prospective

[Springfield]

Don Jose:
I have read a couple of stories with elements similar to what you describe.One,as I recall,also included a spiral "staircase" descending downward and a "throne room" of some kind.Another includes a near vertical shaft,from which a wind blows,strong enough to take the hat from your head.Takes a windy day though,I would think,and that one may have steps cut into the rock as well.
Who knows? There are so many hard to reach places and so many holes out there to explore.
Black helicopters? I have yet to see any,although I have probably seen a few of other colours every day I have been out there.
Military,Sheriffs Dept.,News,Medivac,SAR,civilian and even a SRP Huey doing a very slow and low level inspection of the power lines.
At times it can be aggravating.

Regards:SH.

Old letters were found in an elderly lady's closet in Missouri that describe a site shown to white guys by a native back a hundred or so years ago. I spoke with Babcock, who had the letters, on the phone a couple times back in the '90's. Interesting guy. It's all about the Aztecs.

http://www.amazon.com/Chicomoztoc-s...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318079233&sr=1-1

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies Gentlemen: It should come as no surprise to find Aztec data, symbols, and artifacts in the Superstitions, after all, it was on their migration path from Israel via Aztlan.

Israel -> Aztlan -> Superstitions -> Mexico city. Unfortunately it is a long jump from Aztlan to the Superstitions and quien sabe how many generations.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[somehiker]

A lengthy migration,over many generations....don't know about Israel,though.
Both caves and stone structures seemed to have played a large part in the Aztec journey.
Adversity as well,according to the chroniclers.
What route may refugees from the Spanish Entradas and disease have taken?
Even refugees from Pre-Spanish Aztec expansion and depredations.
Trade routes ?

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

Don Jose:
I have read a couple of stories with elements similar to what you describe.One,as I recall,also included a spiral "staircase" descending downward and a "throne room" of some kind.Another includes a near vertical shaft,from which a wind blows,strong enough to take the hat from your head.Takes a windy day though,I would think,and that one may have steps cut into the rock as well.
Who knows? There are so many hard to reach places and so many holes out there to explore.
Black helicopters? I have yet to see any,although I have probably seen a few of other colours every day I have been out there.
Military,Sheriffs Dept.,News,Medivac,SAR,civilian and even a SRP Huey doing a very slow and low level inspection of the power lines.
At times it can be aggravating.

Regards:SH.

Old letters were found in an elderly lady's closet in Missouri that describe a site shown to white guys by a native back a hundred or so years ago. I spoke with Babcock, who had the letters, on the phone a couple times back in the '90's. Interesting guy. It's all about the Aztecs.

http://www.amazon.com/Chicomoztoc-s...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318079233&sr=1-1

Springfield:
Found this as well........http://thelostdutchman.hubpages.com/hub/Treasure-of-the-Cursed-Superstition-Mountains

Some seems a bit far fetched,but there might be a few truths mixed in with all the rest of it.

Regards:SH.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Morning somehiker: Interesting map which I did not originate. Curious how it happened without any contact from each other.

However his work is infinitely superior to mine.

Notice particularly the Hebrew words along the path of migration, to and including, Mexico city.

The one basic difference between us is the location of "Aztlan".

As I have pointed out Atlantis is located near the junction of the three active plates, the North American, Asian, and North African. Probably as active an region on the Earth as anywhere. This easily explains the destruction of Atlantis which was a giant Caldera, and is still noticeable in the depths.

The extreme outlying remains of Atlantis, as mentioned, became the muddy, reedy, shallows off of the coast of Spain. There were probably semi submerged structural remains still evident which caused the migrating Israelites to remain there to take advantage of the area.

Some where from written, or legendary hand me down stories, the original name of this outlying, settled zone of Atlantis, was corrupted to Aztlan.

Thus, when they migrated further west to the Americas, they carried the legend of their last home land in the remains of Atlantis, as 'the place of the reeds' with them as Aztlan.

Sounds good anyways, before ORO demolishes it. sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

If you can't read these, PM me and I'll send a copy via e-mail

 

[Springfield]

Morning somehiker: Interesting map which I did not originate. Curious how it happened without any contact from each other.

However his work is infinitely superior to mine.

Notice particularly the Hebrew words along the path of migration, to and including, Mexico city.

The one basic difference between us is the location of "Aztlan".

As I have pointed out Atlantis is located near the junction of the three active plates, the North American, Asian, and North African. Probably as active an region on the Earth as anywhere. This easily explains the destruction of Atlantis which was a giant Caldera, and is still noticeable in the depths.

The extreme outlying remains of Atlantis, as mentioned, became the muddy, reedy, shallows off of the coast of Spain. There were probably semi submerged structural remains still evident which caused the migrating Israelites to remain there to take advantage of the area.

Some where from written, or legendary hand me down stories, the original name of this outlying, settled zone of Atlantis, was corrupted to Aztlan.

Thus, when they migrated further west to the Americas, they carried the legend of their last home land in the remains of Atlantis, as 'the place of the reeds' with them as Aztlan.

Sounds good anyways, before ORO demolishes it. sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

That map came from Discovery of Ancient America, by David Allen Deal, an excellent book dealing in depth with the Los Lunas Decalog Stone and also with western hemisphere diffusionism. By the way, Deal offers the idea that the Atlantis legend was an invention of the Phoenicians who wanted the location of North and Central America to remain secret while others looked for the 'Lost Continent' in the ocean west of the Mediteranean.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi springfield, you posted -->By the way, Deal offers the idea that the Atlantis legend was an invention of the Phonecians who wanted the location of North and Central America to remain secret while others looked for the 'Lost Continent' in the ocean west of the Mediteranean.
**********
Top post my friend, but a bit of lingering doubt remains with me. I cannot understand how for world sailers, that would work? Since time immemorial, drunken swabbies have sooner or later talked.

According to the Legend, Atlantis was composed of three rings, - an excellent description of a giant Caldera- and curiously enough, a giant Caldera is more or less just about where legend placed it, in one of the most unstable areas of the World.

Incidentally my hat is off to Deal, an excellent investigator.

OK, your turn ORO.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,
I am breaking my own word to post in this thread, and only because my friend has posted an open invite to reply and I would not let him down. This thread is owned by our friend Blindbowman, and his penchant for deleting threads means that every word, every image, map etc is almost certain to be erased at some point in future. Just so we are all aware of the probabilities.

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

otice particularly the Hebrew words along the path of migration, to and including, Mexico city.

The one basic difference between us is the location of "Aztlan".

As I have pointed out Atlantis is located near the junction of the three active plates, the North American, Asian, and North African. Probably as active an region on the Earth as anywhere. This easily explains the destruction of Atlantis which was a giant Caldera, and is still noticeable in the depths.

The extreme outlying remains of Atlantis, as mentioned, became the muddy, reedy, shallows off of the coast of Spain. There were probably semi submerged structural remains still evident which caused the migrating Israelites to remain there to take advantage of the area.

Some where from written, or legendary hand me down stories, the original name of this outlying, settled zone of Atlantis, was corrupted to Aztlan.

Thus, when they migrated further west to the Americas, they carried the legend of their last home land in the remains of Atlantis, as 'the place of the reeds' with them as Aztlan.

Sounds good anyways, before ORO demolishes it. sigh.
<snip>
...a bit of lingering doubt remains with me. I cannot understand how for world sailers, that would work? Since time immemorial, drunken swabbies have sooner or later talked.

According to the Legend, Atlantis was composed of three rings, - an excellent description of a giant Caldera- and curiously enough, a giant Caldera is more or less just about where legend placed it, in one of the most unstable areas of the World.

Incidentally my hat is off to Deal, an excellent investigator.

OK, your turn ORO.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I have no intention of demolishing your words or theory. You know my problems with theories similar to Deal's, and while I do not own his book (do intend on getting it some time) the theory is not far different from that of other diffusionist versions. The main problems with a mass-migration in ancient times are the lack of supporting evidence of said mass migration. Were there a mass movement of a coherent group of tribal peoples like the Ten Tribes of Israel, we should see very clear DNA relationships, languages which are not a case of having a dozen loan-words from Semitic, but mainly Semitic with some loan words and adoptions from other languages. Diseases, carried from the Old World to the New, should have left an indelible imprint and a resulting immunity among surviving peoples which would have meant less devastation on the arrival of the Europeans after 1492.

Then what about the livestock, sheep, cattle, goats, horses, asses? It seems unlikely that a pastoral people like the ancient Hebrew tribes would have simply abandoned all of them on crossing to a new land.

This doesn't mean that some element from the Lost Tribes did not migrate to the Americas and is connected with the myth of Aztlan, and the remainder of this theory. There are Semitic loan words which are a bit too coincidental. I do not agree that the Los Lunas dekalogue is a version of the Ten Commandments, there are structure problems with that theory and an alternate explanation, but also from a Semitic source so is basically on the right track.

As to the issue of sailors talking, that is absolutely true. Were it not for those ancient sailors talking, we would have almost no ancient documentation of a knowledge of the Americas, but the sailors in question were under penalty of death for talking. Navigational secrets were national secrets, not to be shared with any and all. I am in agreement with Deal that the tale of Atlantis can definitely be traced to Phoenician sources, but not that it was an invention. There is evidence tucked into Plato's words that give away the originators of the story and they are not Egyptian. But to prove that it was the loose lips of tipsy Phoenician sailors we need only read Aristotle's book "On Marvelous Things Heard" which is a collection of stories including what we are referring to. Funny but this book is not included when ancient history is being taught in schools.

I now expect to see everything in this thread will vanish, just a matter of time.
Oroblanco

 

[EE THr]

I wasn't invited, but may I have a turn?


I think there are big problems with the caldera theory.

From what I've read, Atlantis was much, much more than just the "three rings."

There is the large mountain, which is on the island of Atlantis, but not inside the three rings. Then Plato relates that they got some stuff from their "Continent," which was nearby. It is talked about in the sense that it's not someone else's continent, but theirs, or at least not considered to belong to anyone in particular. And the story talks about people living on that continent, in different areas.

Where did all the copper for covering all the buildings in one of the rings come from?

Where did all the gold for covering all the buildings in another of the rings come from?

The story says King Poseidon just went there and built all this stuff---where would he get anything to trade for copper and gold, if they were purchased from somewhere else?

I like Edgar Cayce's spot---the Gulf of Mexico. Lots of copper from the Great Lakes area, lots of gold from the Mother Lode and elsewhere, and from Mexico and possibly South America; plus a continent all around which was unclaimed by any one people, and all kinds of resources. And still an island with three rings surrounded by water, in case of some kind of major attack. And lots of mud flats with reeds and white cranes, too. And possibly Ophir.

Such a perfect spot would be enough to start a war over, and there is written history to indicate that there was a big one someplace other than the Eastern continents. And big enough to destroy an island.

I'm writing this just offhand from memory, so I hope I've gotten the details straight.

 

[Springfield]

....I do not agree that the Los Lunas dekalogue is a version of the Ten Commandments, there are structure problems with that theory and an alternate explanation, but also from a Semitic source so is basically on the right track....

Actually, there is no debate on this issue - it's acknowledged by all that the carvings are an ancient Hebrew version of the Ten Commandments. The age of the carvings is where the discussion rests, and Deal presents strong evidence based on language and alphabet nuances that place the inscriptions BCE.

Of more interest to me are the ruins of a classic Middle Eastern military encampment, including tent dugouts, officers' complex and animal enclosures, found on the top of Hidden Mountain, the small mesa on which the decalog stone rests. Also very intriguing is a petroglyph at the top of the mountain that is clearly demonstrated to be a sky chart of the constellations. Astronomy software has shown this alignment at these coordinates records a solar eclipse that occurred September 15, 107 BCE.

Hidden Mountain, like other 'shouldn't be' sites, structures and artifacts, is probably easier to label as a hoax or to ignore altogether, rather than to explain its rightful place in history. At least this site is not just a rumor, but is written and built in stone for all to see.

 

[Blindbowman]

well that did not go well .. back at home .. she blew her cookies about 78 miles from here .. the trany cooler bracket puncherd the ratiotor and she 320 degree .. then her thermosat stuck and it only got worse from there ..
i use over 50 gallons of water trying to get her off 81 and i did get her off 81 , but she is still 48 miles away .. i got to have her towed home tomorrow .. i dont know she broke the alternator belt i has a new spare and i but it on the heavy duty one , it lasted about 6 miles .. i dont know why she is braking them yet but it was lot of fun puting it on beside the parking area ..

just to watch it brake 10 mintues latter ..

i got most of my gear back home . but its not good news for the Mallard ..i was coverd in grease when i got back ..

i dont know .. first things first she is not not going to AZ . if she cant make it out of NY ...what sucks is she run god up to that point .. then blew her cookies ...

i will sleep , and think about it in morning .. at lest were both safe .and back home ..id not run out of gas ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Actually, there is no debate on this issue - it's acknowledged by all that the carvings are an ancient Hebrew version of the Ten Commandments.

Acknowledged by all? I guess I am not allowed to have a different opinion?

Blindbowman wrote

well that did not go well .. back at home .

Well better safe at home than broke down in Texas. Sorry to hear that your RV let you down, but better to happen close to home than far, where one is apt to get gouged for towing, repairs etc. Maybe next year?

Oroblanco

 

[allan]

well that did not go well .. back at home .. she blew her cookies about 78 miles from here .. the trany cooler bracket puncherd the ratiotor and she 320 degree .. then her thermosat stuck and it only got worse from there ..
i use over 50 gallons of water trying to get her off 81 and i did get her off 81 , but she is still 48 miles away .. i got to have her towed home tomorrow .. i dont know she broke the alternator belt i has a new spare and i but it on the heavy duty one , it lasted about 6 miles .. i dont know why she is braking them yet but it was lot of fun puting it on beside the parking area ..

just to watch it brake 10 mintues latter ..

i got most of my gear back home . but its not good news for the Mallard ..i was coverd in grease when i got back ..

i dont know .. first things first she is not not going to AZ . if she cant make it out of NY ...what sucks is she run god up to that point .. then blew her cookies ...

i will sleep , and think about it in morning .. at lest were both safe .and back home ..id not run out of gas ...lol

alternator, when they lock up they fry a belt fast, or anything that is supposed to spin freely

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Whoooooaaaa!

You must be goooood! From your last post when you were leaving, to the time you posted you had all that trouble and weren't going to make
it, was just around 4 hours.

You're lucky. When I get stuck in a situation like that - it takes me WAY longer to get back home.

Good thing you weren't further away.

Beth

 

[somehiker]

Whoooooaaaa!

You must be goooood! From your last post when you were leaving, to the time you posted you had all that trouble and weren't going to make
it, was just around 4 hours.

You're lucky. When I get stuck in a situation like that - it takes me WAY longer to get back home.

Good thing you weren't further away.

Beth

Beth:
Think you've missed the difference between his early 7 AM post and much later 8 PM post.
This according to the time setting I have for T-Net....converted to EST.
BB also has a backup ride,his S10 on the towbar,and he only made it 78 miles.
Sounds like a long and rough day for such a short run down the interstate.

BB:
So long as you didn't cook the motor,a re-cored rad and a new or rebuilt alternator should get you back on the road within a couple of days.
I've had both fail on me soon after putting vehicles on the road which had been in storage for a couple of years.
Personally,I wouldn't even go to the expense of towing the Mallard home.The weather is great for the next few days,and over the years,I've probably rebuilt the equivalent of an entire car in the parking lots of various interstate rest stops.Sides,you have the S10 for chasing parts.
Most memorable was swapping a starter in a Suburban (I always carried a spare,because they failed so often) on Woodward Ave.in downtown Detroit at 2am.....Took 20 minutes/a new record
And the truck still had it's wheels when I was done

Regards:SH.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield wrote

Actually, there is no debate on this issue - it's acknowledged by all that the carvings are an ancient Hebrew version of the Ten Commandments.

Acknowledged by all? I guess I am not allowed to have a different opinion?
....

Of course you are. Please explain your opinion.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning EE: you posted -->From what I've read, Atlantis was much, much more than just the "three rings."
**************
?? Just how big can a Caldera be? Look at what we are discussing here right now, The Superstition caldera, some 45 miles across, is large but the Atlantis Caldera, being at the apex of the three plates, would naturally have an even larger area coverage.

We mustn't forget the Yellowstone Caldera.

I suggest that the Tagus basin may have been the center, then again the outer limits may have included Teneriffe etc.

28* 02'N 15* 40' W <--> 44*40' N 14* 02 W. approx 960 miles in dia---ok, ok, I know this is strictly a very broad thumb measurement

In any event the area certainly fits in to the legends basics as to location and size. Remember we are not dealing in sheer land mass but the entire complex in which only the higher elevations would be above sea level, Nor are we dealing in three perfect equidistant rings etc..

As for the extras of golden buildings etc., etc. I would suggest a tongue in cheek attitude. I suggest that was a prime example of literary licence, perhaps as they say, an exposition of a perfect advanced society.

With that much detailed data, Atlantis would never have been lost.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

RDT---

Well the story has an adjacent continent, peopled in various different places, but considered by Atlanteans to be part of their territory. The island sunk, but not the continent.

Remember the Gulf oil drilling disaster? They said the whole Gulf floor might go, because there were large voids underneath? And after the island sunk, there were huge mud flats everywhere?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Afternoon EE: you posted -->Well the story has an adjacent continent, peopled in various different places, but considered by Atlanteans to be part of their territory. The island sunk, but not the continent.
**********
Obviously, you are here no?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You posted-> And after the island sunk, there were huge mud flats everywhere?

********
Frankly I have no idea, but the only ones mentioned are off of the coasts of Portugal and Spain..

Oro knows far more than I on this.

Don Jose de La Mancha