The laws in the US.

[Dave44]

Dave,

It is not that the psychopath does not know where the line is; the psychopath does not know the line exists. It is very difficult to truly understand the mind of psychopaths. They do not see people as 'people.' They see them as objects. We discuss/debate each other we know that there is a caring/emotional person on the other end of the keyboard. We don't agree most of the time but, we seek to understand and learn from each other. When you sit down and discuss/debate with a psychopath on the computer it is different. It is not different from your side...but it is different from the psychopath's side. The psychopath has no idea, concept, or care for your emotions, thoughts, feelings, or what you are trying to learn. The psychopath sees you as an object. You are viewed as a material thing to provide the psychopath with some need. You are not alive to the psychopath. The psychopath uses you to gain what he needs and then discards you as if you never existed. Psychopaths go through life doing this with everybody they meet.

So, what would a psychopath gain from being on TNet? Good question, Dave, I'm glad you asked it. It is possible that a psychopath could scam somebody on here for getting money or material things...but fairly unlikely; there are much easier targets in this world. Psychopaths consider themselves to be infinitely smarter than everybody else. Furthermore, they take pleasure in hurting others emotionally and (in their opinion) making them look bad. It validates their narcisistic ego.

It is easy to spot a psychopath on TNET. Very rarely will they give their own opinion on something. By giving their own opinion it would open them up to criticism. They cannot tolerate criticism in any form and will react violently to it. Instead of giving their own opinion they will quote others or just hit the 'like' button on others' opinions instead. That way, if the opinion is criticized it has nothing to do with them. A psychopath keeps their comments very short. The less words they post, the safer they are. Most of a psychopath's posts have very little thought in them and are generalized statements that cannot be proved or disproved. Psychopath's comments will escalate very rapidly to insults; both insinuated and direct. At first sign of feeling like they are wrong their fragile ego breaks and they lash out violently. They are unable to process any emotions internally and must direct all personal feelings outwards...in the form of attacks. Lastly, a psychopath will laugh at and belittle others' posts. They consider their own knowledge so superior that anybody who doesn't agree with it is comical to them. They are unable to consider any opinion other then their own.

Psychopaths are everywhere in society. With over 50,000 members on TNET, you can bet there a few hanging around here.

Respectfully,
Crispin

Is this the Clinical definition Crispin? It looks like it could be a pointed rant against someone. I have experienced a lot of this and if this is the norm for psychopaths there would be a great many on Tnet that would be suspect. I believe that people get irritated, some get personal for awhile, some hold grudges and some are downright nasty, but that is the way of the world..

See if you can count on your hand how many people in real life you get to express all of your ideas with. It would be amazing if it were more than 4, and if it were I bet you would find that you have rubbed alot of people the wrong way, because they are not part of your inner circle. My point is we all gravitate to the waters that are comfortable to us, (inner circle), But outside of that are many different types, I would not call most of them my friend, only an acquaintance that happens to know my veiwpoints and cannot stand them!

I will call you friend, even though we do not see eye to eye at times we have a sort of kinship. What say you Crispin?

 

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[Crispin]

Is this the Clinical definition Crispin? It looks like it could be a pointed rant against someone. I have experienced a lot of this and if this is the norm for psychopaths there would be a great many on Tnet that would be suspect. I believe that people get irritated, some get personal for awhile, some hold grudges and some are downright nasty, but that is the way of the world..

See if you can count on your hand how many people in real life you get to express all of your ideas with. It would be amazing if it were more than 4, and if it were I bet you would find that you have rubbed alot of people the wrong way, because they are not part of your inner circle. My point is we all gravitate to the waters that are comfortable to us, (inner circle), But outside of that are many different types, I would not call most of them my friend, only an acquaintance that happens to know my veiwpoints and cannot stand them!

I will call you friend, even though we do not see eye to eye at times we have a sort of kinship. What say you Crispin?

Dave, great questions and posts! First off, I considered you a friend shortly after we started exchanging ideas. I'm going to put a couple of things out here for people to consider and then answer more specifically your questions. Hervey Cleckley was the pioneer in this field of psychiatry. He developed the original sociopathy checklist. Here are the highlights...
Keep in mind that somebody needs not have all of these:

1.Superficial charm and good intelligence
2.Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking
3.Absence of nervousness or psychoneurotic manifestations
4.Unreliability
5.Untruthfulness and insincerity
6.Lack of remorse and shame
7.Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior
8.Poor judgment and failure to learn by experience
9.Pathologic egocentricity and incapacity for love
10.General poverty in major affective reactions
11.Specific loss of insight
12.Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations
13.Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink and sometimes without
14.Suicide threats rarely carried out
15.Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated
16.Failure to follow any life plan.

 

[Crispin]

Ok: Psychopath has morphed in psychiatric/medical terms to antisocial personality disorder. Here are the latest criteria based on the DSM -IV-R.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following: 1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2.deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3.impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
The individual must be at least 18 years of age to be diagnosed with this disorder (Criterion B), but those diagnosed with ASPD as adults were commonly diagnosed with conduct disorder as children. The prevalence of this disorder is 3% in males and 1% in females, as stated in the DSM IV-TR.

 

[Crispin]

Is this the Clinical definition Crispin? It looks like it could be a pointed rant against someone. I have experienced a lot of this and if this is the norm for psychopaths there would be a great many on Tnet that would be suspect. I believe that people get irritated, some get personal for awhile, some hold grudges and some are downright nasty, but that is the way of the world..

See if you can count on your hand how many people in real life you get to express all of your ideas with. It would be amazing if it were more than 4, and if it were I bet you would find that you have rubbed alot of people the wrong way, because they are not part of your inner circle. My point is we all gravitate to the waters that are comfortable to us, (inner circle), But outside of that are many different types, I would not call most of them my friend, only an acquaintance that happens to know my veiwpoints and cannot stand them!

I will call you friend, even though we do not see eye to eye at times we have a sort of kinship. What say you Crispin?

Now, back to your original questions. Obviously, we are on the internet and we do not have a lot of personal knowledge. However, you can see these characteristics extrapolated in my previous post. What I am going to do next is reply to my original post and highlight in red where Kleckley's characteristics seem to be equivalent.

 

[Dave44]

HEY! I date her once! Cold shiver up my spine. I thought she was just a Feinstein, LOLOL ( that's funny right there). Seriously though,, there are a great many who display 1 or 6 of those traits. I personally do not associate with people that I see some of these in, but I do not see them as dangerous either. Of course, I don't play in the circles they are in, so I may not know. I find it funny how some that I cannot stand to be around have a core of people they get along with.

Dano should tell us how to write C'est la Vie here______________

 

[Crispin]

Dave,

It is not that the psychopath does not know where the line is; the psychopath does not know the line exists. It is very difficult to truly understand the mind of psychopaths. They do not see people as 'people.' They see them as objects. We discuss/debate each other we know that there is a caring/emotional person on the other end of the keyboard. We don't agree most of the time but, we seek to understand and learn from each other. When you sit down and discuss/debate with a psychopath on the computer it is different. It is not different from your side...but it is different from the psychopath's side. The psychopath has no idea, concept, or care for your emotions, thoughts, feelings, or what you are trying to learn. The psychopath sees you as an object. You are viewed as a material thing to provide the psychopath with some need. You are not alive to the psychopath. The psychopath uses you to gain what he needs and then discards you as if you never existed. Psychopaths go through life doing this with everybody they meet.

So, what would a psychopath gain from being on TNet? Good question, Dave, I'm glad you asked it. It is possible that a psychopath could scam somebody on here for getting money or material things...but fairly unlikely; there are much easier targets in this world. Psychopaths consider themselves to be infinitely smarter than everybody else. Furthermore, they take pleasure in hurting others emotionally and (in their opinion) making them look bad. It validates their narcisistic ego.

It is easy to spot a psychopath on TNET. Very rarely will they give their own opinion on something. By giving their own opinion it would open them up to criticism. They cannot tolerate criticism in any form and will react violently to it. Instead of giving their own opinion they will quote others or just hit the 'like' button on others' opinions instead. That way, if the opinion is criticized it has nothing to do with them. A psychopath keeps their comments very short. The less words they post, the safer they are. Most of a psychopath's posts have very little thought in them and are generalized statements that cannot be proved or disproved. Psychopath's comments will escalate very rapidly to insults; both insinuated and direct. At first sign of feeling like they are wrong their fragile ego breaks and they lash out violently. They are unable to process any emotions internally and must direct all personal feelings outwards...in the form of attacks. Lastly, a psychopath will laugh at and belittle others' posts. They consider their own knowledge so superior that anybody who doesn't agree with it is comical to them. They are unable to consider any opinion other then their own.

Psychopaths are everywhere in society. With over 50,000 members on TNET, you can bet there a few hanging around here.

Respectfully,
Crispin

It is not that the psychopath does not know where the line is; the psychopath does not know the line exists. It is very difficult to truly understand the mind of psychopaths. They do not see people as 'people.' They see them as objects(12.Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations). We discuss/debate each other we know that there is a caring/emotional person on the other end of the keyboard. We don't agree most of the time but, we seek to understand and learn from each other. When you sit down and discuss/debate with a psychopath on the computer it is different. It is not different from your side...but it is different from the psychopath's side. The psychopath has no idea, concept, or care for your emotions, thoughts, feelings, or what you are trying to learn(9.Pathologic egocentricity and incapacity for love.) The psychopath sees you as an object. You are viewed as a material thing to provide the psychopath with some need. You are not alive to the psychopath. The psychopath uses you to gain what he needs and then discards you as if you never existed. Psychopaths go through life doing this with everybody they meet. ( 4.Unreliability)

So, what would a psychopath gain from being on TNet? Good question, Dave, I'm glad you asked it. It is possible that a psychopath could scam somebody on here for getting money or material things...but fairly unlikely; there are much easier targets in this world. Psychopaths consider themselves to be infinitely smarter than everybody else.(1.Superficial charm and good intelligence) Furthermore, they take pleasure in hurting others emotionally and (in their opinion) making them look bad.(7.Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior) It validates their narcisistic ego.

It is easy to spot a psychopath on TNET. Very rarely will they give their own opinion on something. By giving their own opinion it would open them up to criticism. They cannot tolerate criticism in any form and will react violently to it.(13.Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink and sometimes without) Instead of giving their own opinion they will quote others or just hit the 'like' button on others' opinions instead. That way, if the opinion is criticized it has nothing to do with them. A psychopath keeps their comments very short. The less words they post, the safer they are. Most of a psychopath's posts have very little thought in them and are generalized statements that cannot be proved or disproved. Psychopath's comments will escalate very rapidly to insults; both insinuated and direct. At first sign of feeling like they are wrong their fragile ego breaks and they lash out violently. They are unable to process any emotions internally and must direct all personal feelings outwards...in the form of attacks. (11.Specific loss of insight) Lastly, a psychopath will laugh at and belittle others' posts. They consider their own knowledge so superior that anybody who doesn't agree with it is comical to them.(8.Poor judgment and failure to learn by experience) They are unable to consider any opinion other then their own.(6.Lack of remorse and shame)

Psychopaths are everywhere in society. With over 50,000 members on TNET, you can bet there a few hanging around here.

Respectfully,
Crispin

 

[Crispin]

HEY! I date her once! Cold shiver up my spine. I thought she was just a Feinstein, LOLOL ( that's funny right there). Seriously though,, there are a great many who display 1 or 6 of those traits. I personally do not associate with people that I see some of these in, but I do not see them as dangerous either. Of course, I don't play in the circles they are in, so I may not know. I find it funny how some that I cannot stand to be around have a core of people they get along with.

Dano should tell us how to write C'est la Vie here______________

Dave, my friend, I'm going to go ahead and invoke the 'nuff said argument. If anybody can find a legit source of information that disagrees then we can proceed. Also, I am happy to answer any questions. Please do not ask me to identify anybody on this forum as a psychopath...I will not do that. Interpret what you will...any association with my statements to persons lively or dead is purely coincidental.

Doc

 

[Dave44]

Ok I am gonna go for another opinion here. This does not seem to be in my area of expertise. There, I said it, what ya gonna do about it! lolol

Well then it is obvious they are all around us, when do they become dangerous?


BUT. This is outside my thread on reactive laws! Start another so we can go through it!

What do you think of giving a person the right to exist on their own and without being a nanny unless they break the law?

 

[Crispin]

Ok I am gonna go for another opinion here. This does not seem to be in my area of expertise. There, I said it, what ya gonna do about it! lolol

Well then it is obvious they are all around us, when do they become dangerous?


BUT. This is outside my thread on reactive laws! Start another so we can go through it!

What do you think of giving a person the right to exist on their own and without being a nanny unless they break the law?

Dave, this has everything to do with your thread on reactive laws. Laws are reactive because proactive laws have no effect on psychopaths! These are the lawbreakers. I'm all for starting another thread. Go ahead and start it...I'll answer questions. Threads have a much longer shelf life when they don't come from me. With one exception of course...

 

[Dave44]

Dave, this has everything to do with your thread on reactive laws. Laws are reactive because proactive laws have no effect on psychopaths! These are the lawbreakers. I'm all for starting another thread. Go ahead and start it...I'll answer questions. Threads have a much longer shelf life when they don't come from me. With one exception of course...

Wow, I am sorry I missed that one! You are obviously right about socios, but I do not think that is the reason they are reactive.The laws were written long before people knew much about this. I have to go now. Good night buddy!

 

[Crispin]

Wow, I am sorry I missed that one! You are obviously right about socios, but I do not think that is the reason they are reactive.The laws were written long before people knew much about this. I have to go now. Good night buddy!

Dave, with all due respect, I disagree,

Sociopaths have been around since the beginning of time. Just because Hervey Kleckley had not coined the term does not mean they weren't there. I think our founding fathers were smart enough to realize what they faced in this world. Ever hear of the Marquis de Sade? Attilla the Hun? Genghis Kahn? Just to name a few. Evil started in the garden of Eden and left with it. Good, moral men do not need laws! They need rules and guidelines. You and I could get along just fine without having police tell us what to do. It is those who care not for the personal rights of others that must be moderated. You can find them here on TNet...I can think of a few that come to mind. Don't ask me to name them...I would never do that.

Your friend,

Crispin

 

[Dave44]

Dave, with all due respect, I disagree,

Sociopaths have been around since the beginning of time. Just because Hervey Kleckley had not coined the term does not mean they weren't there. I think our founding fathers were smart enough to realize what they faced in this world. Ever hear of the Marquis de Sade? Attilla the Hun? Genghis Kahn? Just to name a few. Evil started in the garden of Eden and left with it. Good, moral men do not need laws! They need rules and guidelines. You and I could get along just fine without having police tell us what to do. It is those who care not for the personal rights of others that must be moderated. You can find them here on TNet...I can think of a few that come to mind. Don't ask me to name them...I would never do that.

Your friend,

Crispin

I respectfully disagree Crispin! We have laws because there should be a penalty for people that do not care where the lines are! The laws were not made for you and me, since( being Moral men) we live within the boundaries of a civilized society, the Founders knew that some people did not care about others but that all should be given the benefit of the doubt first!


Wait,, What? I think you and I have some serious similarities we may express differently? Hmmm. One day we should get a Guiness and discuss that!

 

[arnofarrell]

sorry pointless post by me.

 

[Dave44]

sorry pointless post by me.

No Sir,, Not pointless at all, Thank you for posting at any time! I always welcome your input! Please jump back in!
Dave

 

[arnofarrell]

Once someone shows some of these signs what should happen to them? So with sociopaths and psycopaths should they be rounded up? Like what Dave said earlier it would be like Minority Report, catching people before they do anything wrong. It doesn't work that way nor should it.

 

[bill from lachine]

arnoferrell,

Crispin can probably clarify.....but my take is most sociopaths or psychopaths are primarily users and not violent by nature they basically take advantage of people and discard them when they are no longer useful to them.

Most ethical people have a give and take attitude.....you share with family and friends, etc...whereas the above folks are take only types.....they eventually burn their bridges and isolate themselves from pretty much everyone in their circle.

Regards + HH

bill

 

[Crispin]

arnoferrell,

Crispin can probably clarify.....but my take is most sociopaths or psychopaths are primarily users and not violent by nature they basically take advantage of people and discard them when they are no longer useful to them.

Most ethical people have a give and take attitude.....you share with family and friends, etc...whereas the above folks are take only types.....they eventually burn their bridges and isolate themselves from pretty much everyone in their circle.

Regards + HH

bill

Bill is correct. Only a small portion of sociopaths are violent. Some categories consist of ruthless businessmen, malingering's feeding off the government system, men who abuse women and vice versa. I'm type more...but I'm on the verge of exhaustion; and apparently, due to recent sickness I have not been fulfilling my quota of TNET rabble rousing.

 

[bill from lachine]

Crispin,

Here you go.....