"Seeing" through the trash???

[SwampHunter]

"Seeing" through the trash

What are some mid-priced target ID machines that will "see" through the trash and only see good targets and still get good depth?

 

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[Coin Digger]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Your going to get a ton of answers with that question.

My question to you is. What detector are you using now and can you get a smaller coil for it?

If your wanting to upgrade I would suggest buying one of the newer generation of detectors.
Their electronics will be faster at processing the signals coming from the coil. You'll also want to buy one that has a choice of coils. ie smaller coils work best in trashy sites.

 

[SwampHunter]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Right now I am using the Ace250. Yes, there is a small coil for it, but I still want to upgrade to a better machine with more depth. The Ace250 is a good machine, but it just will not do what I want it to do in the places I want it to do it.
I understand that I can get another machine and add I small coil to it and have faster processing and better in trashy areas. This will work to a degree.
The thing I basically want to know is what machine will find a coin under a pile of nails if you have iron discriminated out?

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

The thing I basically want to know is what machine will find a coin under a pile of nails if you have iron discriminated out?

That depends more on the user than the detector in many cases. It depends on what angle you hit the target. It depends on whether you decide to dig or pass that "iffy" signal up. If it's Big Iron, you may not hear it at all. But the main thing is that you have to test your detector at home to find out exactly how it'll respond. Big Iron--I don't know if there's a detector out on the market right now that can do that.


-Buckleboy

 

[Digger]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Personally I don't think there is such a detector. That being said, I know any detector that has the ability of manual discrimination editing can do it to a point.

It's not so much that the detector can see the good target under the bad, but more of a setting that will see junk by itself and blank it, but see a combination of junk and a good target as not discriminated. The key here would be setting your discriminator just above the point where iron gets discriminated. Iron by itself would get discriminated, but iron with a good target would still sound off.

 

[SwampHunter]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

I am not worried about the big iron. It's the nails and some modern bits of trash that I am looking to "see" through. I have an old White's Coinmaster 2900D and it will "see" a coin under a pile of nails. It is not that deep though and isn't comfortable to swing. Not sure how or why it will do it, but I can put nails over a coin and it will always pick up the coin. Maybe it is seeing a part of the coin and ignores the iron?

 

[Coin Digger]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

I seriously don't think there's a detector on the market that can see a coin under a piece of iron. The iron will cause the detector to null out the signal and the coin underneath.

If the coin is above the iron and has a larger signal than your detector will pick it up although the signal may be less than perfect.

If the nail is beside the coin that's where a smaller coil comes into play giving you better target separation.

Say the coin is to left of a nail and you swing your coil over the coin first it will see the coin. If you swing over the nail first it may not see the coin, it will depend on the recovery speed of your machine, how far apart the targets are and your coil size.

Here's a small experiment to try.
Place a coin under a plastic cup and put a rusty nail on top of the cup and swing your detector over it. Then switch the coin and nail and repeat. That's masking.

Then place the coin and nail a few inches apart and swing the coil over them at your normal speed, keep moving the targets apart until you can detect the coin. That's target separation.

You can get better depth from a machine that can be ground balanced, and even better than that is a day or two after a soaking rain will make targets come alive.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Some machines are better than others at masking out larger iron. The Tesoros are the worst and the Minelabs the best.

The question really is, in masking out the large iron, are the nearby coins also being masked out?

In tests I have done the answer is yes if the iron is large enough and close enough.

Sorry, no detector has coin X-ray vision.

Like mentioned above in those other posts a smaller coil is often the only option to get closer to the larger iron discriminated objects. It's like using a rifle instead of a shotgun.

Everybody knows this now I think but VLF has run it's course. They might make them deeper in the future but they still won't be able to see through iron.

Badger

 

[gary in idaho]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

The old Compass 100 kHz detectors were about the best for finding coins and other non ferrous items at sites with a lot of small iron junk, like nails. Here's a video demonstrating that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxhIVZIrpg

 

[Old Fart in TN]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

some good information, thanks everyone

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Yes, the 77b could do it. Perhaps to about 4 standard sized nails placed over a coin. But no, not a "pile" of nails. Just 4 or so, depending on size, rustiness, etc..... At some point, the amount of iron over-powers the 77b's ability to "see through". But that's about where the benefits end. They had no other form of disc. Ie.: foil and silver dollars and everything inbetween (all conductive targets) sounded the same. They also peaked out at about 6" in depth for coin-sized targets, were a bear to keep tuned and balanced properly, and didn't work well in minerals.

Some of the Tesoro 2-filter machines of today (like the Sabre, etc...) can sort of do it: Put the disc. *just* enough to barely knock out individual nails. Then put a nail or two over a coin, and it'll see through, IMHO, better than the powerhouse deepseeker machines of today can.

 

[Coin Digger]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Now there's an idea for a new multi-frequency detector one that can be switched to 100 khz.

 

[littletwig]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

In my opinion the best to detect trashy spots is with as small a DD coil as you can use. I use a 4x6 DD with my M6 and it seems to do a very good job. Just remember to go real slow and stay real low to the ground. Hope this helps.

 

[Eu_citzen]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

I heard good things about the Red heat detectors.. Sadly not in productions anymore.

The Gold Maxx Power (XP) has quick recovery speed but I am not sure if it has "see trough" abilities.

I also recall there was a polish detector... But I can't recall the name.

But neither can see trough a PILE of coins, only a few of them.

 

[SwampHunter]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

So what is the deal with frequency? I notice that the Minelab X-70 uses different coils for different frequencies and different jobs.

 

[Eu_citzen]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Ok I'll take an example:

1. You are looking for Silver. Then it is better to use a lower frequency i.e 3 Khz as it is more sensitive on high conductive materials (i.e. copper, silver) and big targets.

2. You are looking for gold. Then it is better to use a higher frequency i.e 15 Khz as it is more senstivie on small and low conductive targets. (i.e gold, Nickel)

High frequency also seem to (generally) have a quicker recovery speed. (noted on the XP range of metal detectors)

 

[SwampHunter]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

So if I was wanting a sniper coil that would pick up both gold and silver the 7.5khz would be the best choice for this?

 

[Eu_citzen]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Well around 6-7 Khz is a good general purpose coil from what I hear.

But consider that those numbers mentioned where only examples, there are detectors that use up to 48 Khz maybe even higher!

 

[XL-PRO PRO]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

Targets with masking(iron or other)make vdi readings virtually useless! Yesterday I dug a nickle that vdi'd as quarter,reswept the hole and got a penney reading,checked with my pinpointer and found a 2" piece of copper wire.I am starting to become a firm believer in the dig everything theory in older sites where good finds have been found.Vdi readings are basically an average of what is under the coil at that given moment.Thanks DBULL

 

[Keppy]

Re: "Seeing" through the trash

The old Compass 100 kHz detectors were about the best for finding coins and other non ferrous items at sites with a lot of small iron junk, like nails. Here's a video demonstrating that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxhIVZIrpg

Reminds me of the Minelab Sovereign....==Jim_K==