Rather Ugly Encounter with a Property Owner (A Builder)

[Erik in NJ]

So they tore down an old house (ca 1850) in town not too long ago and I noticed some men working outside for the first time. I stopped to see if I could obtain permission while the yard is being torn up. This around 60 year old guy with an Eastern-European accent (not that there's anything wrong with that) approaches me and I introduce myself, explain my interest in local history, and ask if I can look for relics on the property.

He gives me a skeptical look and then asks if I have insurance. I say yes. And he says no, he doesn't want me on the property. I ask him if there's any particular reason. He replies that if I get hurt that he's responsible. This is where I did not have a good answer and I wish I did (and no signing a waiver is not the answer)! So I say thank you and leave.

After lunch I get to thinking that I should go back and give him my card and show him some simple relics and ask me to call him if he has a change of heart. I can be very charming when I want to be and I fugure it was worth a shot.

When I get there I see one guy and ask where the owner is. He says "I don't speak English"--what a surprise! Then I see the owner riding this little joke of a bulldozer type vehicle moving old growth trees that he's had cut down. I figure I don't want to bother him while he's working and stand on the side of the road for a few minutes.

After a while I decide to leave and get in my car. The owner comes over to me and yells "Stop bothering me!! Get off my property!!" A bit shocked, I replied that I only came to give him my card and he goes on with his rant. Well those who know me here know that I don't mince words and this guy's attitude was about the worst I've encountered so I gave him an earfull which I will not describe here, but let's just say I made a few comments about him that he'll remember Then I called the shade tree commission here in town to make sure he's got the permission to cut down those trees. Unfortunately he does, but I was sure to tell the head of the commission what the guy was like. She remembered me from a pruning clinic last year and asked me to join the commission!

So this was an ugly encounter with an idiot that I don't wish to repeat...any suggestions on my original approach, etc? I have found several builders in my area to be very difficult when it comes to detecting and I'd love to be able to find a way for the borough hall to come down on them the way they have tried to come down on me.

 

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[CoinHunterAZ]

The first no would have been enough for me to leave and not return for a second no!

 

[Got_4by4]

What about "NO" don't you understand?

You didn't have to go back! But you chose to press the issue.
It didn't turn out the way you wanted and now YOU are pissed!

Get over it! There are still a lot of people who will say yes.

IMHO

 

[vpnavy]

I agree with CoinHunterAZ - your first encounter would have sent me packing!

 

[dieselram94]

Agree never push the issue. Everyone is afraid of being sued...

Sent from my SCH-R930 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Erik in NJ]

This is the kind of flippant attitude the guy had. I didn't go back to ask him permission again (if you read what I wrote) I went back to give him my card in case he had a change of heart--is there a problem with that? I was polite both times, until the end when the guy was just an a**hole. Someone starts yelling at me like that--they are gonna get it back and it ain't gonna be purdy (emphasis mine)!

What about "NO" don't you understand?

You didn't have to go back! But you chose to press the issue.
It didn't turn out the way you wanted and now YOU are pissed!

Get over it! There are still a lot of people who will say yes.

IMHO

 

[hogge]

Erik, This is one of the many reasons I never ask permission to hunt someones property. I go to the woods. Out of sight, out of mind. Not to say that I haven't because I've gotten permission from several people. And besides, you don't have to fight through the layers of trash that have accumulated over the years, from someone living there til now. Give me an old cellar hole in the middle of no-where any day.

 

[g-olden years]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with your returning the second time, because after noticing that he was then busy, you stood quietly to the side, not bugging him at all. Then you got in your car to leave! The fact that he then chose to roar over to chew you out reveals his essential attitude toward people. Would be a pain to work for that dude. Not cool that you hollered at him after he hollered at you, but even a mild ole lady like me might've hollered or cussed if someone charged close up yelling in my face.
In general, you & others will probably have better luck & better detecting conditions when you approach property owners of old buildings or lots BEFORE they're at a point of being sold, demolished or renovated. Just a thought. Andi

 

[issombeituni]

No means no even on dates!!! Trust me

 

[undertaker]

Tried getting permission when I first started detecting here in Vt. and it was nearly impossible. Abandon lots were owned by landowners that were impossible to locate. Construction sites , they just don't want you there which I understand. People here just don't like strangers digging up their land. I stopped wasting my time and now hunt cornfields, wooded areas with cellar holes and anything thats out of sight with out permission. Havn't be told to leave any of those areas. I know where the good stuff lies in peoples yards but I don't want to deal with the hassles to dig it.

 

[screwynewy]

Sounds like you didn't stand a chance with this guy from the start. You didn't know this until you asked him for permission the first time. Going back a second time was your mistake. It sounds like (my interpretation of what you wrote) you returned with the hope that you could sway him into granting you permission but when it went south very quickly you reacted with a verbal assult that you don't want to repeat here. My opinion, it's nobody's fault that the guy was an A-hole but you were wrong to respond the way you did. But that's just me and I pretty much avoid confrontation when possible.

 

[huntsman53]

Erik,

It was an honest mistake on your part to go back the second time but a serious mistake on the property owner's part to approach you while you were returning to your' car and verbally abuse you! At a very good friend's suggestion, who by the way owned thousands and thousands of acres of land and most of the farming equipment in a small rural community in West Virginia, I approached another property owner and asked him for permission to only cross his' property to access a piece of land on top of a mountain to hunt. He went into a tirade calling me an S%B and everything in the book. I was in my' truck and he was a passenger in another truck and when he verbally abused me, I met him half way and let him have it right back verbally. I told him that I had been civil and respectful in asking the question and he had no right to go into a tirade. I also told him that Worth (yes that was his' first name), my friend, would hear about the encounter and he would be sorry. Well Worth, denied this hateful old man of the use of his' equipment (tractors, plows, hay mowing and bailing equipment and a lot of other items) for a long, long time to learn this old fart a lesson. Sorry that this could not be the case in your encounter!


Frank

 

[creskol]

There is an old proverb that can be applied here: "IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED, TRY, TRY AGAIN." If you don't succeed. so be it, but at least you tried. No harm there!

 

[jeff of pa]

well first he asked if you had insurance, hoping for a no.
so he could say Nope that if you get hurt that he's responsible.

when he got a Yes from you he still said No & used that excuse

it was obvious he had an attitude for whatever reason.
I could list several possibilities, all of which could be wrong

IF you had tried at that point to hand him your card, I'd agree,
with you and say "Hey you tried"

But once you left, as the others said, Case was closed,
you should have let it go, at least for a good year

 

[thrillathahunt]

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Should have just walked on brother.

 

[Erik in NJ]

I went back to give him my card in case he was a reasonable man and would have a change of heart at some point. I felt he'd been abrupt and maybe I just caught him at a bad time. I had some relics in my pocket in case he struck up a conversation, but I did not go there to try and talk him into detecting there again. He verbally attacked me first in a very rude way. I live in this town, he's just someone who is here to try and make a quick buck. He knocked down a 150 year old house and cut down several trees that are that age as well. He's within the law there unfortunately, but once he got in my face, I got in his. I don't often avoid confrontation when it's provoked by another party

I'm not asking people to judge my actions here because to be quite honest I don't care if someone thinks I shouldn't have gone back--I thought it was a good idea and I'd do it again--I was just wondering what is the best response when someone says no because they are afraid of being sued just because I'm on their property. I didn't have a good answer for him--wish I did. But he seemed like an ignorant man anyway, so perhaps logic was irrelevant.

Sounds like you didn't stand a chance with this guy from the start. You didn't know this until you asked him for permission the first time. Going back a second time was your mistake. It sounds like (my interpretation of what you wrote) you returned with the hope that you could sway him into granting you permission but when it went south very quickly you reacted with a verbal assult that you don't want to repeat here. My opinion, it's nobody's fault that the guy was an A-hole but you were wrong to respond the way you did. But that's just me and I pretty much avoid confrontation when possible.

 

[jewelerguy]

Some people just can't see things the way we see them. It sounds to me that the bottom line is that you were a stranger to him and he had no desire to get to know you. If times weren't what they are today with all the crooks and scammers and thieves, your visit may have had a different outcome. People just don't trust people any more. Your story reminded me of an episode I had a few years back.....

Here where I live, there is a taxpayer funded government program that provides certain property owners with a new home. It goes something like this.... if you own and live in a run down house that is paid off, but is in such a state of disrepair that it should be condemned, under this program you can apply for a FREE home. If your application is accepted, the city will foot the cost to tear your old place down and the state will build you a brand new home in it's place. You agree to live in and maintain it for 5 years and it is yours totally FREE.
I don't agree with this program because to me it encourages people to be lazy and let their house go to ruin in hopes of getting a new one for nothing. While of course I, and most everyone else, has to work hard and pay the taxes which provides said home, while maintaining our own homes.
I once contacted the owner of one of these places hoping to gain permission to hunt the yard before their new construction began, and was basically yelled at telling me that "they didn't want giant holes dug that would harm the foundation of their new home" I explained that my digger wasn't much larger than a spoon and most finds are typically 4" or less deep. I was met with more yelling.
Because of the age of my area, at best I might have found a couple of wheats or a merc. I just thanked them for their time and left it at that, while of course shaking my head and cussing the government.
I guess the basis of my story is to just let it be and move on to the next place and hope for better results. Good luck!

 

[Erik in NJ]

In general, you & others will probably have better luck & better detecting conditions when you approach property owners of old buildings or lots BEFORE they're at a point of being sold, demolished or renovated. Just a thought. Andi

I agree with you--it was not a property at the top of my list since I'd hunted it before, prior to it being sold. I have not had the time to track the contractor down and I just happened to see him out there today. Oh well I think I have learned another thing or two on how to argue with an idiot--they say you can't win

 

[wetfly]

Personally I think If I had some inkling that there could be something good there I prolly would of gone back too but don't let one ******* ruin your day! So he's an ******* , I'm sure it's not the last one you'll encounter in this hobby that's for sure!
So, forget about it and move on right next door and ask again lol! Sometimes there's no right or wrong way to try to gain permission especially when the owner is gonna act like that!you were just doomed from the start by the sound of this guy and that's ok cuz there's always another piece of property somewhere! His loss hope he sells soon and the new owner is nicer!!
Keep swingin ..... One way or another!

 

[Oneshot]

With all due respect, folks from different cultures have differing views, and foreigners like my own grandfather are keenly aware of the risks of lawsuits, so a firm no means no. Returning just set the busy guy off. Getting mad at him makes us all look bad- he was just out doing his business. No need to return fire.