THE IRON BOX: Now its mentioned, now its not

[Rebel - KGC]

TWO of 'em already have... or at least "guided" by SPIRITS. Another one by a MUSE...

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Cryptography]

So then if the box was a small box made in 1820 or so we should have a good idea what looks like. Not many iron boxes were made at the time for commercial sale. It may be very possible with a little research to find the exact box that would have been use for a strong box for Beale.

 

[ECS]

It looks like whatever one imagines it to look like.

 

[bigscoop]

So then if the box was a small box made in 1820 or so we should have a good idea what looks like. Not many iron boxes were made at the time for commercial sale. It may be very possible with a little research to find the exact box that would have been use for a strong box for Beale.

You're kidding, right? Anyone who has spent much time researching early shipping etc., is fully aware of the "many-many" different types and sizes of strong boxes that were used, many of them even being made by the local blacksmith......."iron box" could be representative of everything from a large strong box to a tiny lock box, perhaps plain, perhaps decorative, so you're clearly kidding yourself here if you think you can narrow down what this imaginary iron might have looked like. Wonder why the author didn't describe that imaginary box to his readers?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This thread started with the Iron Box, it was mentioned in some accounts and not in others, this is not a proof of validity or not, some felt the box was important and others did not. Its like listening to a car guy give you all the details of his car and all you wanted you know is the one detail he doesn't give you, the "color"

Nah; the question is... "Does it run?"

 

[Cryptography]

So then if the box was a small box made in 1820 or so we should have a good idea what looks like. Not many iron boxes were made at the time for commercial sale. It may be very possible with a little research to find the exact box that would have been use for a strong box for Beale.

In 1820 there were a lot of iron boxes come over from France. The start of the iron over oak boxes small and a bit fancy.

 

[ECS]

That must explain the use of "connexion" in the Beale Papers, Crypto.

 

[ECS]

"In the spring, about this time, he (Beale) again left, but before doing so, handed me (Morriss) the box".-The Beale Papers

The iron box, with the ciphers , according to the job print pamphlet was in the possession of Robert Morriss when he was at his niece's (Anzoletta Saunders) home when he told the story to the "unknown author".
"the required promise was given, and the box and contents were placed in my ("unknown author") hands".

This "unknown author" had possession of the iron box, ciphers, and letters since the "2nd year of the Confederate War", then he contacted James Beverly Ward:
"The gentleman whom I have selected as my agent...was ignorant of this episode in Mr Morriss' career, until the manuscript was placed in his hands".

Ward only received the finished manuscript written by and from this "unknown author", but never saw the iron box, the ciphers the letters-
What became of the iron box and this "unknown author"?

N H Hazelwood involved the Hart brothers by having Clayton Hart copy papers covered with numbers, without mentioning Thomas J Beale...
...and most important, NO MENTION of the iron box, and the HART PAPERS never mentions the iron box.

Then in the early 1960's, George Hart introduces Pauline Innis to a member of the Otey family, who shows Innis an iron box with that numbers covered torn slip of paper.

When did George Hart learn about this iron box considering that an iron box was never mentioned in the HART PAPERS, how did the Otey family come into possession of this iron box, AND, most important, is this the iron box the "unknown author" received from Robert Morriss as mentioned in the Beale Papers.

If this is "THE IRON BOX", there are several missing links in the chain of possession before it was shown to Innis.
...AND, as with anything claimed to be connected to the Beale story, whereabouts unknown.

In THE HART PAPERS, it is mentioned that Mr Otey is the first cousin of George Hart's wife, and Mr Otey is quoted with a story in THE HART PAPERS,..BUT never mentions this iron box with the torn slip of numbers covered paper.
This torn slip of paper was covered with randomly placed numbers that DID NOT match the three sheets of ciphers numbered in order of length by the "unknown author" of THE BEALE PAPERS, or the eights sheets of ciphers that N H Hazelwood gave to Clayton Hart to make copies.

So what is the true provenance of this iron box and torn slip of paper that was shown Pauline Innis that launched GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE and a myriad of treasure magazine articles that brought the Beale treasure story forth from local legend obscurity to the wide audience of today?

 

[ECS]

GREAT QUESTIONS! ...

...and the BIG question, who initiated the contact between Hart and Innis that led to the Otey iron box and the Beale treasure story being rewritten and published in the 1960's?

 

[franklin]

...and the BIG question, who initiated the contact between Hart and Innis that led to the Otey iron box and the Beale treasure story being rewritten and published in the 1960's?

While up there with her husband, she most likely contacted her next of kin, the Harts. I know they were kin but I do not have the records to verify.

 

[ECS]

Pauline Innis?
She was born December 8,1917 in Torquay, South Devon, England as Pauline Bertha Lee-Jones, an only child.
If she was related as "next to kin" to the Harts, it was not "next to" and very distant.
After arriving in the United States in the 1950's, she married US Navy Rear Adm Walter D Innis in 1959.
Jan 1,1952 is the date given by George L Hart for THE HART PAPERS.
Pauline Innis was best friends with psychic Jeanne Dixon, and she also gave readings to guests at Washington DC parties based on her studies of "astronumerology" and the "birth matrix secrets of the Druids".
Perhaps she was attracted to the Beale story because of the "medium" that was employed by Clayton Hart as detailed in THE HART PAPERS.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Maybe so; look into Astronumerology…

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MAYBE, PI was trying to be the "NEW" medium to "find" the place. BOTH she & her husband had a "psychic" experience in the mountains looking for the B.T.; it is in her book.

 

[franklin]

Pauline Innis?
She was born December 8,1917 in Torquay, South Devon, England as Pauline Bertha Lee-Jones, an only child.
If she was related as "next to kin" to the Harts, it was not "next to" and very distant.
After arriving in the United States in the 1950's, she married US Navy Rear Adm Walter D Innis in 1959.
Jan 1,1952 is the date given by George L Hart for THE HART PAPERS.
Pauline Innis was best friends with psychic Jeanne Dixon, and she also gave readings to guests at Washington DC parties based on her studies of "astronumerology" and the "birth matrix secrets of the Druids".
Perhaps she was attracted to the Beale story because of the "medium" that was employed by Clayton Hart as detailed in THE HART PAPERS.

I still say they were kin. The information you posted has been posted by you before. So nothing new.

 

[ECS]

Pauline Innis drew much of her Beale information from THE HART PAPERS, and their GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE is responsible for introducing the Beale treasure story, which up until that point was still a local Virginia treasure tale.
Is it possible that George L Hart used Mr Otey (mentioned in THE HART PAPERS) and the iron box with torn slip of paper containing handwritten random numbers (NOT mentioned in THE HART PAPERS) as a prop to lure Pauline Innis into the Beale story, knowing her penchant for "readings" and her books?

 

[ECS]

I still say they were kin. The information you posted has been posted by you before. So nothing new.

Saying they are kin and providing proof of that statement are not the same.
How were they kin?
That is like claiming Robert Morriss of the Beale story is related to Robert Morris Jr signer of the DOI.
In all reality, there is nothing new that can be posted to prove the story in the Beale Papers is nothing more than a fictional period dime novel with parlor entertainment play along ciphers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Saying they are kin and providing proof of that statement are not the same.
How were they kin?
That is like claiming Robert Morriss of the Beale story is related to Robert Morris Jr signer of the DOI.

LOL! Maybe, they WERE...

 

[ECS]

...it has been proven that they were not...LOL!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Saying they are kin and providing proof of that statement are not the same.
How were they kin?
That is like claiming Robert Morriss of the Beale story is related to Robert Morris Jr signer of the DOI.
In all reality, there is nothing new that can be posted to prove the story in the Beale Papers is nothing more than a fictional period dime novel with parlor entertainment play along ciphers.

YEP! That is YOUR "Reality"... can YOU prove it...?

 

[ECS]

Anyone can with a genealogy search, and that has been presented on another thread.