Rare Find Today

johnnyi

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2009
1,887
143
new jersey
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minelab, white's xlt, deus xp, fisher aquanaut, white's twin box
Primary Interest:
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I went back to the spot where I'd found the King William a few weeks ago, hopeing to find the last scraps I'd missed over the years. I kept with the small 5" coil due to all the iron, but boosted sensitivity up to an almost unbearable 26 this time around. All signals were poor and read iron by the numbers. This badly broken signal read a 1f c27 jumping back and forth to a 27f c50. Turns out there was a shotgun shell and iron in the hole.

This is a U.S. Navy buckle (tongue only with loop gone). It is very unlikely I would ever find the wreath, as besides pounding this site hard for so long, much dirt has been carted away and sold for fill, and what little ground that remains is becoming an unofficial dump.

The closest identity to this buckle is listed in Kerksis (page 73) where he describes this buckle having 13 stars (as does mine). Curiously he shows a picture of a similar buckle bearing 17 stars with a slight variance in the angle of the anchor flukes. He never describes that buckle, and any input on this point would be appreciated.

As it stands, the buckle he lists with 13 stars is rated as rarity 9, tied with the rarest of all Naval buckles, and tied with the rarest of all military buckles, Union or Confederate, that are not one of a kind.
 

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Upvote 9
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johnnyi

johnnyi

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2009
1,887
143
new jersey
Detector(s) used
minelab, white's xlt, deus xp, fisher aquanaut, white's twin box
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
It's nice to wake up to a discussion on value vs rarity. To chime in, I'm in the camp where rarity usually wins out, but with the provision that there is historic importance to the piece, such as that of some of the first Continental buttons or first Federal plates, etc. of which many of these firsts exist only as fragments. As far as monetary value goes, it is so flukey as to be almost irrelevant sometimes. For example a "Monroe" Presidential button of only two know may be "valued" at several thousand dollars, while an obscure FDR era tin pinback of the same or more number of examples has already brought one hundred thousand dollars!

I received some hopeful news last night about the wreath, but not necessarily hopeful that I will ever find the wreath myself. I've learned there was a wreath found on the general location by one of our little band, in fact by the person who turned me on to the spot years ago. He believed it was a C.W. buckle which is very similar. The odds are huge it is the wreath to the first U.S. Navy buckle. It's been some twenty or so years since he discovered it so it may have changed hands by now, but if it hasn't, I'm sure he will alllow me to photograph the entire buckle intact. It doesn't bother me at all that we would each have half of such a piece of history, as someday it would still be possible for anyone who wanted it enough to bid on each part, the way related important collections of manuscripts are sometimes bid on in parts, with a final bid being on the whole. I have no dsire to sell mine though.

Anyway, I'm waiting by the phone for the news, and will report back when I hear it. Hopefully it will be something exciting.
 

goldnow

Sr. Member
Apr 10, 2008
386
2
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Vaquero
I agree that rarity is not the driving force behind valuation. Demand drives the value.

But, not all collectors, metal detectors, or dealers are in the same arena, and they will never ever see enough of certain categories to appreciate a particular rarity. The value helps the uninitiated to grasp the find's importance, and share their appreciation for the lucky find, at least. How many USA Civil War collector's you reckon live in Europe, for instance? How many Celtic gold Slaters will be found in the USA?

Good luck on remarrying the two buckle pieces back together. That would be a historic moment.
 

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johnnyi

johnnyi

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2009
1,887
143
new jersey
Detector(s) used
minelab, white's xlt, deus xp, fisher aquanaut, white's twin box
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
"Good luck on remarrying the two buckle pieces back together. That would be a historic moment."

Ha!, looks like I'll have to wait a while for that. I got the call and struck out. It seems my friend was talking about another guy who hit the place, but I'll have to dig up his address and see what he found. Oh well, maybe I can still marry them someday, but it doesn't bother me too much if I don't. :D
 

long lost

Newbie
Oct 23, 2009
1
0
Hey Johnny, If I had found the wreath, you know I would give it to you.
If you're recalling correctly (that you've seen the dug loop) I think there's a decent chance your old hunting buddy you mentioned to me may have it.

Once again, perseverance pays off.

Cheers, KD
 

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johnnyi

johnnyi

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2009
1,887
143
new jersey
Detector(s) used
minelab, white's xlt, deus xp, fisher aquanaut, white's twin box
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
No LL, didn't see it, just heard about it. Thanks!
 

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johnnyi

johnnyi

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2009
1,887
143
new jersey
Detector(s) used
minelab, white's xlt, deus xp, fisher aquanaut, white's twin box
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
jpitt1970 said:
I've got a CW Navy button, found near Manassas w/ the identical design on it.

jpitt, yes, there are a number of Navy buttons with very close to the same design, a design which included the oval around the field, vertical anchor, etc.. They date from the 1820's. By the time the Civil War broke out this style of button had long passed, which might suggest that yours was dropped earlier on your site, or as a long shot, it may even have been used by a Confederate soldier.
 

JerV3

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Feb 28, 2005
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That buckle is a awesome relic man

HH Jer
 

kuger

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Nov 6, 2007
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johnnyi said:
jpitt1970 said:
I've got a CW Navy button, found near Manassas w/ the identical design on it.

jpitt, yes, there are a number of Navy buttons with very close to the same design, a design which included the oval around the field, vertical anchor, etc.. They date from the 1820's. By the time the Civil War broke out this style of button had long passed, which might suggest that yours was dropped earlier on your site, or as a long shot, it may even have been used by a Confederate soldier.
Thats right along the lines of info I am gathering as well Johnny. On the other note:Given the rarity of any Tongue and Wreath buckles dug back there,I would find it difficult to imagine a Wreath found at the same site would be to anything but yours.I always wonder when I dig one half or the other if someone has already found my other half.
 

relic lover

Bronze Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,212
1,309
Western PA
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That is a sweet find indeed! :icon_thumleft: If I had the wreath to it I would give it to you no problem what good is the wreath alone anyway? You have the best part for sure!
 

DigginThePast

Gold Member
Dec 31, 2008
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Congrats on your banner find. :thumbsup: Hope you are able to put all the pieces together someday.
 

Ironman!

Sr. Member
Mar 25, 2009
381
309
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Beautiful! Congrats on the Buckle and Banner!!

Is this your buckle? Plate 992 out of O'Donnell's book.
E-mailIMG_0630.jpg


Ironman
 

Ed-NH

Bronze Member
Feb 4, 2006
1,371
37
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That is a beautiful find congrats!
 

kuger

Gold Member
Nov 6, 2007
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,M.X.T.& Tesoro Tejon
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Thanks Ironman!!!
 

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