Original photos Stone Maps

[cactusjumper]

Joe. I look at the stones as a primitive work of art. Not a treasure map. Travis had a little stone factory going. I look at the ground map as the key.

Frank,

That's interesting........The key to what?

Do you believe that "a primitive work of art" is for the art itself, or that it has some practical meaning?

I guess both of my questions are really the same thing.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Azquester]

Joe. I look at the stones as a primitive work of art. Not a treasure map. Travis had a little stone factory going. I look at the ground map as the key.

You're right Frank. True Ground Maps are the real deal. And that's where you'll find them. At ground level on the ground in bedrock. What's truly interesting is I've gone forward from the boundries of the artwork we call the Peralta Stone Maps and moved on from those simple symbols more than any paper, parchment or skin maps could possibly tell. I don't claim to have found any Treasure unless a Geo Physical VLF survey that reports a target at sixty feet of non-ferrous metal qualify's as such. (At my first mining / treasure site)

I've only discovered a site of one possible Treasure using many types of systems including some similar symbols from those primitive works of an old fart. The fact is if there is a true paper map it can only get you so far anyway. Past that you better be ready for a life time of travel and photography. That's the only way it can be found by a paper map.

You have to know the basics and know where to find them at the end of the trails.

To bad, I'm the only A-hole that knows this and no one would work with me nor I with them.

I fell like the Maytag repairman.

 

[EarnieP]

“If you're lonely when you're alone, you're in bad company.”
Jean-Paul Sartre

“The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline towards the religion of solitude.”
Aldous Huxley
-----------------
Sometimes it's good to feel like the Maytag repairman, Wild Bill.

“There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more”
George Gordon Byron

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker,

Mitchell's version (and other versions) indicate the Horse/Priest stone was found first. There was considerable () time between that discovery and the discovery of the trail stones.

I'm working from memory here but I believe the narrative tells us the Horse stone was found between Christmas and New Years of 1949. Feel free to fill in exact details. Travis took the stone home to study and learn from it. Time passed (weeks to months) as Travis learned and waited for additional vacation time to continue the search. When he returned to ultimately find the trail stones, Arizona was in its hot season. He speaks of the blazing sun, sweat, and heat of the desert. There isn't sufficient time between late December 1949 and end of March 1950 (print date of photo) to take all that in. To me, its a red flag liberty was taken with the time line.

Linda:

I don't really see the variance in Mitchell's account, as told in "Superstition Treasures", as a red flag liberty at all.
He never claimed to be present when any of the stones were found and thus I think it's safe to say that he also was relying on his memory of what Travis told him.
In fact, at the very beginning of the chapter you have referenced, he does not say what year the first stone was found....

View attachment Superstition Treasures ch 4.bmp

Insofar as any details are concerned, I wasn't there either, but suspect from what I have read in the various accounts made available so far, is that Travis found the H/P stone in Dec. of 1948. If a similarly dated photo or negative of the H/P stone can be found, especially one from a prior series of photos (eg. early 1949), that will answer the question.

 

[kanabite]

You're right Frank. True Ground Maps are the real deal. And that's where you'll find them. At ground level on the ground in bedrock. What's truly interesting is I've gone forward from the boundries of the artwork we call the Peralta Stone Maps and moved on from those simple symbols more than any paper, parchment or skin maps could possibly tell. I don't claim to have found any Treasure unless a Geo Physical VLF survey that reports a target at sixty feet of non-ferrous metal qualify's as such. (At my first mining / treasure site)

I've only discovered a site of one possible Treasure using many types of systems including some similar symbols from those primitive works of an old fart. The fact is if there is a true paper map it can only get you so far anyway. Past that you better be ready for a life time of travel and photography. That's the only way it can be found by a paper map.

You have to know the basics and know where to find them at the end of the trails.

To bad, I'm the only A-hole that knows this and no one would work with me nor I with them.

I fell like the Maytag repairman.

Really?An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


No follow up on the target ?


I guess maybe a guy might need more than just the "basics"to find out for himself for sure .


Please carry on , I have no dog in this fight . I liked the Bob Collins profile /personality better. He was a little easier to have a conversation with,
at least it seemed that way .

 

[kanabite]

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http://library.seg.org/doi/abs/10.1190/1.1442820

 

[Hal Croves]

i tried to see the break in the heart, looks to me like the heart is not broke
in this 1950 img, and you can see that the heart is broken in the bumper img
is there a date for the bumper img

forgot a pic

View attachment 1277593 View attachment 1277594

View attachment 1277589 View attachment 1277590

Just to confuse things a little more, have a look at this drawing from an article on the stones dated 1983, done by Kearney Egerton for the AZR. While most of it looks correct, the Heart Stone is noticeably different. Not sure why thou.

View attachment 1286106

View attachment 1286107

View attachment 1286108
​

 

[Hal Croves]

It looks like in June 8th to the 16th (edit) of 1968, the Peralta Stone were for sale.
Anyone recognize the number?
The timing is strange.

View attachment 1286138

AZR
​

 

[sdcfia]

It looks like in July & June of 1968, the Peralta Stone were for sale.
Anyone recognize the number?
The timing is strange.

View attachment 1286138

AZR
​

Age is right. Don't know if the phone number has been hers since 1968. From public records (602 was original AZ area code):

Ruth Eileene Cochrane age 88Also known as: R Cochrane From: Phoenix, AZ9412 10th Ave,Phoenix, AZ 85041 (602) 276-4453Previous Addresses: 29178 Cr #22W, Phoenix, AZ 85020,
29178 Cr 22w, Phoenix, AZ 85020

 

[Hal Croves]

Age is right. Don't know if the phone number has been hers since 1968. From public records (602 was original AZ area code):

Ruth Eileene Cochrane age 88Also known as: R Cochrane From: Phoenix, AZ9412 10th Ave,Phoenix, AZ 85041 (602) 276-4453Previous Addresses: 29178 Cr #22W, Phoenix, AZ 85020,
29178 Cr 22w, Phoenix, AZ 85020

Boyd's wife. The stones were eventually donated to the AMM and placed in the care of Lee Hammons..

 

[cw0909]

that phone#, tried to sell the stones on these dates too
and yes it is still registered to the addy posted for the cochrane
maybe something more here about that, have to look and see
The Peralta Stone Maps

text search of, peralta stone maps 276-4453
of the OCR Text
PERALTA Stone Maps. 276-4453 call from 6-9 D.m.
Issue Date: Saturday, June 8, 1968
Arizona Republic from Phoenix, Arizona · Page 31
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/20208455/

Issue Date: Monday, June 10, 1968
Arizona Republic from Phoenix, Arizona · Page 41
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/117526765/

Issue Date: Sunday, June 16, 1968
Arizona Republic from Phoenix, Arizona · Page 60
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/118360898/

 

[cw0909]

interesting

 

[Garry]

It looks like in June 8th to the 16th (edit) of 1968, the Peralta Stone were for sale.
Anyone recognize the number?
The timing is strange.

View attachment 1286138

AZR
​

Hal,

I have never seen the want ad advertising the Peralta Stones. Nice find! I am sure it was Boyd Cochran who placed the ad, who would have been acting in behalf of MOEL Corporation. MOEL owned the stones at this point in time and there were several other individuals still involved to one extent or another with MOEL.

So I would believe Cochran was not acting solely on his own volition.

I think you and the other posters have this portion of the story correct.

The only thing I would suggest is that you do further research into your statement that “The stones were eventually donated to the AMM (I’m assuming you are trying to indicate the Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum) and placed in the care of Lee Hammons”

I know this is the Kraig Robert’s story but I believe you would do well to do your "own" research.

There are images of letters from Hammons, newspaper articles, conversations with Ray Grant, etc. most on line. (I know Ray found some documents that showed the Hammons connection to the Flagg Foundation in the time period while Hammons was serving as the director of the Museum).

Garry

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal,

I have never seen the want ad advertising the Peralta Stones. Nice find! I am sure it was Boyd Cochran who placed the ad, who would have been acting in behalf of MOEL Corporation. MOEL owned the stones at this point in time and there were several other individuals still involved to one extent or another with MOEL.

So I would believe Cochran was not acting solely on his own volition.

I think you and the other posters have this portion of the story correct.

The only thing I would suggest is that you do further research into your statement that “The stones were eventually donated to the AMM (I’m assuming you are trying to indicate the Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum) and placed in the care of Lee Hammons”

I know this is the Kraig Robert’s story but I believe you would do well to do your "own" research.

There are images of letters from Hammons, newspaper articles, conversations with Ray Grant, etc. most on line. (I know Ray found some documents that showed the Hammons connection to the Flagg Foundation in the time period while Hammons was serving as the director of the Museum).

Garry

Garry,

Hope all is well with you and Carol,

One can't help but wonder what would have happened on your visits with the Tumlinson's if you had a TV show in your quiver. Ryan is a nice guy, but he's not Garry and Carol.......not even close. Something else brought the family into the game. I had multiple phone calls trying to bring me into the fold, but they only caused doubts in my mind.

On the other hand, I do look forward to seeing what develops.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Looks like all the Cochranes are deceased:

Boyd K= 1994
Ruth= 2004
Eileen= 2013
Elma A.= 2005
Jack M= 1987

All the phone numbers associated with all the names listed are disconnected. I have a couple of younger Cochranes floating around, but still trying to contact.

Mike

 

[Ponteach]

...

 

[somehiker]

Just a guess, but.....
Molds were made and multiple copies cast by Richard Robinson.
There are several sets of these copies in private hands today.
How many of the current owners heard about and purchased their copies through this add ?
Perhaps to help raise funds for the AMMM.

 

[cw0909]

about skin maps

found some info about a skin map, not the skin/hide map of the
stone maps, has some cool info on skin maps

skin
http://www.bl.uk/eblj/1996articles/pdf/article4.pdf

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SKIN MAP
The artefact is significant in three respects:
as a rare example of an Amerindian (or Amerindian-influenced) map on skin;
as evidence that maps were at least occasionally used in negotiations
leading to land sales and land cessions by Amerindians to whites;
and as a source of otherwise unknown information concerning settlements
in the Wabashvalley in 1774-5.
Indians in many parts of America are known to have made and
used maps on skin. The earliest reported example dates from 1540,
when Francisco Vasquez de Coronado found a 'skin' (probably buffalo robe)
with a 'painting' or 'sketch' on it of the seven Zuni pueblos and of the
route that would appear to have linked them.

a section of it zoomed some

 

[Hal Croves]

interesting

I guess the artist intentionally took a little creative license with the heart. Why I am not sure because at this point, the stones had tape covering key features and if you wanted to see what was under the tape, the fee was $75.00. Could simply be that or there is another version of the heart stone.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

I have never seen the want ad advertising the Peralta Stones. Nice find! I am sure it was Boyd Cochran who placed the ad, who would have been acting in behalf of MOEL Corporation. MOEL owned the stones at this point in time and there were several other individuals still involved to one extent or another with MOEL.

So I would believe Cochran was not acting solely on his own volition.

I think you and the other posters have this portion of the story correct.

The only thing I would suggest is that you do further research into your statement that “The stones were eventually donated to the AMM (I’m assuming you are trying to indicate the Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum) and placed in the care of Lee Hammons”

I know this is the Kraig Robert’s story but I believe you would do well to do your "own" research.

There are images of letters from Hammons, newspaper articles, conversations with Ray Grant, etc. most on line. (I know Ray found some documents that showed the Hammons connection to the Flagg Foundation in the time period while Hammons was serving as the director of the Museum).

Garry

Gary,
First I want to say that I never honestly appreciated the level of your research until spending time in the Davis collection a few weeks back. Just an amazing effort and the collection pulled together by G. Davis is a researchers dream. And... Davis is a first class gentlemen.

I am not sure thou why you describe this as the KR story because, among other sources, my reference is the AZR.

View attachment 1286800
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Please let me know if you have additional insight that you would be willing to post. Did it not happen this way?

View attachment 1286801

Lee Hammons
​