Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[TallTx]

Garry,

Believe I looked into the history of Fort Hondo a number of years ago. Probably shared it with you, but don't recall much information being available.

Take care,

Joe

Here are only two references I could find. Both were military stations, not actual Forts

Military Station at Castroville*(Landmark Inn State Historic Site)(1849), CastrovilleA Federal post. Of interest here is the Landmark Inn at 402 East Florence Street, which was built in 1849. (US station)

Hondo Creek Station*(1840), near Biry. A Texas Army outpost located at the Hondo Creek crossing of the old road to the Presidio del Rio Grande (Guerrero, Coahuila State). (Texas)

 

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[Old]

Available references for Fort Hondo are pretty thin.

There was a Fort Lincoln in the time period near D'Hanis. Fort Lincoln est. 1849, named for Capt. George Lincoln, was one of the string of 8 such forts from the Rio Grande to Red River. Seems unlikely there would have been another true "fort" this close.

 

[TallTx]

Link to Texas stage trails.
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/arc/maps/images/map1591.jpg

While Castroville was a main intersection west of San Antonio, and numerous citings of this being main way point for San Antonio-El Paso trail, I have found zero references to there being a fort in the area.
Daughters of Republic Of Texas (Historical Society) in Austin could provide help in research.

 

[cactusjumper]

I am looking for a copy of the Superstition Mountain Journal, Vol 4.
If you have a copy to lend, I would appreciate reading it.
Thank you!


Hal

Hal,

I have a copy of the journal, volume 4, printed in 1985. Is that what you are looking for?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,
Thank you for the kind offer.
A digital copy arrived in my inbox this morning.


I thought that you might appreciate reading the names in this article. Life is full of coincidences.

View attachment 1344033
​

Hal,

Glad you got what you were looking for. Which article were you interested in?

It's really no coincidence......those damn Italians are everywhere.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,
Thank you for the kind offer.
A digital copy arrived in my inbox this morning.


I thought that you might appreciate reading the names in this article. Life is full of coincidences.

View attachment 1344033
​

Hal,

For me, the more interesting LDM/Italian connections can be found in Morenci.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[sdcfia]

Even more interesting is the history of Jewish pioneers who settled Arizona.

San Luis Valley CO. Jewish blood from the earliest days of the conquest.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cry...rome..69i57.9975j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Worse than the Oirish Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

"Salizar had formerly lived in Florence, Ariz. There in 1924, ...

Here he was introduced to a Spaniard of aristocratic bearing, who had recently arrived from Santander, Spain, via Vera Cruz and Mexico City.

His name was Christobal Peralta. He had been born and raised in Mexico, and was, at the time, 72 years of age."

The Salizar Survey
Clay Worst - 25 February, 1984
​

For the benefit of those who may want to look it up, it's "The Salazar Survey".

 

[Injunbro]

Great Grandpa knew both Walz & Peralta during his time scouting for the cavalry. The "Santa _____ River" where Miguel Peralta grazed his cattle is the Santa Maria River NW of Wickenburg, it starts near one of my relatives ranch & runs into Alamo Lake. The store he owned is still there but no longer a mercantile. The Valencia Mine is off the Bumble Bee road between the I-17 exit & the "town" of Bumble Bee, it was sold, renamed the Gloriana & worked out, he had a small store there briefly. At one time it was bought by James Reavis (remember the big Reavis land scam?) so he'd have documents w/ the Peralta name to screw up & claim a phony Spanish land grant (there was a small Peralta land grant elsewhere but that was lost after the Reavis scam). Jacob Walz (German spelling, but pronounced Waltz leading to a lot of confusion) owned a mine nearby (the Big Reb) that was sold & re-named & worked out Walz cached some gold from his mine nearby but it's been removed. Many folks confuse Miguel Peralta w/ his ancestor of the same name, the younger one was Walz's friend. If anyone wants directions to either mine send me a PM - it's not the LDM. By the same token if enough folks here want information on Great Grandpa & his AZ years scouting, smuggling, mining, & his treasure/guns cache, meeting Geronimo (they hated each other), etc. (some verified in newspaper accounts) send me a PM & I'll start a thread.

 

[sgtfda]

I for one would love to see what you have to say.

 

[Injunbro]

"The Peralta family was part of the group of settlers that arrived in Alta California in 1776 on the famous de Anza expedition. Seventeen-year-old Luis Maria Peralta accompanied his father, mother and three siblings. This group of settlers subsequently helped found the San Francisco Presidio, Mission Santa Clara, and the pueblo of San Jose.


In 1820, Rancho San Antonio was given to Luís Peralta with the requirement that he establish a permanent dwelling on the property within one year."

Read more about Rancho San Antonio here: (Berkeley, Piedmont, Claremont, Emeryville, Lake Merritt, West Oakland, Alameda) Map of the Ranchos of Vicente & Domingo <b style="color:black;background-color:#ffff66">Peralta</b> Containing 16970.68 Acres Surveyed by Julius Kellersberger . . . Surv

Interesting. I didn't know about the Vicente Peralta grant in California. There was also a small Peralta Grant in SE Arizona.

 

[Oroblanco]

Great posts Hal and Injunbro - please do continue!

 

[Old]

Very interesting Hal,

Question, how are you overcoming the Latin American custom of using the material surname as the last surname?

This has always been my stumbling block in tracing the various Peralta connected men.

Not saying your work is wrong........on the contrary, it looks very right. My dilemma has been the short cuts of the American style of indexing (last, first) with the result being the loss of the first (paternal) surname.

 

[markmar]

Hal

Also , Cristobal could been Rafael's son .
The article is for free on the web at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...n/ruth/clark/Salazar Survey by Clay Worst.pdf

Also , this article shows how the gold bars which are allegedly in the Superstitions , are not related to the Peraltas , because why they would need to mine a winter season when they could bring some bars and go ?

 

[audigger53]

Hal

Also , Cristobal could been Rafael's son .
The article is for free on the web at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...n/ruth/clark/Salazar Survey by Clay Worst.pdf

Also , this article shows how the gold bars which are allegedly in the Superstitions , are not related to the Peraltas , because why they would need to mine a winter season when they could bring some bars and go ?

This might also be of interest.
North Star data. Understanding Astronomy: Motion of the Stars
Also this might be of interest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_star

 

[deducer]

Sounds like you read the story.

Amazing to read that Bartlett and Rice both understood the mistakes these treasure hunters were making and, that their warnings were ignored. The map that is is said to relate to this story is almost impossible to make any sense of because so many of the descriptions and objects are misplaced. Spend enough time with it and it becomes clear that, while it is a "map", it is also a set of instructions that tell you how to use it. Once you know how to use it, you follow the instructions to a place where you can see your destination(s). Meaning, you can see where it is that you want to get to.

In my mind, establishing a base camp would be a priority for any expedition into the Superstitions. That means water, food, grass, accessibility to whatever it is they were mining, and somehow, some level of safety. How safety was possible in 53' with the Apache hatred for Mexicans is anyone's guess.

Hal,

Marsh Valley meets all of those criteria plus it had Black Mountain as a backdrop, so your back was covered and all you really had to keep an eye on was either direction of Labarge Canyon. Red hills are in front of you and you have a year- round deep spring at Charlebois, right around the corner. This place was quite adequate for supporting 100 or more.

Also, just off the Terrapin trail, before the pass and just north of Weaver's needle, there's the remnant of a huge curved stone wall that apparently acted as a water catch basin. I have pictures of it somewhere and I'll see if I can dig it up. Due to its location, I doubt it is of Indian origin, or that it had any cattle-related purpose.

 

[sdcfia]

Sounds like you read the story.

Amazing to read that Bartlett and Rice both understood the mistakes these treasure hunters were making and, that their warnings were ignored. The map that is is said to relate to this story is almost impossible to make any sense of because so many of the descriptions and objects are misplaced. Spend enough time with it and it becomes clear that, while it is a "map", it is also a set of instructions that tell you how to use it. Once you know how to use it, you follow the instructions to a place where you can see your destination(s). Meaning, you can see where it is that you want to get to.

In my mind, establishing a base camp would be a priority for any expedition into the Superstitions. That means water, food, grass, accessibility to whatever it is they were mining, and somehow, some level of safety. How safety was possible in 53' with the Apache hatred for Mexicans is anyone's guess.

Unfortunately, the only information that Salazar recalled from the alleged Peralta family map establishes the north meridian from Weaver's Needle. Since the date of the survey was emphasized, the most logical reason might be that an observation of a star alignment from Weaver's Needle relative to the baseline could point to a spot on the horizon. For example, at a specific time on that date, a line drawn between two stars, say Dubhe and Merak, would extend to a specific point on the horizon, as viewed from Weavers Needle. Then a searcher need only travel in that direction to look for additional information. Trouble is, the star line and time of observation are unknown - or were to Salazar. Salazar "realized, regretfully, that the Spanish map contained much other data which he had not enough time to memorize." If any of this story is true, it's no wonder later surveying work came to naught.

The photographic twist is interesting, but assumes cutting edge technology for the day being used by the Peraltas. These photographs would have predated all but a handful of photographs known to have been taken prior to 1860 in Arizona (studio portraits) - http://www.ahfweb.org/download/SubjectPhoto_FPC_100.pdf . It's a good idea and technically possible, but faces long odds.

 

[deducer]

I would imagine that there are several safe locations.
Still, we would have to explain how or, why the Apache left them alone (overwhelming firepower, remaining undetected or, some type of arrangement based on trade?) because, a Peralta "massacre", at least on that last expedition into the Superstitions (winter 1853-54) does not appear to have happened.

Hal,

It may have not happened on paper, but there seems to be plenty of proof that something did happen out there. I have seen plenty of things in the Superstitions that should not have happened according to White Man's history.

Most likely that the Apache knew from the start and resented it, but did not or could not do anything due to being outnumbered. They had no need to travel in such large numbers, after all. My guess is that the massacre was the result of some sort of "perfect storm" where there were a sufficient number of Apache gathered in the area as well as reinforcements close enough to muster in a matter of hours, or other tribes willing to form a temporary pact.

Keep up the good work. I enjoy the history you are turning up with your research.

 

[azdave35]

hal....for a region that is all volcanic and supposed to be void of any minerals there sure is alot of mines in the superstitions...and i dont mean just test holes...most were pretty extensive operations....something to think about