the 1715 fleet -- queens jewels --english pirates and govenors --and letters

[ivan salis]

ah heres an interesting story -- that thru much research and some logic I've put together -- enjoy

in 1715 the spanish treasure fleet left havana , cuba * -- 11 spanish vessels and one french vessel (6 vessels in echeverz's "fleet"-- 5 vessels in ubilla's fleet ---with ubilla being senoir -he was in overall command of the joint fleet) -- part of the treasure carried was "dowery" or wedding gifts for the queen of spain--- the king was a well known sex feind and the wife wanted her "jewels" --the king was needless to say "eager" to butter up his wife to gain her "favors" and the country was in dire need of the silver in the fleet to pay its debts with.

so much so that against advice not to he ordered the fleet to set sail for spain -- off of florida disaster struck -- all 11 spanish vessels sank with only the french vessel surviving (because she had broken away from the spanish treasure fleet two days before the main storm struck the fleet and not being overloaded like the spanish vessels were -she was much faster and had ran a much differant course as well.

after the wrecks occured* the survivors sent lifeboats off the wrecked ships for help to both st augustine and back to havana

once word reached havana of the wrecks --the govenor of cuba knowing of the royal treasure onboard as well as the badly needed silver sent several "rescue and recovery" vessels

one of these vessels was sent in on a "special task" ---it was sent to recover the "royal items" that had been recoverd so far and high ranking VIP's and take them onward to spain . (the govenor of cuba knew once the word got out of the wrecks that pillagers would soon show up -- so best to get the VIP'S and ROYAL ITEMS out of there fast)

some of the english govenors backed english "silver raiders" (pirates) === its well known that the govenor of jamaica (HAMILTON) backed henry jennings as well as many others --that preyed upon the spanish wreck site --the english also had a rather good spy network that kept tabs on the spanish as well.

GOVENOR SPOTSWOOD OF VIRGINA also did the same as well *-- in a letter dated Oct 24th of 1715 to the british home sec STANHOPE (in it spotswood is basically asking stanhope to get the kings "royal" ok / backing for him to salvage the wreck site )-- ( spotwood in a P.S. at the bottom noted) --that a barcalonga that was sent from havana to the 1715 fleet wreck sites to pick up vips and treasure from the wrecked fleet was castaway about 40 miles NORTH OF ST AUGUSTINE . (nassau sound-- between little talbot and amelia island) SADLY THIS AREA SINCE NOVEMBER 24TH, 1969--HAS BEEN A "AQUATIC PRESERVE ZONE" ( ISN'T IT QUITE ODD HOW SHORTLY AFTER MEL FISHER HIT IT BIG --- THAT MANY PLACES IN FLORDA WHERE VALUIBLE SHIP WRECKS MIGHT LIE BECAME "PROTECTED" AREAS IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER VERY QUICKLY --THUS NO PERMITS WILL BE ISSUED BY THE STATE OF FLORIDA TO HARVEST SAID WRECK . -- THE LOCATION OF WHICH I FOUND ON A NOVEMBER OF 1769 MAP OF AMELIA ISLAND MADE BY CAPT WILLIAM FULLER OF ENGLAND --THE MAP WAS MADE FOR LORD EGMONT OF ENGLAND *the english "owner" of amelia island at the time ( the english took over florida in 1763 from spain --spain regained florida in 1783)

spotswood most likely got his information from "english" silver raiding pirates that came upon the spanish shipwreck survivors at nassau sound --while enroute southward coming from virginia towards the main 1715 fleet silver recovery campsites to pillage the spanish -- sadly the nassau sound wreck spanish survivors not knowing that these were pirates "spilled the beans" about who and what they were --once the english pirates knew that they had aspanish treasure filled wreck that was "unknown" to the spanish officals --the nassau sound survivors weren't survivors anymore. --(the pirates however not having the specialized diving gear needed to get to it --figgered to get govenor spotswood involved in assisting them to gett to the treasure ( they most likely told him it was a wrecksite == lleaving t out the killing of the survivors part no doubt)--- they related the tale to spotswood who then asked for the royal ok to go after it. (thus covering his backside by doing so)--- or esle spotswoods spys found out about it somehow .

either way in the letter spotswood clearly shows a deep and detailed knowledge of the vessel in question ---he knows the type of vessel --(barcalonga) --where it came from (havana)--where it went to (the fleet wreck site) --what it was doing (acting as a VIP and treasure rocovery vessel) and its cargo -- VIPS and treasure as well as knowledge of its "wreck site"-- this is not guess work -- he "KNEW" this information --plus he would not bother to ask for the the kings approval to harvest the wreck site if his info was not solid. (to do so would make him look a fool )

this wreck helps explain why spanish 1715 era items have been found in the nassau sound area --in the past (pre AQUATIC PRESERVE ZONE)---due to 1715 era spanish items being found in the nassau sound area and the fact that there were a couple 1715 fleet vessels unaccounted for some folks thought it was one of the missing "origilnal" fleet vessels . --- this vessel although smaller in size than the missing "original" 1715 fleet vessels were --would have "prime high value items onboard her" thus making her a small but highly valuible vessel. --- (lf someone could get to her legally that is)


for those who want to see it for themselves --

the Oct 24th , 1715 spotswood letter is veiwible via the the online "special" collection at the university of michigan -- its in the second volume of book written by the virginia historical society in 1882 (by brock) detailing govenor alexander spotswoods letters*

the map of 1769 is viewible at the british national maritime web site --under fuller map 1769 amelia island

 

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[itmaiden]

Funny, whenever Florida finds out about a possible wreck site, that it becomes a "preserve". In fact, probably a good way to tell about anything Florida may be hiding as well. They claim there are no hidden items in their vault etc that the public is unaware of. An acquaintance of mine knows for a fact otherwise.

It would be a shame for Florida to hide history from the rest of us who love to learn about these things. I got the iimpression that what they have in the vault that they are not telling the public about is because of some other historical truth they do not want them to know about the site it was found at.

ah heres an interesting story -- that thru much research and some logic I've put it together

in 1715 the spanish treasure fleet left havana , cuba * -- 11 spanish vessels and one french vessel (6 vessels in echeverz's "fleet"-- 5 vessels in ubilla's fleet ---with ubilla being senoir -he was in overall command of the joint fleet) -- part of the treasure carried was "dowery" or wedding gifts for the queen of spain--- the king was a well known sex feind and the wife wanted her "jewels" --the king was needless to say "eager" to butter up his wife to gain her "favors" and the country was in dire need of the silver in the fleet to pay its debts with.

so much so that against advice not to he ordered the fleet to set sail for spain -- off of florida disaster struck -- all 11 spanish vessels sank with only the french vessel surviving (because she had broken away from the spanish treasure fleet two days before the main storm struck the fleet and not being overloaded like the spanish vessels were -she was much faster and had ran a much differant course as well.

after the wrecks occured* the survivors sent lifeboats off the wrecked ships for help to both st augustine and back to havana

once word reached havana of the wrecks --the govenor of cuba knowing of the royal treasure onboard as well as the badly needed silver sent several "rescue and recovery" vessels

one of these vessels was sent in on a "special task" ---it was sent to recover the "royal items" that had been recoverd so far and high ranking VIP's and take them onward to spain . (the govenor of cuba knew once the word got out of the wrecks that pillagers would soon show up -- so best to get the VIP'S and ROYAL ITEMS out of there fast)

some of the english govenors backed english "silver raiders" (pirates) ===like henry jennings as well as many others --that preyed upon the spanish wreck site --the english also had a rather good spy network that kept tabs on the spanish as well.

GOVENOR SPOTSWOOD OF VIRGINA was just one such person*-- in a letter dated Oct 24th of 1715 to the british home sec STANHOPE (in it spotswood is basically asking stanhope to get the kings "royal" ok / backing for him to salvage the wreck site )-- ( spotwood in a P.S. at the bottom noted) --that a barcalonga that was sent from havana to the 1715 fleet wreck sites to pick up vips and treasure from the wrecked fleet was castaway about 40 miles NORTH OF ST AUGUSTINE . (nassau sound-- between little talbot and amelia island) SADLY THIS AREA IS NOW AN "AQUATIC PRESERVE ZONE" --THUS NO PERMITS WILL BE ISSUED BY THE STATE OF FLORIDA TO HARVEST SAID WRECK . -- WHICH i FOUND IN A NOVEMBER OF 1769 MAP MADE BY CAPT WILLIAM FULLER OF ENGLAND --THE MAP WAS MADE FOR LORD EGMONT OF ENGLAND *the english "owner" of amelia island at the time ( the english took over florida in 1763 from spain --spain regained florida in 1783)

spotswood most likely got his information from "english" silver raiding pirates that came upon the spanish shipwreck survivors at nassau sound --while enroute southward coming from virginia towards the main 1715 fleet silver recovery campsites to pillage the spanish -- sadly the nassau sound wreck spanish survivors not knowing that these were pirates "spilled the beans" about who and what they were --once the english pirates knew that they had aspanish treasure filled wreck that was "unknown" to the spanish officals --the nassau sound survivors weren't survivors anymore. --(the pirates however not having the specialized diving gear needed to get to it --figgered to get govenor spotswood involved in assisting them to gett to the treasure ( they most likely told him it was a wrecksite == lleaving t out the killing of the survivors part no doubt)--- they related the tale to spotswood who then asked for the royal ok to go after it. (thus covering his baclkside by doing so)--- or esle spotswoods spys found out about it somehow .

either way in the letter spotswood clearly shows a deep and detailed knowledge of the vessel in question ---he knows the type of vessel --(barcalonga) --where it came from (havana)--where it went to (the fleet wreck site) --what it was doing (acting as a VIP and treasure rocovery vessel) and its cargo -- VIPS and treasure as well as knowledge of its "wreck site"-- this is not guess work -- he "KNEW" this information --plus he would not bother to ask for the the kings approval to harvest the wreck site if his info was not solid. (to do so would make him look a fool )

this wreck helps explain why spanish 1715 era items have been found in the nassau sound area --in the past (pre AQUATIC PRESERVE ZONE)---due to 1715 era spanish items being found in the nassau sound area and the fact that there were a couple 1715 fleet vessels unaccounted for some folks thought it was one of the missing "origilnal" fleet vessels . --- this vessel although smaller in size than the missing "original" 1715 fleet vessels were --would have "prime high value items onboard her" thus making her a small but highly valuible vessel. --- (lf someone could get to her legally that is)

 

[sabre15]

I would like to know what Tallahassee has and knows!
Good work Ivan, now lets go to your neck of the woods and inspect the preserve area.

 

[ivan salis]

oh yes the wreck is there trust me -- I know that for sure --- but --with no state "permits" --you can not touch the wreck legally and if you do it illegally --its off to jail with you **** for "looting" a wreck site ( the state would love for me to screw up that way --then they could "strip" me of any and all salvage rights since I would then be a "convicted looter"( a person can not profeit from a crime)-- and after all the work and effort I've invested --- I'm not going to stumble at the finish line now --- the state not long ago did "beach renourishment" work on the southern tip of amelia island --- thus moving sand in the "aquatic preserve zone" -- messing up the "laquatic preserve's sea bed " --- by the way ---not wanting to "disturb the area" is the "main" reason they say that you can not have a permit * well simply put that excuse will not do --- in light of the recent beach renourishments that the state "allowed" to occur ---(they not only stirred up the sand --they actually removed it and moved it up to the beach !!! ) which is far more disruptive than just blowing holes for treasure hunting since the holes would be rapidly refilled by the areastidal action .

the state can not allow one group to do something but not another group -- thats discrimanation 101. plain and simple -- because if one group gets to do sand disturbing activities so does the other.

 

[FISHEYE]

Ivan,

Is the fishing or lobster good in the area of the wreck?

 

[ivan salis]

if a boat anchors in daylight hours to fish or for divers to spear "fish" in that spot count on a visit from the local fish and game and other state folks (they are merely dumb not totally retarded they can put 2 and 2 together even if they do come up with 22) ---fishing after 5 pm when the guys on the clock go home aka as "night fishing" reportly had been known to be productive in the past according to the word on the street -- I hope to get my permits to legally salvage the wreck site -- that way I can catch some fish from there myself before the area gets totally fished out -- nothing better than golden grouper or silver trout--- mmmm good

 

[deepsix47]

The fact that an area suddenly becomes a preserve of some type is common not only with the individual States but with the Federal government as well when something of great value is found. As far as what is being hidden in the vault goes, there is an even more interesting question to my thinking. What should be in the vault and is not? An independent audit would prove very interesting.

Deepsix

 

[Bill_T]

for those who want to see it for themselves --

the Oct 24th , 1715 spotswood letter is veiwible via the the online "special" collection at the university of michigan -- its in the second volume of book written by the virginia historical society in 1882 (by brock) detailing govenor alexander spotswoods letters*

the map of 1769 is viewible at the british national maritime web site --under fuller map 1769 amelia island

I am new to the research side of finding wrecks and wanted to thank you for this excellent example of how it pays to do your homework and how much information is available online.

The NOAA online chart doesn't show a protected area. Is that a State of Florida designation?

Thanks

 

[ivan salis]

yep -- florida state "aquatic preseve zone"

 

[itmaiden]

Good luck on that one. I tried to get an audit done on another area of question in this state and there was plenty reason to back the request. I basically got laughed out of the town hall meeting by our own state representatives. Perhaps some of them had some shame of their own huh ?

itmaiden

The fact that an area suddenly becomes a preserve of some type is common not only with the individual States but with the Federal government as well when something of great value is found. As far as what is being hidden in the vault goes, there is an even more interesting question to my thinking. What should be in the vault and is not? An independent audit would prove very interesting.

Deepsix