Rather Ugly Encounter with a Property Owner (A Builder)

[HutSiteDigger]

That' Jersey for yah!!

 

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[Erik in NJ]

Excellent point Tom!!

My initial conversation with the guy was very brief and I "fumbled" when the guy started talking about liability. After I had lunch and thought about the conversation I said let me go back and at least give him my card. I'm a friendly and likeable guy (given proper norms of decent behavior from the other party) and didn't see anything wrong with that. People do change their minds on things especially if you happen to strike up a conversation or talk about things you have in common. I have a pretty thick skin from working on a trading floor for the past 12 years or so, but I still don't tolerate blatant rudeness like in this case. Anyway I just wanted to say thanks for your post and I thought you made an excellent point with the 20-20 hindsight!

Erik, I haven't read all the other replies to this point, but here's my take: I disagree with those who say you should never have gone back and tried again. I have .... on occasion, tried more than once, and have INDEED gotten someone to reconsider. It's not impossible. Although yes, you might continue to get a "no". Even a rude one. Those people here who are saying things like "you should have understood that no meant no" and "what part of no don't you understand", are falling victim to the following pyschology: They are seeing this in slow-motion replay, so OF COURSE it's easy to say what they're saying. If it had gone the other way, and the fellow had had a change of heart, those SAME people would be saying: "see? it doesn't hurt to try. congradulations!". doh!

Kind of like when we all watch NFL. When a key play happens against our team (an interception, a fumble, etc...) we all groan, right? And SURE ENOUGH, the slow motion replay comes up, and the sportcaster will invariably show how a receiver on the left side of the field was totally open. But instead, the quarterback threw to another receiver who was better covered, and got intercepted. So what do we all do when we see that slow-motion replay?? We shout: "That stupid quarterback should have thrown left, NOT right". See what geniuses we are? Heck, WE should be the quarterback, since we are seeing what that quarterback was too stupid to see. It's a plain as the nose on your face, when you watch it in slow motion replay, right? You see the trick why it's easy for someone to say "what a dumb move for you to go back and ask 2x". They're falling victim to this 20-20 hindsight trick.

 

[CMDiamonddawg]

Hmmm very interesting encounter

I have worked on res. & comm. work sites. Clearing building lots with heavy equipment or even small machines , time is money like one member mentioned .


I believe your description of a small piece of $#!t dozer is probably a skid steer .

99 % of work day sites are off limits to all , Only licensed contractors with Liability Ins . and Workmens Comp.
Yah , should have offered this one , for a small fee of 50 bucks & after hours , I will rid the site of nails and debris that could damage tires , fat chance but just maybe Grumpy would have been interested and he would have flipped ya the bucks prevent a potential danger from partially buried sharp objects and hazardous metal debris , win / win situation for all concerned .

for what it's worth , move on to an older area

 

[Keppy]

What gets me is he said no .. Then you was going to try again ....... Then you did not like how he told you to stay off his land ......... So you went to the shade tree commission to try to cause trouble for him .... You don't sound that nice either..........

 

[Oneshot]

If the poor guy would have said in plain English "Hey, don't bust my chops I told you no already", would the idea have sunk in? Don't push people, man, sometimes people snap...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

keppy and one-shot

keppy and one-shot, you are falling victim to the hind-sight 20-20 pyschology I posted in #58. Read and see if you agree.

In other words, had the OP gotten the guy to change his mind, then no one here would be saying things like what you're saying. Instead, we'd have been giving him high-5's and atteboys, saying "nice story. Congrats. See, it doesn't hurt to ask again" Thus what changed between the 2 potential outcomes? Only the end result. Just like NFL football in slow-motion, everyone's a wonderful Monday morning quarterback, and an expert on "what should have been done".

 

[creskol]

I can tell you one thing .. Over the past 45 years, I have been granted permission to hunt many properties by folks who have had a change of heart. If I just said, oh well.. what the Hades .. and let it go at that, I would have missed out on some prime properties.

 

[Beans]

My ansestors said NO, government took their land anyway.

 

[dieselram94]

What happened to the poll? It disappeared...

 

[Oneshot]

Tom_in_CA it's just my sense. Call it hindsight but it's foresight. Let's not overthink the matter here. For all anybody knows, that guy may have had his ass handed to him for letting people on property in the past, stolen tools. etc, and he's tired of it. Why do we learn as children that No is No, then get butthurt as adults when someone has to tell you what you were already told, again.

 

[creskol]

Tom_in_CA it's just my sense. Call it hindsight but it's foresight. Let's not overthink the matter here. For all anybody knows, that guy may have had his ass handed to him for letting people on property in the past, stolen tools. etc, and he's tired of it. Why do we learn as children that No is No, then get butthurt when somebody gets pissed to have to tell you again?

Maybe in this case, the second approach was too close to the first, but like I said above, I have been granted permission to hunt many properties by folks who have had a change of heart.

 

[Limitool]

ERIC IN NJ.... I can relate to your story in many ways... you didn't go "looking for a confrontation" but was caught in one upon your return. I can understand EVERYBODY'S views here but like you... there's a point where it's not about MD'ing anymore.... PERIOD.

QUICK STORY FROM 2 WEEKS AGO: I live in B.F.E.... nothing around but woods, ROCKS and ridges, NOTHING. I'm trying to learn how to use my machine since I'm new to this. My dogs and I are about 100yds. from my home on an old logging road nobody uses. An old retired doctor owns about 300 acres just southeast of me. He has a small trailer on his property that he utilizes now and then. I NEVER SEE HIM. So I'm MD'ing on the logging road which I guess is the edge of his property. Wouldn't you know it... he pulls up in his Range Rover and asks me "What are you doing" while I'm swing the MD. Duhhhhhhhhh. So, I say metal detecting. He say's for what? I respond m e t a l. He says this is my property and to GET OFF.... NOW! I never said another word... not one. He continues down path and stops about 100yds later. I walked across the logging road onto another patch of property. I know who owns this piece of property and do have permission. It borders mine and I restart my MD'ing. He backs up and is pissed!!!!!!! Now he asks, again "What do you think your doing?" I said this time "we already had this conversation" and continue. Through the down window of vehicle he asks if he gets out will the dogs be "ok"... I said "sure". And that was the TRUTH. He remains in vehicle. Then yells at me what he thinks (not good & uncalled for). When done he yells "WELL?".... I turn around and tell him to shove his attitude and Range Rover where the sun don't shine and just stand there looking at him. He said nothing more after staring at me for a few seconds and continued. Damn?

I don't want this guy mad at me and he NEVER ever wanted to engage into a civil conversation and wouldn't.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom_in_CA it's just my sense. Call it hindsight but it's foresight. Let's not overthink the matter here. For all anybody knows, that guy may have had his ass handed to him for letting people on property in the past, stolen tools. etc, and he's tired of it. Why do we learn as children that No is No, then get butthurt as adults when someone has to tell you what you were already told, again.

I can gaurantee you guys that if the OP's answer had been a story of the victory of persistence, NO ONE would have come on here saying "you shouldn't have tried that 2nd time". It's all the trick of slow-motion replay at work, that causes us to think we "knew better all along", blah blah

Oneshot, how much you wanna make a bet, that if the OP's post had .... instead .... been finished with the owner having a change-of-heart, that you would have been amongst those saying: "atteboy. congrat's. nice p/r work. good going", etc.... It's only because of the outcome to the contrary, that it becomes easy for you to say "no, it's forsight". Why? Because you're looking at the end result of this particular case, and ....... SURE, anyone can do what you're doing, and say "you shouldn't have done that". Do you see the psychological trick your mind is playing on you?

Is anyone getting this ?

 

[Keppy]

I can gaurantee you guys that if the OP's answer had been a story of the victory of persistence, NO ONE would have come on here saying "you shouldn't have tried that 2nd time". It's all the trick of slow-motion replay at work, that causes us to think we "knew better all along", blah blah

Oneshot, how much you wanna make a bet, that if the OP's post had .... instead .... been finished with the owner having a change-of-heart, that you would have been amongst those saying: "atteboy. congrat's. nice p/r work. good going", etc.... It's only because of the outcome to the contrary, that it becomes easy for you to say "no, it's forsight". Why? Because you're looking at the end result of this particular case, and ....... SURE, anyone can do what you're doing, and say "you shouldn't have done that". Do you see the psychological trick your mind is playing on you?

Is anyone getting this ?

Well of course Tom... If the story would have been different the answers he got would have been different.... But he got as rude to the owner as the owner was to him .......... BUT then he tried to get the guy in trouble with a government agency............... That is not a good thing to do That is what got me PO because he did something like that.........

 

[dieselram94]

I can gaurantee you guys that if the OP's answer had been a story of the victory of persistence, NO ONE would have come on here saying "you shouldn't have tried that 2nd time". It's all the trick of slow-motion replay at work, that causes us to think we "knew better all along", blah blah

Oneshot, how much you wanna make a bet, that if the OP's post had .... instead .... been finished with the owner having a change-of-heart, that you would have been amongst those saying: "atteboy. congrat's. nice p/r work. good going", etc.... It's only because of the outcome to the contrary, that it becomes easy for you to say "no, it's forsight". Why? Because you're looking at the end result of this particular case, and ....... SURE, anyone can do what you're doing, and say "you shouldn't have done that". Do you see the psychological trick your mind is playing on you?

Is anyone getting this ?

I see this point...However no means no and not maybe. This guy is trying to make money and not play games...

Sent from my SCH-R930 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tom_in_CA]

However no means no and not maybe......

And such is the trick of slow-motion replay. You too would have been amongst those saying "congrats, atteboy" etc... if the results had been the other way. But so strong is the psychology of 20-20-hindsight, that ... alas, no one sees.

 

[Tnmountains]

It is an active job site. The guy was unfriendly but had the right to say no. I do not let people on our sites either........... unless I know them and their character or they are introduced to me by someone I know. Sorry. To many whack jobs now days. I am kinda like some of the others that have posted. If someone came back after receiving a no I would ask them what part of no do you not understand and run them off also and got back to making a living.

You are to good of a hunter to let one no shut you down. Move on .
HH

 

[CMDiamonddawg]

Tom_in_CA it's just my sense. Call it hindsight but it's foresight. Let's not overthink the matter here. For all anybody knows, that guy may have had his ass handed to him for letting people on property in the past, stolen tools. etc, and he's tired of it. Why do we learn as children that No is No, then get butthurt as adults when someone has to tell you what you were already told, again.

I agree ,Oneshot , you know how things are in a lot of NJ , crackheads , vandals , all kinds of fraudulent injury hustles involving heavy legal costs . This Contractor definitely got smoked on one of his past jobs . Very strange , the equipment the guy is using , sounds like he has to clear the lot with a bobcat or Case skid steer because vandals screwed up his best articulated loader . That would make him one miserable sob

 

[Erik in NJ]

Here's the real sad part with some of the pundits here--I didn't go back and ask this guy again if I could detect on his property!! It's not a high-value property for me as I've already detected it several times in the past before he owned it (with permission of course). I simply went to give him my card when it was convenient for him to accept it--I didn't bother him while he was on his tractor, I just stood at the edge of the road and waited for a few minutes--then I decided to leave...that's when he came running over to me yelling like a lunatic. Maybe Keppy, OneShot (another NJ man , et al. should read a bit more closely for trying to castigate me for something I didn't do.

Tom is right on with the hindsight comment and I appreciate his clear thinking. I'd pretty much do the same thing again except I'd be better prepared to answer the "I'll be responsible for you" comment. I don't even have any proof that he was the actual owner of the property--I'll look into that too

I can gaurantee you guys that if the OP's answer had been a story of the victory of persistence, NO ONE would have come on here saying "you shouldn't have tried that 2nd time". It's all the trick of slow-motion replay at work, that causes us to think we "knew better all along", blah blah

Oneshot, how much you wanna make a bet, that if the OP's post had .... instead .... been finished with the owner having a change-of-heart, that you would have been amongst those saying: "atteboy. congrat's. nice p/r work. good going", etc.... It's only because of the outcome to the contrary, that it becomes easy for you to say "no, it's forsight". Why? Because you're looking at the end result of this particular case, and ....... SURE, anyone can do what you're doing, and say "you shouldn't have done that". Do you see the psychological trick your mind is playing on you?

Is anyone getting this ?

 

[Oneshot]

Tom_in_CA it seems like only the enlightened see the psychological side of things. I remember working at a college where some of the psychology instructors were among the most offensive towards security personnel, often rude and pushy, but feeling that they were doing nothing out of line. Then they wonder why no one sees as they do, always the victim, and often angry. No one can read minds and sometimes access is granted freely. When it's not, you've been put on notice. If a second attempt is successful - great! If not- maybe it was a mistake to ask again - who knew? Was the bad reaction a suprise, or just a bad read. Not granting access should be fair warning. Ask again- take a shot and get turned away just say sorrrrry Don't cuss the guy out. Let's leave egos aside and teach the young ones the right way.