Season "3" of Curse of Oak Island

[Schlechter]

Also, about people not believing in the flood tunnels. You often mention...well anywhere they dig they get water, yes ground level water. Forgive me for not being technical with my wording but this is how I understand the levels of earth.

There is a natural ground level where water flows, but its not like once you get below that all there is a river of water. And typically when you reach this water level, the water doesnt come flooding in, it just sorta trickles into the area and fills it (likely from the near surrounding dirt that is holding small amounts of water). There is no river of water that will rush in when you dig this deep and once you have dug out this sitting water it should not continue to fill (at least not at a significant rate).

Also, I dont believe that there is high levels of water in the clay or slate levels of the ground, these levels would typically form the bottom level...or bedrock? This pit far exceeds the ground water level and goes through various layers that would not allow water to get any deeper. What each person who has tried to dig out the pit explains is water FLOODING the pit. This would indicate that the amount of water rushing in far exceeds the natural influx of ground water. I believe they also indicate that it is salt water that floods the pit and not fresh water that would typically make up normal ground water (like when you dig a well). Therefore the only explanation is that there are tunnels connecting to the ocean where the water is salty and not been filtered by the earth and that once it has been breached the salt water floods into the pit and fills it up to sea level.

This is why the builders of the pit created layers of "blue clay" that would form a water tight barrier and not allow ground level water to get to the deeper layers of the pit.

I thought you guys on this forum were smarter than this?

 

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[jeff of pa]

ROFL

is this how the builders of the pit created layers of "blue clay" that would form a water tight barrier and not allow ground level water to get to the deeper layers of the pit, in their lifetime without drowning ?

 

[Schlechter]

I beleive the "blue clay" is just a natural type of clay found on the island that is of higher density and better water sealing properties. It would have been layered when they were filling the pit. They wouldnt have drowned when creating the pit because while they were working on it the flood tunnels would have been blocked from sea.

And that also supports my thoughts, if ground level water filled so quickly they never would have been able to dig that deep in the first place. Which goes to show how could they have dug so deep and created various layers past the point that any later excavation attempt was able to reach if there is not now being higher amounts of water coming from somewhere else?

 

[Roadhse2]

Insults won't get you very far here...and if you did just a bit more research you would find that geologists have already answered those questions..and maybe even give you a better understanding of how freshwater and salt water work together on an island.

Normally I would link those for you, but you 'may' be smart enough to find them yourself.....good luck

 

[Schlechter]

Thanks Roadhse2 for the words of encouragement.

I found a page that may explain part of what is going on but I am no geologist so please don't take my understanding as fact.
Aquifers and Groundwater, from USGS Water-Science School

After entering an aquifer, water moves slowly toward lower lying places and eventually is discharged from the aquifer from springs, seeps into streams, or is withdrawn from the ground by wells. Groundwater in aquifers between layers of poorly permeable rock, such as clay or shale, may be confined under pressure. If such a confined aquifer is tapped by a well, water will rise above the top of the aquifer and may even flow from the well onto the land surface. Water confined in this way is said to be under artesian pressure, and the aquifer is called an artesian aquifer.

It seems as though there are potentially multiple layers of water sources seperated from eachother (confinded aquifer). Some layers may be getting sourced from a further distance (lets say the salty ocean) which would explain why after getting past the initial ground level water (or unconfined aquifer) there is still risk of having water entering the pit. The degree of water flow is apprently dependent on the type of material (or rock) that the water is flowing through.

Based on this I still have some unconfirmed explanations,

If this pit is now in fact tapped into an aquifer that is sourced by the sea than it would explain the deeper level of flooding salt water. This still does not explain how the pit was dug as deep as it was originally. One possibiility is that at the time the pit was created the sea level was low enough that this aquifer did not exist and would not interfere with their digging. This would allow us to identify when the pit was built if we can confirm what time the sea level would have allowed for this.

OR...if the sea level was high enough, the builders would have to block off a significant portion of the sea to not allow for any supported water from the sea to continue to flood the tunnel. This would explain why no excavation crew has been able to find any flood tunnels and why there is no way to completely block it off by digging certain spots on the island (like 10X). Basically the entire island is one big flood tunnel at a certain depth.

So based on this we either have a more accurate idea of when the pit was originally built, or we have a necessary step of blocking off the sea water in order to get to the bottom of the pit, as the original builders would have had to do. Ideally you would need to do a 360 degree block to the full depth of the pit.

Would you agree with this Roadhse2?

 

[jeff of pa]

One possibiility is that at the time the pit was created the sea level was low enough that this aquifer did not exist and would not interfere with their digging. This would allow us to identify when the pit was built if we can confirm what time the sea level would have allowed for this.

This would be the Only way I could Concede the Pit / tunnels were man Made.
But If I am correct.
I believe this would also put it at Pre Dinosaur age.
and a Former Civilization.

I know many will laugh at this, But not harder then I laugh at it being for hiding a treasure I'm sure

 

[Yard Waste]

Please provide your link to indicate this. I have never seen it recorded anywhere that they successfully dug to the bottom of the money pit. Even when they had all the heavy equipment they were not able to successfully dig past the flood pit levels. Maybe you are being confused with them "drilling" past the flood levels. Those results were just to sample test what was past the levels they could not get to.

They didn't find anything when they did this years ago. In fact the whole area has been disturbed and contaminated, they can't even find the so-called money pit.

 

[Roadhse2]

That excavation was to a depth of 140'....and if you read this account of the first digs (long, but lot's of info) you will find that the depth was 110' to where they thought the treasure was...So the latter excavation (140') DID get to the bottom of the known original dug pit...which also reportedly had dug under the platform and found it to be dry and (speculated) unexcavated beyond that...Chapter 3 — Early History to 1865

 

[Schlechter]

@ Yard Waste

I am aware of the massive excavation that was performed, but I have not seen it indicate that out of all of that, did they sucessfully manage to dig to the bottom of the money pit. My understanding was that they did all that digging trying to find and block the flood tunnels because they could not get to the bottom of the pit. If the whole island is one big flood tunnel then no matter how many holes you dig its not going to stop the water from entering if its a confined aquifer being fed from the ocean at all angles.

I am also aware that due to the exstensive digging they lost the exact location of the original money pit (again I don't understand why they wouldn't place a marker on it), but it is said that the Hedden shaft is still in place which WAS built to intersect with the money pit.

EDIT: reading Roadhse2 article...

 

[Schlechter]

On several occasions diggers were nearly killed by sudden "blow out" events, when water erupted into the excavation, filling the shafts with mud and debris, forcing the workmen to flee for their lives.

Based on geology that sounds like an artesian aquifer to me, not necessarily a "flood tunnel".

Four shafts have been dug north, south, east, and west of the old pit, from six to ten feet deeper than we wish to go in it; none of them distant from it more than twenty, and some of them not more than ten feet, and yet no water. This season we have gone directly underneath both platforms and water [i.e. the water in the old, or original pit - ed.], within two or three feet, and yet dry

Personally I find it hard to interpret these words. "deeper than we wish to go in it" does not indicate any depth. It's hard to interpret whether he is saying they dug these others holes slightly deeper than the money pit flood level or whether he is describing how close horizontally these holes are to the money pit. It sounds more like he is saying how close to the money pit they were digging, and does not indicate how deep. The fact that he mentions there being no water is very suprising to me and if it is a confined aquifer then they were not digging deep enough.

 

[Schlechter]

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/patrick.shtml

If what is stated in that article is true, it really does sound like there was an actual flood tunnel. They indicate that digging around the area showed no sign of water which would mean it is not a natural confined aquifer being fed from the sea. It also states they did find various evidence of the flood tunnel. They finally indicate that they were not able to successfully reach the precise area that the flood tunnel connected to.

What say you Roadhse2?

 

[Schlechter]

http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/diggings.shtml

The "Oak Island Diggings" article also supports that they managed to dig adjacent tunnels to depth lower than the 100ft money pit (without water intrusion), and once they tried to connect to it water filled in from the apparently connected flood tunnels.

Very confusing as to what is truly going on. It seems early excavators were finding very different results than later ones.

 

[Roadhse2]

What I think is that the record of of the original dig, where it mentions the shaft collapsing 17 feet, is that it fell into a natural cavern/sinkhole. That then opened the path to the natural waterways under the island and allowed the pit to flood....Just as a roof falling in on a mine.

No time right now...so off

 

[Schlechter]

Appendix --Claims of a flood tunnel under Oak Island

This article indicates that Dunfield did dig a pit to 140 feet and proved that no flood tunnels were causing an influx of water, all the water was coming from below. That would mean that somehow the other tunnels dug around the vacinity of the money pit to even apparently deeper levels were not tapping into this natural water source?

I would like to see a page of his findings to verify the source because if that is true, then his findings truly did get to the bottom of the money pit and successfully solve this ongoing hunt. It also means that all previous attempts were not understanding the results they were finding or at least were not being described accuratly which still seems kind of strange.

I would believe Dunfield but I still feel there is a gap in explaining earlier findings.

Also, there has been some claims that the vault at 100ft was only the first and that there may be a second vault past the 140ft depth. I think its likely a natural void as Dunfield expressed just like what 10X displays. Thoughts?

 

[Roadhse2]

Yes..as geologists have noted the whole underlying strata is filled with voids..so no reason to believe of any man made chambers....not for me at least..

As I have noted before though...I don't believe anything ever was buried at the Money Pit...just a long ongoing way to get cash investors as long as you can keep the legend alive...keep embellishing the story, especially during the mid 1800's "Gold Rush" days, and you can always sell someone on it...

My interest lies more in what the actual use for the Smith Cove works were for...they are a 'known to be'...really there...Just from a historical outlook I would like to have that answered..but, not treasure related, so likely will never know as finding the real use doesn't further the legend..

 

[Schlechter]

This page offers information on the dig findings:
Smith?s Cove ? a closer look at Oak Island?s artificial beach | Oak Island Treasure

And then this page gives a pretty extensive explanation on what it likely was:
Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

Overall, I think I finally got the information I was looking for on explaining this island. Unfortunately I have to agree that I doubt there was any treasure

 

[Roadhse2]

I do believe there was a small treasure....a chest or satchel, something that had washed up from a shipwreck that the former slave found when he lived on the island... he was known to go from poor to 'rich' (relative term) in a short time after buying a parcel on Oak Island...and since this was well known, I think a legend grew in town around where he had gotten his money...and where he 'might' have it buried. Then McGiniss buys a parcel on the island and 'finds' a depression and claims it a treasure site, after all, the former slave had found something on the island it seemed......blah blah blah....story grows to what is it today...

I think that was the start of it...but there never was anything but the initial small chest or satchel ...

 

[gazzahk]

I been thinking re the flood tunnel...

If it does exist it must of been built from the pit to smiths cove and not the other way around. If it intersects the pit at around 110 feet without modern tech there were be virtually no way to dig it from smiths cove and find the exact location of the pit. The pit is 13 ft wide the chances of digging underground that distance and meeting up with a 13ft hole would be remote. The flood tunnel would have to be a minimum of 3 feet high and 2 feet wide (approx) in order for people to be able to get into it and dig over such a large distance (from smiths cove it would be what say 400 - 500 feet away.

This would explain why the builders were not worried re flooding while digging the flood tunnel. If the speculations I am putting forward are true I do not see what the need for the coffer dam actually was. Once the tunnel was dug the inlets to the tunnel simply could of been done a low tide. Building a huge dam seems like a lot of unnecessary work.

It also does beg the question why has a 3 foot wide tunnel not been found? I "guess" for it to be true the tunnel must of been refilled with rocks or something that would allow water through but not leave a big whole/pipe that someone would of found by now with all the digging.

My own view is pretty much the flood tunnel part of the pit seems highly questionable....

 

[gazzahk]

And then this page gives a pretty extensive explanation on what it likely was:
Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

The problem with the salt theory has been discussed before http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/oak-island/477949-season-3-curse-oak-island-49.html#post4833901

I now tend to believe the beach has little to do with the pit. My "guess" is now more along the lines of the theory that the beach was made to dry fish. The filtering was needed to stop the mud re mixing with the sand. ie mud - covered with resilient vegtable matter (coconut fibre and eel grass) then sand to keep the two separate. Otheriwse as the tide come in over time the mud would just remix with the sand and the fisherman would have a mud beach then. Some drains added to stop the sand washing away so it stayed on top of the vegetable matter. The result a sand beach that lasts...

Or maybe the person in charge of building the pit and hiding the treasure liked to sunbake...

 

[Roadhse2]

If we use 500 as the measurement from pit to beach...then the tunnel would have to rise from the pit at the 110' level at an angle of 12.4 degrees or 2.6 inches per foot.....that is actually pretty steep and would make pretty miserable digging....Plus, that kind of angle when water was introduced would have enough force to blow out the top of the shaft like a geyser because of the long run...No reports of anything like that, only that water came in and filled the shaft to about sea level (27 to 30' below ground level). Consider that standard drain lnes in homes are put in at 1/4" drop for every 4 foot of run, which would be 10.4 inches per 4 foot in the tunnel...steep.

Of course it could have been dug down at the cove 55 foot and then continue over to the pit and halved that figure...still steep.

That is where a lot of the problem comes in in believing in a drain tunnel...difficult to do for one...and why? for another...

Edit to add: If the water was coming from underneath the pit shaft, as reported, from naturally filled caverns or other groundwater, then it would rise slowly till it reached it's own level with the surrounding seas, as the already filled waterway would act as a buffer and so not see as great of a rush of water. Of course all these figures are just generalizations as we have no data on the tunnel itself...if there was one...Water pressure should be near 200 PSI (Quick rough figure as there are a lot of variables, so dont hold me to it.) as it came down the tunnel (house is around 50 for comparison) and diminishing until it had filled to sea level height....