" here?
Was your friend running his detector to hot?
Was he running it to conservative?
Where the moons aligned?
How long has he had it ETC ETC.
I hunt different machine's and they all behave a little different. I try to use the detector that will perform the best in a certain area.
I guess you where running the 8" coil on your fisher? and the dealer was running 11" coil?
Probably got masked from iron around it and your smaller coil could get between it.

 

[Bryannagirl]

The main reason you see a steady response on a pure analog meter an variable response on digital has to do the how the two different technologies work. But in simple terms all analog meters ar damped - think of it like a shock on your car it smooths out all the bumps and gives a smoother signal. Digital is like having no shocks so you feel (or see) all the bumps (or changes in VDI). To some people this is ok because it lets them see more clearly what the detector is seeing. For instance if there is iron near by you would hi and low numbers hi from coin and low for iron. The truth is even digital signals are dampened. Sampling and averaging are both used to steady responses to a usable level just most people that buy digital want a very responsive machine so the dampening is minor compared to an analog meter. Now one other fact some older machines with analog meters also had variable audio which was not dampened this like the best of both worlds since the audio was very responsive to changes while the meter helped average all the noise to one probable indication.

Hope that helps

Bryanna

I prefer not to mention the brand. I don't want to start a detector war. He did have a doublle D coil, the standard size that comes with his detector. The mineralized ground conditions in the San Francisco parks can be a challenge. When I ground ballance my CZ6 my knob is turned all the way up to 1 or 2. Could this "hot" ground be troublesome to some machines? Another thing I've noticed is the stability of the older analog machines over the digital machines. My needle on my old CZ will lock on a good target, where as the newer digital machines will sometimes bounce numbers on the display screen. What
causes this inconsistency with target I.D. on the digital machines? Two weekends ago I locked on a good target with my CZ that was a solid 8 inches deep. The needle never fluctuated, it locked right on the target. To my surprize out pops a 1908-S indian head penny...

 

[gmanlight]

It can as simple as hot soil , were the multi freq CZ would have edge.

 

[woof!]

We're talking about one particular target at a depth of something like 6-7 inches in ground with moderate mineralization and who knows what else what's down there that you can't see with your eye. Furthermore, we don't know how the machines were set up. Discriminators lose stuff and sometimes it's the stuff you were hoping to find, it's how discriminators are. In all metals mode, ground and/or targets off to the side can hide a target you're looking for.

The CZ and the T2 are both very good machines, but with very different response characteristics. There will always be targets one finds that the other doesn't.

--Dave J.

 

[gleaner1]

If the T whatever had a concentric coil, it would have hit hard on the shallow dime.

 

[woof!]

And if the CZ'd had a DD, it would have missed the dime.

Just kidding! 'Spoze Gleaner's just jerking my chain to see if I'll bark.

Nobody knows why the T2 missed that specific dime (which to correct Gleaner, was not "shallow", it was midrange). In any case, the T2 design was optimized for DD's, there are no T2-compatible concentrics, and I don't expect there ever will be.

--Dave J.

 

[Newfiehunter]

When I think of top machines, a T2 has never once come to mind. I think of it just like your CZ6, a decent mid range option.

I own a CZ5 which is very similar to the CZ6...It is more than "decent"......It is a very capable machine which can keep up with the best "newer" digital machines out there....

 

[bazinga]

I own a CZ5 which is very similar to the CZ6...It is more than "decent"......It is a very capable machine which can keep up with the best "newer" digital machines out there....

You keep on telling yourself that. If it could, people wouldn't have upgraded to the newer machines.

Plus, you replied to a post of mine from 2010. Nice!

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

I've always discovered that you can't say much of anything negative to the cult that feel the more they spend the better the detector. Seriously, how many people have you seen that have to have an E-Trac...fine..then a normal digger isn't good enough so they have to go buy a Lesche. Next comes the Sunray inline probe. I'm not saying everyone is like that but a bunch seem to be. If you get better performance out of something cheaper...lord help us. They always feel the need to justify to themselves why they spent so much.