Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigdogdad]

The reporter is still working on the article as far as I know. I am not going to push him on it. When it is published I will put a link to it on here. I have found myself preoccupied with a project that is keeping me pretty busy. Once I am over the hump and can see the finish time on it I am going to go full bore again with the officials. I am going to go over the head of the regional FDOT official and talk to his boss who is head of the State of Florida. I will go to Gov Scott if that's what it takes. If you doubt me, just watch.

I will discuss dowsing as it pertains to this or my other stories. I am not that interested in convincing non-believers by talk, when the treasure comes out of the ground, many will be converted.

Seeker 41--Thanks for the support.

 

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[Denniss]

I also think it would spoil the suspense as to whether or not the treasure is there. Is this a stupid way to think? Maybe.

I can't understand the suspense angle. I would want to know if it is there or not. I would have already done 20-30 cores and had my answer. If it was positive, chips of silver, I would proceed, if I found rusted steel, cloth, plastic and a 4 foot cavity, I'd assume it was a buried car and move on.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Allthough I am new to TN I have been involved in my own treasure story for 25 years. I have tried over and over to find a way to put myself into a position where I don't need any of the treasure. I want to use it to help others. I know this may sound korny and perhaps has been said by too many people on TN, I mean it from the center of my heart. I feel I can improve the good karma that I may need by wanting to help others. It is up for debate if there are any "Gold Gods" protecting treasure, but I can guarantee you a lot of people believe there is.

As I have now decided to go whole-heartedly after whatever treasure I can find, I need to be careful of how I go about it. I have done nothing illegal while pursuing the silver at Rocky Bluff. If I were to get the permit to dig and were to be allowed to keep some of what may be found, I don't want it taken away. I have heard stories of people finding treasure and then it comes to light that they did something illegal in the process of finding and recovering the treasure causing it to be taken away. I beleive I may know the whereabouts of so much treasure that I don't want to ruin my chances to get the state to cooperate and perhaps assist in future expeditions.

I certainly have the means and know how to detect or drill at this site. Unfortunately you are not allowed to do this without a permit. I do not know how long this rule has been in effect. In the long distant past a device was used by others to determine what and where something was buried. It was determined that there was no ferrous metal at all. As this was over 20 years ago I don't mind letting it be known.

I have now been informed there may be others that might not be so concerned about the rules. This has caused a sense of urgency on my part. I will figure out a way to do this dig LEGALLY ASAP.

 

[jeff of pa]

Allthough I am new to TN I have been involved in my own treasure story for 25 years. I have tried over and over to find a way to put myself into a position where I don't need any of the treasure. I want to use it to help others. I know this may sound korny and perhaps has been said by too many people on TN, I mean it from the center of my heart. I feel I can improve the good karma that I may need by wanting to help others. It is up for debate if there are any "Gold Gods" protecting treasure, but I can guarantee you a lot of people believe there is.

As I have now decided to go whole-heartedly after whatever treasure I can find, I need to be careful of how I go about it. I have done nothing illegal while pursuing the silver at Rocky Bluff. If I were to get the permit to dig and were to be allowed to keep some of what may be found, I don't want it taken away. I have heard stories of people finding treasure and then it comes to light that they did something illegal in the process of finding and recovering the treasure causing it to be taken away. I beleive I may know the whereabouts of so much treasure that I don't want to ruin my chances to get the state to cooperate and perhaps assist in future expeditions.

I certainly have the means and know how to detect or drill at this site. Unfortunately you are not allowed to do this without a permit. I do not know how long this rule has been in effect. In the long distant past a device was used by others to determine what and where something was buried. It was determined that there was no ferrous metal at all. As this was over 20 years ago I don't mind letting it be known.

I have now been informed there may be others that might not be so concerned about the rules. This has caused a sense of urgency on my part. I will figure out a way to do this dig LEGALLY ASAP.

Sorry I Still have a problem with any entity, who would insist you drill first.

anyone who would have you risk destroying something valuable,
rather then let you dig in a carefull manner should be fired from their position.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You know, as crazy as core drilling for things like this seems, there are other "professionals" who do it. While I was talking to a paleontologist last year he mentioned others who would core drill to look for pieces of fossilized bones in the dirt. It seems crazy to possibly ruin a perfect specimen forever like that. I guess they would rather repair the damage than never dig.

 

[Hot zone]

You can look a long time in the wrong place!

 

[Bigdogdad]

I have been on another site making a few posts. It is the SWAMP GOLD thread under the legends forum. I just started to read the thread. It is extremely long. I had posted on the thread without reading it first. I did find some interesting stuff that may help me with my pursuit of the pirate silver. On page 13 on post #245 and #255 someone refers to the "Treasure Trove Law". Does anyone know if that would apply to buried silver from pirates on state owned land? I also consider the treasure "abandoned" as there is no known entity that buried it or will there ever probably be. I plan on contacting my lawyer friend tomorrow about this law. Any help, please?

 

[Salvor6]

"Treasure trove law" is what they have in England where the finder gets half of what he finds and the land owner gets half. Also the state gets the first rights to the treasure and they have to pay the finder and property owner fair market value.
The pirate treasure is definitely considered abandoned.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I want to know if florida has a Treasure Trove Law. I have told the state that I am convinced that there is pirate treasure at the bridge. I would consider it "abandoned". I think it would be negligent on their part to ignore what I have told them and let it sit in the ground waiting to be dug up illegally. I will be talking to my lawyer tomorrow.

 

[Denniss]

I want to know if florida has a Treasure Trove Law. I have told the state that I am convinced that there is pirate treasure at the bridge. I would consider it "abandoned". I think it would be negligent on their part to ignore what I have told them and let it sit in the ground waiting to be dug up illegally. I will be talking to my lawyer tomorrow.

These folks would be the ones to contact


267.031 Division of Historical Resources; powers and duties.

(o) Protect and administer historical resources abandoned on state-owned lands or on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division may issue permits for survey and exploration activities to identify historical resources and may issue permits for excavation and salvage activities to recover historical resources. The division may issue permits for archaeological excavation for scientific or educational purposes on state-owned lands or on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division may also issue permits for exploration and salvage of historic shipwreck sites by commercial salvors on state-owned sovereignty submerged lands. The division shall adopt rules to administer the issuance of permits for all such activities. In addition, the division shall adopt rules to administer the transfer of objects recovered by commercial salvors under permit in exchange for recovery services provided to the state.


Good Luck with the bureaucracy

 

[Bigdogdad]

I had contacted them at the beginining. Their reply was that they would prefer that it stays in the ground. They do not want to have to deal with it. They did not seem the least bit interested in helping me. I have been given the same advice as yours in the last few days. I am going to contact them again. I had a copy of the above statute in my paperwork given to the FDOT. The officials can do this if they want to. I have to figure out a way to convince them it is in their bests interests to grant me a permit. Thanks for the advice. I am considering whether the threat of a lawsuit might get their attention. People vs State.

 

[rovnrbl53]

Here's some ammunition. From what I can determine, FL is running roughly a $2billion budget shortfall, losing 4400 state jobs, losing $500million in federal education funding match because not enough state funds to get the match. Surely a treasure recovery even with a 50/50 split would be beneficial to the state and citizens of FL....in fact, might even save some of the jobs of the very officials you're dealing with. Money talks.

Good luck!!
Florida state budget - Sunshine Review Florida budget shortfall: Lawmakers warned of $2 billion-plus budget shortfall - Orlando Sentinel


Florida state budgetGF
Florida operates on an annual budget cycle. Its fiscal year begins July 1.
The Florida State Legislature passed the $69.9 billion FY2013 Florida state budget on March 9, 2012.[SUP][1][/SUP] Gov. Rick Scott signed the budget into law on April 17, 2012, after vetoing $142.7 million in spending.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Florida has a total state debt of approximately $139,156,956,000, when calculated by adding the total of outstanding official debt, pension and other post-employment benefits (OPEB) liabilities, Unemployment Trust Fund loans, and the budget gap. [SUP][3][/SUP]
See also: The Florida State Budget on State Budget Solutions

2011 State spending & deficit in billions[SUP][4][/SUP] ​
Total spending ​	Pension ​	Health care ​	Education ​	Welfare ​	Protection ​	Transport ​	Debt ​	Budget gap ​
$59.1	$6.7	$21.7	$9.4	$7.7	$4.9	$5.9	$39.4	$3.5

2011 Local spending & deficit in billions[SUP][4][/SUP] ​
Total spending ​	Pension ​	Health care ​	Education ​	Welfare ​	Protection ​	Transport ​	Debt ​
$95	$1.2	$9.7	$34.9	$3.6	$12.7	$7.9	$95

[edit] FY2013 State Budget
The Florida State Legislature passed the $69.9 billion FY2013 Florida state budget on March 9, 2012.[SUP][5][/SUP] The budget passed by the legislature can be found here. Gov. Rick Scott signed the budget into law on April 17, 2012, after vetoing $142.7 million in spending.[SUP][6][/SUP] The veto list can found here.
A highlight of the budget is a $ increase in K-12 education funding, which was a priority of the governor.[SUP][7][/SUP] The additional funding bring the state funds to education to a total of $17.2 billion, equal to an increase of $150 per student.[SUP][5][/SUP]
Other budget highlights include:

• closing six prisons;[SUP][5][/SUP]
• eliminating 4,400 jobs, nearly 3.6 percent of the state’s work force;[SUP][5][/SUP]
• Cuts Medicaid payments to hospitals by 7.5 percent;[SUP][5][/SUP]
• Raises child abuse investigators’ pay by $4,000 a year;[SUP][5][/SUP]
• Increases Medicaid budget by $305 million for new cases;[SUP][5][/SUP]
• Pay freeze for state workers for 6th year in a row[SUP][5][/SUP]

[edit] Legislative proposed budget
On Feb. 28, 2012, legislative leaders announced that the House and Senate reached a compromise on the state budget, including using $300 million from higher education reserves, and that a conference committee would be convened to finalize the details of the budget.[SUP][8][/SUP] The conference committee reached an agreement with both chambers of the legislature passed HB 5001 on April 6, 2012, and passing it on to the governor.[SUP][9][/SUP] The governor said he did not anticipate making anywhere near the $615 million in budget vetoes that he made the previous year.[SUP][10][/SUP]
Senate's proposed budget
The head of the Senate's Budget Subcommittee on Health and Human Services Appropriations proposed a $70.5 billion general fund on Feb 8, 2012. It would slash general revenue spending on Medicaid by $218.7 million and cut $86.5 million from adult mental health and substance abuse treatment programs. The House and Governor's budgets increased funding in these areas to restore cuts made last year.[SUP][11][/SUP]
The Senate passed its $71 billion budget, SB 7050, on Feb., 2012. The budget as passed raises college tuition by 3 percent and permits universities to raise tuition up to 15 percent. The budget provides no across-the-board pay raises for state workers for the sixth year in a row and the elimination of 3,800 full-time jobs in state government, most of which are unfilled. It also reserves $2.2 billion for emergencies and contingencies.[SUP][5][/SUP]
The Senate vote sets up negotiations with the House over the next 10 days to seek a budget compromise to bring the 2012 session to a timely end by March 9.[SUP][5][/SUP]
House of Representatives proposed budget
On Jan. 27, 2012, the Republican-controlled House released its $69.2 billion proposed spending plan, HB 5001, which was $3 billion more than the governor's proposal in part because it rejects some of the extensive cuts in health care programs that he recommended.[SUP][12][/SUP] The House passed its plan on Feb. 9, 2012.[SUP][13][/SUP]
Education
The House budget increases spending on public schools by more than $1 billion, which is 2.27% increase in per-student funding. It sets aside nearly $400 million to provide construction money for universities, community colleges and for charter schools. It includes no money for school districts. It recommended an 8 percent hike in higher education tuition, whereas the the governor's budget kept tuition flat.[SUP][12][/SUP]
Environment
The House budget includes $35 million for Everglades restoration, although the Senate budget does not. The House budget also does not include the governor's $15 million for the state’s land-conservation program, Florida Forever, which the Senate also did not include that, either.[SUP][13][/SUP]
Cuts
The House budget includes the closing of driver license officers, a reduction in the number of probation officers, and even the elimination of a handful of investigators who handle arson and consumer fraud cases.[SUP][12][/SUP]
Governor's proposed budget
Highlights of the governor's proposed budget as outlined by his administration can be found here.
Florida Gov. Rick Scott proposed a $66.4 billion budget that includes a $1 billion increase in K-12 education funding despite the fact that lawmakers must address a $2 billion shortfall.[SUP][14][/SUP] The governor hopes to get the money for schools by cutting Medicaid payments to hospitals. The proposed budget cuts 4,500 state jobs, raises monthly medical premiums for highly-paid state employees as well as lawmakers. It also continues privatization of the prison system despite legal challenges to that plan.[SUP][15][/SUP] The proposed budget can be found here.
In October 2011, state economists predicted that the state's tax collections will fall short by $1.3 billion to $1.7 billion over the next two years.[SUP][16][/SUP] That is a big departure from forecasts by Florida's Office of Economic and Demographic Research in August 2011 that the state could see a surplus of $300 million in FY2013. At the same time, economists cautioned that forecast was shaky because growth over the next year could be undermined by recent economic woes and said it was likely that the forecast would be revised downward.[SUP][17][/SUP] That became reality when the revised forecast was released the following month, with predictions of a deficit, not a surplus.[SUP][18][/SUP]
Lawmakers requested that state agencies submit proposals for FY2013 that show 10 percent budget cuts by September 2011.[SUP][17][/SUP] Some agencies, however, requested more money, not less. For example, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services requested $7.2 million for new firefighting equipment.[SUP][19][/SUP]
The Legislature also plans on setting aside at least $1 billion in a reserve fund for emergencies.[SUP][19][/SUP]
State economists said growth in Florida's once-exploding Medicaid program is slowing and predicted Medicaid spending will increase by $1.3 billion, or 6.3 percent, next fiscal year. That translates to the state likely paying an additional $900 million more in FY2013 than it did in FY2012, for a total of nearly $5.2 billion spent on Medicaid in FY2013.[SUP][20][/SUP] Gov. Scott said he hadn’t anticipated a FY2013 deficit, partly because he expected to get a federal waiver letting the state expand its use of managed care for recipients of Medicaid, but the federal government has not granted the necessary permission for the waiver.[SUP][21][/SUP] Projected Medicaid costs for FY2013 are at $21.6 billion.[SUP][15][/SUP]
Florida will lose approximately $550 million in federal education stimulus funds, according to the governor.[SUP][22][/SUP]

 

[rovnrbl53]

Sorry about the double post. Additionally, you could push this with you local state representative and state senator and ultimately, the governor. I believe the governor is fairly progressive - he might be interested in an unusual way to help balance his budget.
www.myfloridahouse.gov
www.[B]flsenate[/B].gov/senators/

 

[Denniss]

I had contacted them at the beginining. Their reply was that they would prefer that it stays in the ground. They do not want to have to deal with it. They did not seem the least bit interested in helping me. I have been given the same advice as yours in the last few days. I am going to contact them again. I had a copy of the above statute in my paperwork given to the FDOT. The officials can do this if they want to. I have to figure out a way to convince them it is in their bests interests to grant me a permit. Thanks for the advice. I am considering whether the threat of a lawsuit might get their attention. People vs State.

You're dealing with bureaucrats, they don't have problems, they go to work, shuffle some papers and go home. There is no reason for them to want to get involved with this. Worse case scenario for them, is if there is treasure. Do nothing, don't rock the boat, don't issue a permit. Whoever signs that permit is going to catch it from his boss, "What were you thinking, see what you started" etc. Can you give them a reason why it would be to their benefit to sign off and give you a permit. Making a congressman or the governor happy is the only good reason for them to sign off a permit.

If you are in your 20's a lawsuit could work, otherwise, you'll be long gone before it is settled

 

[jeff of pa]

You're dealing with bureaucrats, they don't have problems, they go to work, shuffle some papers and go home. There is no reason for them to want to get involved with this. Worse case scenario for them, is if there is treasure. Do nothing, don't rock the boat, don't issue a permit. Whoever signs that permit is going to catch it from his boss, "What were you thinking, see what you started" etc. Can you give them a reason why it would be to their benefit to sign off and give you a permit. Making a congressman or the governor happy is the only good reason for them to sign off a permit.

If you are in your 20's a lawsuit could work, otherwise, you'll be long gone before it is settled

I Don't even think that'll work.

Find someone who can claim they are a Minority to file for you.
when they are turned down, all they need do is contact the news,
mention discrimination .
you's will have your permission shortly & will be allowed to keep all you dig on top of it.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I have had a meeting in the past with our local State Representative. He was not sure how he could help, but at least he knows about it. My lawyer did not seem real receptive to going forward with this. As I don't really have money to pay him, I don't think he will help. I am meeting another lawyer friend this weekend. He may do it just for the attention it will bring him.

I left messages today with the two top Florida State Archaeologists. I had spoken with them at the begining of this quest. I am going to tell them that they need to issue a permit to dig up the treasure before someone else dig's it up without permission. I am going to tell them that there is a whole bunch of people that know the location and that it needs to be dug up and put in a safe place. I am going to tell them that it would be irresponsible on their part to ignore me and deny the permit. If there is pirate silver there it does not belong to them, it belongs to the tax paying citizens of Florida. It is their duty to protect it and they would be reponsible if it comes up missing. (A big empty hole shows up one morning).

I have repeatedly stated that I am trying to be the good citizen and go by the laws and books. I have now let the dog out of the house (cat out of the bag). There is no turning back now. I am taking care of a lot of loose ends and projects right now. I am getting ready to come out swinging. Even though I have warned them, they will not know what hit them.

Hopefully there will not be a bunch of junk/trash at this spot. It's a chance I am willing to take. I might become the Geraldo Rivera of treasure hunting. I will take that over the Rick Savage of treasure hunting.

Jeff of PA-- In case you didn't notice, guys like you and I are becoming a minority.

 

[Chase-N-Dreams]

I know you mentioned that you would contact the News Stations, Have you tried that approach yet Also, what about someone with the Army Corp of Engineers?? Do you have any connections with your Army Background?? Best Wishes!!! Maybe you need a Single Female from SW Florida to attend one of those meetings with you......There's your Minority......

 

[Bigdogdad]

Are you volunteering? I am dealing with guys. If I had to get the permit from a female I would have had it a month and a half ago. The guys I am dealing with have no guts. They are afraid they might get in "trouble". I called the state archaeologist again today. He did not return my call. I have not contacted a news station yet. I am meeting a lawyer friend Saturday. He is the kind you want or your side.

I have about 10 things going on right now. Its hard to focus on just one. I need a PR person.

I have no current Engineer connections.

 

[maipenrai]

Yes, you have really let the cat out of the bag! Seems you have contacted just about everyone in Fla about this. If there was any pirate gold, it will soon be a beautiful landscaped area. Of course, telling everyone there is pirate gold buried next to the road, is not going to bring a lot of believers to your camp.

Almost sounds like another member of this site, that has told every official and newspaper in his state, about his find, not the best way to keep a secret.

Lawyer not wanting to go forward with this? Most lawyers do want money, for their work. Sounds like you really dont have a lawyer. If you find one that will work for free, you will probably be getting just what you pay for.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Let me know if you think there is someone I have not contacted. Just for the record, I said pirate silver. Your right, TELLING evertone will not make them believers, digging it up will. Did I say anything about trying to keep it a secret? No I don't have a lawyer, I have TWO lawyers. PM me and maybe I will give you their names. Lawyers don't work for free, but they do work for a commision.

In case you did not read it on here, I have written a book. I plan on selling the book. People have to know about it to buy it. Publicity brings it to the public. I have a strategy. But I want to thank you for your concern.

I have been told repeatedly that I may not get any of the silver if it is there. If I find it I can make money off the story. Is that hard to understand? This is not the first time this concept has been used. Now with the internet you can go global overnight. Of course this can be a double-edged sword. I have never been one to be afraid of taking a chance.