Stone Tablet Symbols?

[the blindbowman]

Greetings mi amigo Blindbowman,

If we assume that the LaFrance gold is Templar, then we have a terrific anachronistic problem in the presence of nitroglycerin in the cave WITH the bars. Nitro was not invented prior to 1846, so.....?

Oroblanco

no we dont the gold bars were so many as stated in the tayopa legend they stacked up in the tunnel ...or tonel in this case .. think bout what i am saying . if the gold was there and they found it they would try to change the markings to make them selfs look like the true owners much like changeing a brand on a cow .......

thats why some of the bars had the old markings . maybe they did not under stand the markings any more then we do .. they find the treasure cave and try to move some of it , they cant so they try to protect it with the jars ...the black powerd cask would have gone bad and they replace it with nitro... remember pegleg could also be the one that added the nitro when 1846 ....

 

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[the blindbowman]

besides what we beleive could be nitro could in fact be oil of some kind . it could have been takeing from the treasure trove of tayopa and put ou there to scare people it worked ... but think about this the vents are protected much in the same way .. their nature is dangerous ...

yet we see them both related threw the code ...

thats one of the things that make this code so hard to chase down . we could agree the stones could have had writeing added to them . but the years of when they were made and why changes from one era to the next .. who could have made them is not the question . the question IMHO is when did the Navigator henry make them and why hide it the way they did ... is this aztec gold and silver taken by the templars and melted for their reasons ... maybe thats why they ere massacred ...

the piont is if pegleg change the date , who ever found the stone next were massacred near where the stones were found ... much like the massacre near la barge springs, yet pegleg changes the date from 1435 . meaning the stones would have been there if the navigator was maybe they were hideing the temple mont treasure and useing the tayopa legend to confuse other people about what they were doing ..maybe they were melting the aztec treasures down ...maybe the idains were throwing everything they could find into the vents like the aztec's did ...


remember the kino legend stated he told them to put in back from where it came from .. that was between 1685-1703 we are not sure of the early date . but if they did whatr kino stated . it would explan how pegleg found the stones and saw the 1435 date because the stones were far early . then kino's time // maybe kino knew that and saw the navigators work and knew what was happening ... by telling the idains to throw it back in the vents ... no one would know where it went and the indains were not going to tell anyone after what had happend in the past ...

the peralta most like found the mines from useing the stones after pegleg found the stones and change them ..and thats how they ended up were they were found .. with the date changed to 1847...

my piont is if we change the date back to 1435 . then it starts to make some kind of logic . not what we beleived . but the truth never less ...and we see who frist made the stones ,,,,..Kino was smart but he did not make these stones the navigation simbolics are much older then kino

i may not be able to find all of the 18 locations but i am getting very close and i did not end up in Utah ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman I beg your indulgence;

First, before we connect Pegleg into any of this, perhaps this relatively brief article on the original Pegleg would be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_L._Smith

It seems unlikely that Smith is involved here, at least in my view.

Next, before we connect the interesting historical figure King Henry (also known as Henry the Navigator) into this, we ought to keep in mind that there is no evidence to suggest that Henry even knew the Americas existed. Henry as a Templar? Look at it another way, suppose that king Henry the navigator DID know of the Americas, then why did he not immediately launch into a vast effort to exploit the knowledge? To me, (and sometimes things are fuzzy to me) this does not make sense. If you are interested in the mysterious Templars and think there could be some connection to America, I would suggest that you have the best place to find evidence of such Templar presence MUCH closer to where you live than in remote Arizona - look in Nova Scotia, Oak Island, Massachusetts, etc.

I don't mean to be discouraging when you are enthusiastic and optimistic in your theories, just that I cannot always make the same conclusions that you have arrived at based on what we see.

Blindbowman wrote:

if the gold was there and they found it they would try to change the markings to make them selfs look like the true owners much like changeing a brand on a cow .......

As in the gold bars of LaFrance, remember those marks were identical on all of them, and no other marks were noted. There does not appear to be any reason to think that the marks had been altered, nor that any blackpowder had been replaced, nor that any finder had not simply removed the bars - as anyone who found them would. So I am NOT saying that your theory or ideas are absolutely impossible, only that a simpler explanation (and much more recent in time) appears to be a more logical answer.

Blindbowman wrote:

what we beleive could be nitro could in fact be oil of some kind

Yes this is possible, we have only the word of LaFrance, but there seems little reason to think he would mis-identify nitroglycerin, which can easily and readily be ID-ed even by a dolt like me by wetting your finger with it and snapping the droplet against a hard surface - if it goes 'pop' it is likely nitro.

Blindbowman also wrote:

it could have been takeing from the treasure trove of tayopa and put ou there to scare people it worked ... but think about this the vents are protected much in the same way .. their nature is dangerous ...

Well it is POSSIBLE this could have been removed from Tayopa and put there to frighten people, but this seems very unlikely - again nitroglycerin had not been invented when Tayopa was being worked, Tayopa is quite a distance from the Superstitions, and if it is hidden in a cave there is no reason to have something to "frighten" any potential visitor since you should not expect anyone to find it. Why should we conclude that LaFrance had mis-identified nitroglycerin for oil? I cannot address the vents, as I have not seen them.

Blindbowman wrote:

yet we see them both related threw the code ...

You may be seeing a connection through a "code" but I don't even see a code, only an unusual makers mark.

Blindbowman also wrote:

we could agree the stones could have had writeing added to them . but the years of when they were made and why changes from one era to the next .. who could have made them is not the question . the question IMHO is when did the Navigator henry make them and why hide it the way they did ... is this aztec gold and silver taken by the templars and melted for their reasons ... maybe thats why they ere massacred ...

I would agree that the stones COULD have had writing added to them, but have zero proof this is the case; who could have made them is a very open question (we all have our theories, my own is they are of relatively recent manufacture) but I cannot make the connection to prince/king Henry of Portugal (the Navigator) as the creator of them as I see no good evidence to support that idea. If you check your time-line again, you will see a time problem with having the Templars seizing treasures from the Aztecs - for their "empire" was founded in about 1248, and at that time they were NOT in control of vast areas, just a three-city alliance that grew over the centuries. The Aztecs also kept records and had prophecies, and have no record (that we know of) of any contact between Aztecs and foreigners from across the seas. They really did not become an "empire" until after 1440, under the rule of Montezuma I. Lastly, you have concluded the Templars were massacred, yet I have no confidence in making that conclusion - we have nothing that can be PROVEN to be Templar in origins found in the Superstitions (or Arizona or Mexico for that matter) so while you DO have an interesting theory, I hope you will take the time and search to find the evidence which will prove it beyond doubt even to the archaeologists. You know the historians will insist on nothing less than absolute and incontrovertible proof before they will agree to change the history books. You have good abilities as a researcher, just need some more solid evidence to convince the hard-noses like your friend Oroblanco (who has had some experience tilting at windmills personally!).

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

you want my honest opioion Oro . some of the treasures were sealed in the mines and some ended up at the bottom of the vents ....

so i can only ask you one more question . if montezuma need 3000 men to move his treasure , why?

why did he need that many men .. i can tell you why , the vents are at 3200 ft elevation ....it would not take 3000 men to move a treasure of 2 rooms under normal conditions . but if you were going to hide it way the hell up an gone ... you would need a lot of people maybe 3000 to get it up there ...

makes you wonder dont it ...?

if montezuma was born in that area he would have know where the vents were and where the seven caves were ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Caballeros: HI Oro /BETH, glad to see you settled, even IF you are now so far away that I cannot visit you, or was that part of the plan?.

As for the thread in here hmmm T A Y O P A hmmmmm


donJose de la Mancha .

 

[the blindbowman]

i agree logic tells me few have found any prove of the chance the treasures could even be real ...

i will not believe the templar are part of this untill i see it cut in stone lol ...
i agree with yo there is no out right proff of them being in this area , but if someone was going to do all this in this area and not be seen it would have been them ...lol ...


you stated LaFrance stated the nitro was there ... i was talking about what i saw i did not know LaFrance stated there was nitro there ....

 

[the blindbowman]

Oro if i was right . think of this the Ta yo pa, is in fact 3 diffrent mines i think real de has found the TA and i have found the PA there is still one missing if i am right ...the Yo or it could be two (Y) and the (O) ...this could explan why me and real de both beleive we have found sign of the tayopa mine because we both have .....lol

i just got a odd idea . what if it is backwards , the path goes north but its read south pa is where i am and yo is somewhere between me and real de tayopa . and he has the Ta mines the horse mines Ta is the word horse .. and they are some where in south


hat makes logic . 6 letter word 3 mines , what if all the mines had two letters in there code and they were made into words to hide them in a path from south to north but the path was read north to south ...

that works ...

real de did you find any markings of a horse or TA in the area you are working ....

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again mi amigo,

Blindbowman wrote:

one more question . if montezuma need 3000 men to move his treasure , why?

That one is easy - a large part of the manpower would be warriors to protect the treasure, and remember the Aztecs had no pack animals (other than dogs) not even the wheel, so had to pack everything on human backs. I would not assume that the full 3000 men were all loaded down with gold and silver, for they would then be a very tempting prey for any sort of enemy that might happen upon them. May I ask where you got the figure of 3000 men for the Aztec treasure?

On the other hand, if there were truly 3000 men packing treasure, they probably did not carry more than 80 pounds each (and would require a large contingent of warriors to protect them, as they were burdened with heavy loads and could not easily defend it) so we are talking about 240,000 pounds of treasure or 120 tons. As we know that both gold and silver are very dense and heavy, it seems quite possible that 120 tons of the metals would fit in two rooms. Remember, Cortez said those two rooms were HUGE, not like our normal living rooms. A ton of gold takes up only about two cubic feet, so even a living room that is 12 feet by 12 feet by eight tall could hold 576 tons of gold! (Gee wouldn't you like to have your living room filled with that noble yellow metal! )

Blindbowman wrote:

if montezuma was born in that area he would have know where the vents were and where the seven caves were ...

That is one big IF - for Montezuma II (the one that met Cortez) is listed as being born in the Aztec capital city of Tenochtitlan in 1480, not in far off Arizona. However if he were actually from the Superstitions, it seems logical that he would be well familiar with them. Not too sure about the seven caves however, as Aztec legend seems to place them in their original homeland, which could have been Florida, not Arizona.

Blindbowman also wrote:

but if someone was going to do all this in this area and not be seen it would have been them ...lol ...

I agree that the Templars were devious enough, and I do suspect they did cross the Atlantic, but the evidence suggests their visit was only to the extreme NE of the continent, and a one-time thing - possibly to bury something far out of the hands of the European monarchs?

HOLA mi amigo Jose!
Yes Mrs Oro and I have made it here (after a wonderful pleasant journey I will have to tell you about some time harhar) but I don't see any reason why you could not visit - after all you could always use the excuse that you wanted to see Mount Rushmore! Failing that, I do plan on visiting you, just that will take some time (and a little luck). I have been having a most interesting discussion with our mutual amigo Blindbowman here, perhaps you can add a bit?

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Oro,

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Blindbowman wrote:

Quote
what we beleive could be nitro could in fact be oil of some kind

Yes this is possible, we have only the word of LaFrance, but there seems little reason to think he would mis-identify nitroglycerin, which can easily and readily be ID-ed even by a dolt like me by wetting your finger with it and snapping the droplet against a hard surface - if it goes 'pop' it is likely nitro.

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Trying to follow this brand of bb "logic" would confuse anyone. LaFrance never mentioned nitroglycerin. That's pure b.b.b.s. When he realized how ridiculous it sounded (someone must have clued him in) he switched to the "oil" story.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

...i have been talking with scott wood about expedition 3 and my permits and getting ready, i spent $800 on ebay in the last week getting stuff for the expediion , thats why i cant go to the Rendevous , i had already made plans to buy at this time ......

good night all

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote:

LaFrance never mentioned nitroglycerin

WHOOPS my bad, I mis-read this earlier, in the mention of the five gallon jug of nitro - and went way, way off into trying to find a date, then into a theory of where the gold came from! See mi amigo Blindbowman, how far OFF I can get, with such a simple mistake? So we are really back to just the strange markings on the bars! Sorry about that Joe, it is a rainy night here in SD and I started connecting dots that just weren't there!

Blindbowman wrote:

Oro if i was right . think of this the Ta yo pa, is in fact 3 diffrent mines i think real de has found the TA and i have found the PA there is still one missing if i am right ...the Yo or it could be two (Y) and the (O) ...this could explan why me and real de both beleive we have found sign of the tayopa mine because we both have .....lol

Well I am convinced that our mutual friend Real de Tayopa (whom we affectionately refer to as Jose) has indeed located and now owns the original Tayopa, the source of MOST of the Tayopa legends. There is reason to think that the second Tayopa (known today as the Dios Padre mine) was located and (formerly) owned by another friend named G. Kennemur, however he recently sold it. The third Tayopa remains un-discovered, as far as I know - and until Blindbowman has brought out some artifacts/ore etc I don't feel too confident in attaching any exact labels on to what he has found. (Remember your very sound advice Blindbowman - "remove all labels")

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Trying to follow the twisted path of bb's stories would make anyone's head spin. I had to give it up a few weeks ago.......vertigo.

Keep your powder dry.....no pun intended.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

its a matter of what i find at the bottom of those vents and at the other 39 sites . with that many people we should get some good pictures ....

evidence well clear up any douts ....

 

[Oroblanco]

PS this (my whole wrong theory) is what happens when we use our LOGIC.

Old joke:

A young man went into a local university on visitor's day, to stop at the various classrooms to decide which courses he wanted to take. Seeing one room labeled LOGIC he went in and found a professor at his desk taking questions from students.

"Hello professor, can you tell me what your course is about?" asked the student.

"Well," the professor began, "logic is a very useful mental tool. Consider this simple question. Do you own a hedge trimmer?"

"Yes I do!" answered the student.

"Well then it is logical to assume that you must have hedge that you need the hedge trimmer for, right?" the professor went on

"That is right professor!" said the student

"And to continue with logic, it is logical that if you have hedges to trim, then you probably own your home, right?" asked the professor

"Dang professor that is right too!" said the student, now becoming impressed.

"It is logical then that if you own your own home, then you are probably married, correct?" asked the professor

"Holy smokes professor that is right too!" said the student

"Then logically, since we know that most places don't allow single sex marriages, that we can conclude that you are also heterosexual." said the professor.

"WOW professor that is amazing! Sign me up for your class right away!" said the student.

The student then left the classroom to check out some of the other classes, and ran into another fellow. The second fellow stopped the student and asked,

"Say buddy, I see you just came out of the Logic class - I am looking for what classes to sign up for and was wondering about it."

"Oh hey you will love Logic, I just found out about it and signed up." the student answered

"What is it all about?" the second fellow asked

"Well let me show you how it works." the student replied "For instance, I ask you a simple question - do you own a hedge trimmer?"

"No, I sure don't." answered the second fellow

"Then by using logic, we can assume that you are gay!" the student replied

Ahh, logic...

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

a man is walking in the desert and someone shots him ... as the man is laying there bleeding to death the man that shot him walks up and looks down at the man bleeding to death . the man looks up and says well just dont stand there are you going to help me or not .. the man that shot him starts to pray , ....so i ask you where is the logic here . a man ask a man that shot him for help or why dose a man that shots people pray ....?

 

[Twisted Fork]

I spoke with an elderly woman many years ago who is no longer with us today. She was a very gifted dowser that literally exhibited a force from her, that made your hair stand up from forty feet away behind her while her welding rod whip was spinning like mad at a gold vein. She was unique and very old school to say the least. One day while on an outing with her in Arizona, we sat in the shade taking a break from the blazing heat and she told me that she had been hired by a family in New Mexico, to pin point Montezuma's treasure in an area of legend handed down to them. She said she found a buried cave for them and that it was indeed the location according to her spirit guide. Two people died in mysterious separate accidents over the same week as they were in the process of excavation. They were too scared to continue and she wouldn't tell anyone else where it was out of fear of their death as well. She said it was cursed to high Heaven. All I know is that it was in New Mexico. Also through this woman, I gained some understanding about the Peralta Tablets and 8 mines located between where the tablets were found and King's peak, Utah. 5 of the mines are in Northern Utah, below King's peak and a vault is supposed to be near Spanish Fork, Utah in an old Aztec mine. The other three mines are somewhere between the Superstitions and Spanish Fork. One of the fabled mines is in the north west desert of Utah near Grantsville. It was found and closed due to the owner's death from within the mine. His widow is to upset about it to run it or even be bothered about it. Enclosed is a photo of one of the 8 heart stones belonging to the Peralta tablets. That's all I can say. Your gold bar might have come through a massacre during shipment from the vault, just a guess. Twisted

This second photo below is another heart stone of Jesuit origin found in Utah. It is the shape of the Mediterranean Sea above the Holy Land.

 

[Springfield]

....If you check your time-line again, you will see a time problem with having the Templars seizing treasures from the Aztecs - for their "empire" was founded in about 1248, ....

Have you considered the possibility that the Mexica originally received the location of the source of their gold from the 'Templars' (or their parent group-you know, the ones who originally arrived in Mesoamerica by sea from the east in the distant past, led by 'Quetzalcoatl')? The KT 'officially' existed 1119-1307 ca, yes, but if you consider that this order was just another incarnation of a much older group, then some of history's nagging unanswered questions at least have a plausible answer. Were the Central American 'gods' merely the imaginings of the local ignorant savages, or were they human beings with much capability and knowledge?

....I hope you will take the time and search to find the evidence which will prove it beyond doubt even to the archaeologists. You know the historians will insist on nothing less than absolute and incontrovertible proof before they will agree to change the history books...

That is indeed a richly humorous and ironic statement, Oro. History as we know it in the modern era is a mind control strategy. We humans are quite programmable and controllable.

 

[the blindbowman]

well i got to agree springfield,, none of us lived threw the great flood ...

these only my opioions and theories they change with the evidence s i uncover the path . there is nothing in stone but the spirits of those that were there long ago .... there were a few levels of templar that spaned 300-500 years from the early 1200's to the 1500's and even new groups even today . yet their name changed often at times ..


and yes i agree with statement ...

 

[Cubfan64]

Cubfan,

I admire your trying to carry on a conversation with bb and make some sense of what he says. A few people on this site have attempted to do the same thing and eventually had to throw up their hands in defeat. One person even deleted all his posts and, pretty much, left the building.

From what you have quoted, I assume we are supposed to believe that two caves full of gold bars were carved, each and every one, with the same "code". I guess that was to make sure no one missed it after looking at the first 100 or so bars.

I wonder if the "code" has any connection to the 5-gallon glass jugs full of nitroglycerin. The direct connection seems obvious with a second look. Five dots, five lines and five-gallon bottles of nitroglycerin.

See you this weekend.

Joe

Even against my better judgment sometimes, I try really hard to give everyone the benefit of the doubt - I really do.

I keep thinking that perhaps it will take someone who "thinks outside of the box" to finally find the LDM (unless it's already been found that is). At the same however, sometimes I just can't keep up with the theories that just seem like one improbable idea attached to the next which leads to the next and so on and so on.

If BB is really on to something with his theories, all I can do is tip my hat to him if they pan out - I just have a hard time grasping all his ideas.

Cya Friday - looking forward to it.

 

[Oroblanco]

The idea that the Knights Templar could have transmitted the knowledge of rich gold mines in Arizona to Mesoamerican civilization seems like quite a long shot to me. Is it impossible? No, just think of the probabilities - a religious-cult group which was based in the Mediterranean, would have gained knowledge of secret gold mines in what is today Arizona, then have encountered Aztec (or other Mesoamerican culture) and given them the knowledge of the mines, would be as likely as having the Delaware Indians invent Chinese writing and teaching it to the Chinese. We do not know to what extent the Knights Templar knew of world geography, but the evidence that exists strongly suggests that they had a dim awareness of some land across the Atlantic, but if the source of their knowledge was Norse (and this appears to be the only possible source, via the Vatican) then they probably believed it was just a large island, which took in the NE part of the continent. This would fit with the voyage of Henry Sinclair, and there is no reason to think that Sinclair voyaged any farther south than Massachusetts, and his voyage was singular - no return visits. So for this idea to work, we would have Sinclair landing some sort of overland expedition in what is today New England, then proceeding by foot across the breadth of the continent, with no bridges across any of the rivers or streams, and south into centrail Mexico where they must then have some kind of interaction with Aztecs who then gain the knowledge of the mines in Arizona. So yes it is possible, but just seems very unlikely (to me anyway) and it is difficult to make this theory fit with evidence. How is it that our Knights Templar would have gained knowledge of secret gold mines in Arizona in the first place? From the Norse? Why would the Norse have shared such knowledge with anyone, even if they knew of it? How would the Norse have learned of them, by making extensive prospecting expeditions across the continent, expeditions which would have been penetrating even into such forbidding and hostile regions as the Superstitions? There is no evidence that the Norse were aware of ANY kind of metallic mineral deposits in America, which does not support the idea of Norse finding secret mines in the Superstitions.

All this makes for interesting postulating and discussion, but just seems a highly unlikely scenario. Just my own opinion, and to be honest I rather hate being such a skeptic at times but I just cannot connect these dots and make good sense of them. And I am NOT now claiming that the Delaware Indians invented Chinese writing and taught it to the Chinese!

Oroblanco