Scuttled Nazi treasure submarine

[ECS]

Here is a link I found without even trying hard. The Battle of Point Judith and U-853 Here is another. The U-853 German Submarine Shipwreck  New York and New Jersey's Wreck Valley I was told the story of the 88mm shells in 1987. It did not come from a book. It came from the son of the man who found them. He showed him where he hid some of them in 1965-66-67. I met the son in 1968 when he was 8 and I was 12. If you think I am making this story up you are wrong. These books and other stories talk of the rumor that there were 88mm shells put on board the sub. Some of these rumors came from the people involved in putting them on the sub. If you all want to refuse to believe that this story may be true, that is your problem.

The AQUAEXPLORERS site has great photos of items recovered from the U-853,and mentions the rumor of the 88shell casing treasure.
Another site with great underwater photos of the U-853 is:
http://njsucba.net/sites/site_submarines_2.html
Now for an account of the action and aftermath of the U-853:
A Nazi U-boat Three Miles From American Shores
BDD,note near the bottom of this account:
"Hans Bergerdans testified at Nuremberg that he was paid to weld wads of travler's checks into shell casings aboard the U-853".There was no mention of gold,silver,or diamonds.
Now,I am sure that you are aware that the diamond story appeared many times in various pulp treasure mags and books in the 1960's.Is it not possible that Bergerdans' statement at Nuremberg about travler's checks became diamonds at the hands of a treasure writer?
PS,when one googles U-853 88 shell casing diamond story,one is directed to Page 1 of E-book "MY TREASURE STORY".

 

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[Bigdogdad]

Here is a few more. http://www.ecophotoexplorers.com/u853.asp http://shipguy.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/block-islands-u-boat/ No ECS nobody but you are confused about all this. My friend's dad taught and told the story to one of his son's. He even had a toy submarine that had pellets in it to show him how the sub was sunk. They did this in the backyard pool. He took him to a museum in New York and showed him a submarine. He showed him some of the diamonds that he got from the sub. He was very wealthy. He took his son and showed him EXACTLY where he hid the diamonds from the sub. He died unexpectedly in his own planes crash.

What is so hard to comprehend? Is it impossible for you to admit that I may be right? There is much more to this story that I will not put on here. Yes I did write an e-book that I am not trying to sell and have even thought of taking off the web as my story has gotten much more serious. You all keep trying to make me look like I don't know what I am talking about. Why? Are you jealous?

I never read any of the"pulp" magazines from the 60's. Why would travelers checks become diamonds? Just to make the story "better"? ECS-Why do always just pick and choose what you want to believe from all the material available? That is one of the problems I have with you. Whether it is pots of gold, Cloud Mountains or german subs that I talk about you always want to claim I am wrong. Why?

As far as the guy testifying at Nuremberg, he said he welded up shell casings to be put on the U-853. Does that mean that the 88mm shell story may be true because of what he said? So many different stories and they all lead to the fact there may have been treasure on board the U-853. Hundreds of people have dived on it since its sinking and no one found the shells or any treasure. Why is that? I will tell you why once more. Four guys came ashore with the shells and buried them next to the parking lot at the lighthouse. The sub was destroyed before they could make it back to the sub. My friends dad found the shells. It is the truth. I will tell you no more of what I know. It is not all in my book. Deal with it.

 

[ECS]

BDD,I thought you would be pleased that I found a mention at the Nuremberg trials about 88 shell casings for the U-853.But as usual,you turn it all around and make the story about your great acumen,discounting others information.
Chill out and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[ECS]

1. ECS nobody but you are confused about all this. My friend's dad taught and told the story to one of his son's. He even had a toy submarine that had pellets in it to show him how the sub was sunk. They did this in the backyard pool. He took him to a museum in New York and showed him a submarine. He showed him some of the diamonds that he got from the sub. He was very wealthy. He took his son and showed him EXACTLY where he hid the diamonds from the sub. He died unexpectedly in his own planes crash.

2.What is so hard to comprehend? Why? Are you jealous?

3.I never read any of the"pulp" magazines from the 60's. Why would travelers checks become diamonds? Just to make the story "better"? ECS-Why do always just pick and choose what you want to believe from all the material available? Why?

4.As far as the guy testifying at Nuremberg, he said he welded up shell casings to be put on the U-853. Does that mean that the 88mm shell story may be true because of what he said?

1.BDD,so you never saw the shell casings,diamonds,or even the toy submarine,your knowledge of the existence of these items are based on what your friend told you. Is that correct?
2.That is not the first time you played the jealous card,a common ploy you use when someone disagrees with you.NO,I am emphaticly NOT jealous of you.Why would I be? Is that hard to comprehend?
3. Ever heard the phrase "Beef up the story to make it sell"? Are you claiming that you do not pick and choose what to believe from all the available material?
4.Bergerdans' testimony gives credence that there were 88 shell casings placed on the U-853.Does it not? Or are you now saying it may not be so because of what he said?
Let the slings and arrow insults fly,as you mentioned on another thread,I do have a thick skin.

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS-Kudos to you for "finding" that great story. Let's see, what did that take? Type in the search box "U-853 Submarine treasure". Hit search. Voila! There it is on your computer screen. Man, that was a lot of work. I already did this before you did. Big deal. Try making the trip to Montauk Point from where you live in Ocala multiple times. Try researching the library in Montauk when you had to go through the newspapers one page at a time through multiple years long before computers were available for this.

No, I did not see the shell casings, toy submarine or the diamonds. This was all told to me first hand by the person that did. The fact that he was a good chilhood friend that I had known for twenty years when he told me this means something. He had absolutely no reason to lie. I was also given access to all the father's personal papers and pictures including the FAA report of his death and more things. It was easy to put it all together while doing my RESEARCH. I also got access to another individual that had corroborating information from a completely different perspective. There are many more things pertaining to this that I will not divulge as I have no reason to. Convincing you or anyone else at this time will gain me NOTHING.

Bergerdan's testimony does nothing but give more credence to all that I have said. Where did I say otherwise? The eye witness accounts just give the story more truth.

So I turned it around and made it a story about me? Mentioning my book? You did that first. Whose information did I discount? It is you that discount my information. Why? Does it bother you that I may know the location of this treasure and more? Why? Go to sleep and dream that Santa Claus will bring you a treasure story of your own. Merry Christmas!!!

 

[ECS]

So,I reckon you will avoid answering the questions posed?So adroit of you.

 

[Trembull]

I'm right -- No I'm right

You two put your gloves away for the day!

​Merry Christmas Everyone!

 

[old man]

View attachment 716673

I'm right -- No I'm right

You two put your gloves away for the day!

​Merry Christmas Everyone!

MERRY CHRISTMAS, I'm with you. I think this thread has gotten way off topic. If the poster is trolling for investors and help for a land target, he should take his quest to another board. He's after a land target not a shipwreck underwater.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about Nazi treasure submarines. I only posted on here in response to a another poster. I am NOT trolling for investors or help. I have all the help I need. I am done on here so you will not be FORCED to read anymore from me.

While writing this post lastleg was also posting. I will respond to below post only. I don't know all the facts about the four guys. What I was told was that two of them died before they got back to Germany. One of the two survivors told the story of where they hid the diamonds to some visiting Americans. I know more but I am done. I feel unwelcome on the shipwreck forum. Ask ECS for more details as he is the certified expert.

 

[lastleg]

Since the sub was a maritime vessel I believe BDD should prove his case on this board, not on the Cache forum. However there are
interesting holes in the story. As I understand it the war in Europe had ended prior to the sinking of the Nazi sub? If "four guys" from
the sub were ashore and had no submarine to go back to why would they walk away leaving the diamonds on foreign soil?

Maybe BDD could make this story better by writing about the "four guys" and what happened to them in America. I know Readers
Digest would love to publish a story about four German submariners stranded in New Jersey on V-Day. What were they wearing?
Where would they hide? How did they get the black cameo off? Did they have a change of clothes in case of emergency. Were they
packing heat? How did they exchange dutchmarks for Jeffersons? And lastly, did they ever return to their homeland?

You can bet some screenwriter could stretch this out into a made for TV miniseries. Just some thoughts on Christmas Day.

 

[goldenrod]

Just as a side note when I was going thru boot camp in Ft. Jackson SC , one of the other trainees in my company was from Fl. and he told me at that time (70's) that his dad operated an E-boat down that way, among the islands an such, and had different types of enterprises going on. He would not elaborate. Thought it was interesting at the time, never gave it much thought but the begining of this thread reminded me of that story and thought that might give some credance to the story.

 

[ECS]

Since the sub was a maritime vessel I believe BDD should prove his case on this board, not on the Cache forum. However there are
interesting holes in the story. As I understand it the war in Europe had ended prior to the sinking of the Nazi sub? If "four guys" from
the sub were ashore and had no submarine to go back to why would they walk away leaving the diamonds on foreign soil?

Maybe BDD could make this story better by writing about the "four guys" and what happened to them in America. I know Readers
Digest would love to publish a story about four German submariners stranded in New Jersey on V-Day. What were they wearing?
Where would they hide? How did they get the black cameo off? Did they have a change of clothes in case of emergency. Were they
packing heat? How did they exchange dutchmarks for Jeffersons? And lastly, did they ever return to their homeland?

You can bet some screenwriter could stretch this out into a made for TV miniseries. Just some thoughts on Christmas Day.

According to official US Naval records the U-853 went down with ALL hands on board.
...but it would be cool to have four Germans in 1945 go to LIBBY's LUNCH in Paterson,NJ,order the famous foot long Texas weiner and pay for them in diamonds.

 

[Bobadilla]

Hi everybody,

I originally posted this topic about scuttled German submarine with treasure on board months ago. I read carefully all the answers because treasure Nazi submarines has been my life hobby, I could say. There is no doubt that there were several Nazi submarines carrying treasures accross the Atlantic Ocean during the last weeks of the WW II. After 5th of May, 1945, there were 11 recorded U-boats with selected loyal Captains, using generally the numbers of missing subs earlier in the war that left Europe (Germany, Danemark and Norway). Some of them arrived, some of them were lost during the journey, some of them were intentionally scuttled in the Caribbean and in Argentina waters, some of them rendered on purpose after fulfilling their missions. Not all the treasures and especially brilliant scientists ended in Argentina, Paraguay or Chile. Many of them found their new life in the United States. So the treasures. No hard feelings, guys, business is business... One of the well-known examples is Wehrner von Braun, chief of the Nazi scientists in secret laboratories in Peenemunde during the WW II. He designed V-2, he was after atomic bomb for Hitler. He was nationalized American in 1955 and head of NASA spacial projects in the fifties.

What I want to say is that some of the U-boats with top scientists and treasures really ended in the USA. The end of the story about diamonds and hidden treasures on the US soil seems to me a little strange but not impossible. I would rather believe that the diamonds remained inside the sub.

Best regards and MERRY CHRISTMAS to all the Forum members, I wish to all of you Happy New Year full of new discoveries and treasures, and if there is no treasure, at least have a fun.....

Lobo (Bobadilla)

 

[ECS]

Another example is the U-234,which departed Kristiansand,Norway in March,1945 on a mission to Japan.Onboard were two Japanese officers,many reels of microfilm on supersecret German weaponry,a diassembled ME-262 jet fighter,German scientists,specialists,and technicians,and 10 barrels of enriched uranium oxide than had been converted into uranium 235.
The U-234 surrendered to the USS Sutton,May 19,1945.
It has been claimed that the uranium 235 did make it to Japan-by way of the bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I can't help not commenting. Let's say a U-boat came to the US with treasure or scientists or whatever on board. The objective is to get whatever onto US soil. How would it get from the sub to land? Hmm, let's see. Put the treasure or the guys in a torpedo tube and shoot them to shore? No, I don't think that would work very well. Run the sub up onto the shore? Naw, too easy to see. Make the guys swim? Heck they wouldn't want to get all their stuff wet. Pull up to the dock in New York? Too obvious. Call their pals that are already in the US and have them bring out a boat? Maybe. No, too dangerous. Come on, think. Thinking, thinking, thinking. I know!!! Bring out one of the rubber rafts that they all carry, blow it up and load the scientists, treasure, etc onto it and row to shore in the dark of night. No, that just sounds like something out of a Hollywood movie. Gee, I give up. ECS your so smart, you tell us how they would have done it.

 

[ECS]

Only if you have your OFFICIAL DOENITZ SECRET DECODER RING at ready!

 

[maipenrai]

Didnt Von Braun and all the other scientist, come to the states AFTER the war ended? Or did they have inside knowledge that Berlin was falling, and got an early ticket out? Im sure Adolf wouldnt have approved of that, and would have them shot, and any U-Boat commander would also probably be shot. As far as treasures taken out of of Europe, it would have been official business, and not grab and run. Sure, maybe some higher ups in the Party, could have arranged their own transportation, plus some trinkets to keep them living well, but I believe most of the treasure stories are just that, stories.

As for the diamond story, why would someone just take a few diamonds and leave the rest, or show his son where they were hidden? Maybe the son was a good kid, but I would never show a kid, where a shell full of diamonds was buried. I must be greedy, but I would have taken all of the diamonds, not just a hand full, and how did he open the shell to get the diamonds?

 

[ECS]

Von Braun was part of OPERATION PAPERCLIP,which had nothing to do with U-boats,treasure,or shipwrecks.

 

[Bigdogdad]

maipenrai-Who said anything about taking a handfull and leaving the rest? There were 12-14 88mm shells. Maybe someone can put a link on here as to how much we are actually talking about. German 88mm shells are huge. Some were hidden at the lighthouse site and some were hidden in New Jersey and some were hidden in Florida. My friends dad actually had four sons. Two were untrustworthy, one was too young, and the other was his favorite. Why would you not show your favorite son a thing as important as where you hid something valuable? How did he open the shells? Come on, get real. Whether they were sealed with wax or welded shut it would not be very hard. Anyone reading this has to accept the fact that I know much more about this than I am willing to put on T-Net or for that matter to share with just about anyone. You all will never believe it anyway.

ECS- Why do you ALWAYS dodge direct questions? You have done this time after time. Maybe you are not as smart as you think you are.

 

[old man]

Didnt Von Braun and all the other scientist, come to the states AFTER the war ended? Or did they have inside knowledge that Berlin was falling, and got an early ticket out? Im sure Adolf wouldnt have approved of that, and would have them shot, and any U-Boat commander would also probably be shot. As far as treasures taken out of of Europe, it would have been official business, and not grab and run. Sure, maybe some higher ups in the Party, could have arranged their own transportation, plus some trinkets to keep them living well, but I believe most of the treasure stories are just that, stories.

As for the diamond story, why would someone just take a few diamonds and leave the rest, or show his son where they were hidden? Maybe the son was a good kid, but I would never show a kid, where a shell full of diamonds was buried. I must be greedy, but I would have taken all of the diamonds, not just a hand full, and how did he open the shell to get the diamonds?

maipenra, ALL of the German scientist that came to the United States. Were recruited by US intelligent sources AFTER the War with Germany was OVER. They did not sneak into the USA. Common sense would dictate that if they came here on a rubber raft, they would try and hide. As non citizens they would not want to be discovered. Just like the illegal immigrants today. It's well documented how they came to work for the US Government if anyone cares to look.

Did some German subs carry valuables Sure they did. It was destined to be kept out of the hands of the United States and it's Allies. NOT to be brought to the US to fall in Hitler's enemies hands.

Also anyone that knows anything about the coast of New York and the depth of water would know that a sub isn't coming into shallow water close to shore. A raft would only be 12 ft. long at the most and the men would have to paddle at 4 or 5 mile to shore. Then you have 88mm shells loaded on a small raft? Could be, but I don't see it.

I can tell you from a similar experience that that is not something that is easy to do. When I was in the military we had a training exercise off of Cape May NJ. We had a 12 man team in a 20 ft. rubber raft to do a beach Reconnaissance. We were trained for that type of operation and it was a long paddle at night. I don't see Scientists doing it, that are a lot older and not in as could shape as our team was.