The Pearl Ship

[pegleglooker]

Hello Tdog,
I have thought of the Superstition Mt's as well... However, I think if it is there it would be buried pretty DEEP.... I also have not heard of anyone, finding anything, that would might lend a closer look meaning relics etc.. That is why I want to continue on the road I'm on first. About Pegleg, I have heard a couple of stories about a family or a couple of brothers ( depending which story one has heard ) that were either attacked by locals or just succumbed to the heat. I also heard that the brother angle may have been one of the Peralta's. Story goes that a Spanish family from somewhere in San Diego was on their way to Sonora and were attacked. The locals took the horse or mules and cut the bags loose where they rotted out. I have one found one source ( newspaper ) about this and it was a small blurb. I don't know if have been on the Pegleg channel here, but take a look it's pretty good... I am glad to talk about pegleg ANYTIME!!!! It's one of my passion's along with Lost Ship as well..... Enjoy !!!!

PLL

 

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[Skifisher]

A number of years ago there was a person on DesertUSA that was collecting stories about the lost pearl ship, I think thier screen name was "Luann". I checked recently but I did not see any post from them. It's possible that someone here may know them, if so could have some interesting stories. Always had good posts, and seemed like a nice person.

 

[pegleglooker]

If anyone knows this person PLEASE invite them or give them my email [email protected]

Thankx
PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey All,
In my never ending search on this subject i came across some cool foto's that I thought you might like. I pulled these from a Salton Sea website. Check out the caption on them. The James map is GREAT !!! I have a original and looking to have it framed. Let me know what you all think... Does help prove that a ship could have sailed these waters?? Check out the difference in depth on the Train dike. These photo's were taken during and after the Salton flood.
PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

COOL pix Pegleglooker!

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey guys,
I finally bought some original calico prints from 1952-53. there were several stories about the ship and one was by Adelaide Arnold. She talks about a prospector named " Butcherknife Ike ". I have posted this here before. But I now have a pix of old Ike and thought this might stir up a little. When you look at the pix check out Ike's left leg....This is the last known pix of Ike taken in 1923 in south Hemet. Maybe we have a lead from this to the old Pegleg mine.... What do you think Oro are you checking this out ??

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

Pegleglooker that is an awesome historical photo, and I had heard of Ike before but never that he had a peg leg. Now it may be just that it appears to be a peg leg in the photo, but it sure looks like one to me.

It is a very interesting lead to follow up on the Pearl ship, but I would hesitate before attaching anything to the much older Pegleg's black gold nuggets story as we are talking a timeline difference - the original Pegleg was born 1801 died 1866, while Butcherknife Ike was active from before WW I (<1914) into the 1920's so half a century at least. It is possible, and worth investigating but.....

Love that photo bud!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

hey all,
I just received about 10 articles about the lost ship from several magazine's and found some very interesting things. The most interesting thing to me, is a article from 1983 about a man named Lawrence Justus. According to this article he FOUND the ship !!!!! He was in negotiations with the BLM and he was looking to have the area set aside for " proper " archaeologist to preserve and protect the site. He was also looking for a 50/50 split on the treasure " if any is found ". If no treasure was found, he wanted to be able to live at the site as the caretaker. GREAT story... He believed that the ship was located on " restricted " area. This leads me to believe we are back to the Superstitions again. Apparently he was able to find the ship using aerial photographs from the 1940's that was done by the military. I'm sure that nearly 70yrs of earthquakes and flash floods has changed the topography at least a little. He contacted a local museum in the Imperial County to help with the whole process. And as most of these stories end, the poor guy died before anything could come of it.

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigo Pegleglooker,

Pegleglooker wrote:

This leads me to believe we are back to the Superstitions again.

Why would you think that amigo? Do you mean Superstition mountain California or Superstition mountains Arizona? Just curious, thank you in advance,
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey Mr Oro,
The mountain range that I would refer to would be in California. According to this article, he seems to imply that the ship is located within some sort of combination of BLM and military land. In this area, the most commonly know places would be the Carrizo Impact Area, Chocolate Mts, and lastly the Superstition Mt. The only one of these area's that was the closest to the ancient beachline would be Superstition. Plus it is not far from the city of Imperial where another story goes of a old rancher finding and selling gems from a sunken ship in a sand dune. Another story from George Mroczkowski is about a friend of his who he calls " Windy " Morton and his find of a ship in the sand south of the border. I have posted pixs of this find in this post ( see reply 138 ). I also agree with Mr. Mroczkowski that there are definitely more than just 1 lost ship in the desert. And don't forget about the viking ship of the Myrtle Botts fame.
One of these stories ( from the articles I received ) goes into some detail about the guide from Anza. It goes as far as too name him and give a description of the basic area. Jesus Espinoza was a scout for the 1775 expedition for De Anza. According to this article Anza was 2 days out from Yuma when the scout Espinozawas " was sent ahead to try and locate a pass through the Chocolate Mts, that could be negotiated by the expeditions wagons ". It goes on to say how the scout searched through the lower foothills of the Chocolate and finally made camp ( I assume that would be the end of the 3rd day ). When he woke the next morning, he headed west for one hour ( how do they know that ? ) and decided that " he scouted ahead far enough and found the best route through the Chocolates. He rode to the top of the last rise he intended to climb, and saw before him on the horizon, a low but sheer-faced ridge, extending from the Chocolates to well below the horizon to the south. As long as he had travelled this far, he thought it best to ride to the ridgeand find a opening through which the wagons could pass. Approaching the ridge, he found it to be a natural wall, a high as 300ft in some places. The walls were sheer and impossible to scale, as the winds of the centuries had eroded away all the loose, sloping soil leaving behind a inner rock core of the original hills. Espinoza rode north, searching for a way through the wall. After 5 hrs ride ( how do they know that ? ), he came upon a ravine eating it way into and possibly through the ridge. Overlooking this entrance to the gorge, as if standing silent guard was a huge mass of rock, " carved like a Indian's head " as Espinoza described later ( WHAT!!! they have a actual quote ?? ).
He entered the ravine on horseback and followed it as far as he could, then continued on foot. He arrived at the end of the ravine, and was faced with a dead end. Above Espinoza's head some 50ft off the ravine floor, was a large natural rock archway, about 20ft in diameter, which seemed to be a natural doorway to the other side of the ridge. The ravine wall was deeply etched, and there were plenty of footholds for Espinoza to use. He climbed up the wall reaching the arch, and looked through it. He was stunned by the sight, for as far as he could see, there was nothing but a sea of salt desert. He scrambled through the archway for a better view, and as soon as his awe subsided enough for him to notice details of the landscape, he saw a odd black shape sticking out of the salt far off in the distance. At first Espinoza couldn't believe what he saw, for he was certain the thing had ship's mast !!! To Espinoza a ship in the middle of the desert was a impossibility. He was determined to reach the thing and Identify it for himself."
OK, so to me, the ship was seen looking west from the Chocolate Mts, and of course when he got to the ship he loaded himself up with as many pearls as he could carry. As he left he turned around and noticed a " Indian head " rock formation staring directly at the ship and got freaked out by the " evil spirit " stories he heard. He then headed to the mission in San Diego and lived off the pearls for awhile until he went broke. He then organized a team to go look for the ship several times but never found it again. no doubt that it became covered by sand and was lost. The thing about this story is if its true, that would place the general area in the same place as the Jacobsen story that I printed before. So like I was trying to find out before if Anza's guide REALLY did find Jacobson's ship and " if " this is true then we have a match. To be continued tommorrow...

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigo Pegleglooker,

Thank you for the excellent, well-explained post! I kind of figured that you meant CA and NOT Arizona, but lately things have been confusing on some other threads and I was among the confused!

You have shown yourself to be an excellent researcher, I remember where you found the confirmation that a guide in de Anza's party DID go 'AWOL' along the way, which (in my opinion) is a strong confirmation that the old story of the Pearl Ship is a FACT. I am not happy that the site turns out to be such a place, if it is within the Carrizo 'impact zone' then getting permission to enter might be a trick. Maybe not though.

You know, I can even understand how a guy could get "spooked" in that area, especially in that time. There are some places in the southern California desert country that has a very strange "feel" to it, almost like it is "haunted" if you know what I mean? If we were to add in the possibility of hostile Indios to what is already a relatively 'spooky' area, it is quite understandable how Espinoza could have gotten a bit nervous and decided to high-tail it to 'civilization'.

Here is a question for you amigo - what if you find the Pearl Ship? Will you let it be known to the 'world'? I hope that you will!

Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope that you find the Pearl Ship and all the other treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Mr Oro,
Thankx for all the kind words. However ,I'm not " really " sold on this article. To me it just smacks of creative journalism. How in the world does one know that Espinoza was at one place for a hour or rode 5 hrs ?? I mean to me, the only way that can happen is from a " eye witness ". If anyone knows of a eye witness account somewhere... I'm listening. I am also not aware of any newspaper in Southern California around the late 1700's, and even if there was one I'm pretty sure there would not be a " interview " with someone who deserted De Anza. Even the mission records are a bit sketchy. I have been able to locate several Espinoza's, but not one Jesus. I am posting some pixs of the records ( maybe someone can translate them ). I can find marriage records but no death or birth records for this time period. Plus the marriage records are from the mission San Gabriel not San Diego. So Naturally I start thinking maybe they are his kids getting married... could be.. However there was not a groom or brides father name that began with Jesus. Besides this according the article he headed towards the Chocolate Mts. When according to Anza's own diary, he was already out on the desert floor.

Sunday March 6.To add to our ills, in the morning we learned that our guide had fled, leaving us his poor weapons as signs at the place where he had slept. For this reason, and for the lack of water which we were suffering, I sent six men with a corporal to look for the watering place which our runaway guide had said was nearby. The corporal bore appropriate instructions in case he should find heathen there or in any other place and to report to me whether or not he had found the water.

This was from Anza'a first exploration of 1774-1775, not the later colonization. Furthermore the more one reads this one tends to believe that the " guide " may have been a local Indian, not someone who came from Sonora. One has to also remember that in early Nov 1775 about 800 Kumeyaay Indians attacked the recently moved mission and destroyed and burned nearly everything. So in less than a year there was a TON of turmoil going on at the mission. Most of us have at one time or another have heard the story of a local Indian paying for things in gold, and yes there are " bad spirits " in connection with this. But I'll bet this local saw all the pearls and didn't worry about the spirits because it wasn't gold ( well... maybe ). He may have gone to a mission and lived high off the hog for awhile... San Gabriel was the other " major " mission nearest to the area. I guess my concern about San Diego is that Anza used the area and may have had people there, soldiers, etc.

March 23 1774
Because of this lack of provisions, and since the presidio of Monte Rey is still a hundred and twenty leagues away, we agreed, the two fathers and I, to send to ask for the necessary provisions at the port of San Diego, and also for some riding animals, so that if we obtained the one and the other we could continue our journey with all of our expedition to the presidio of Monte Rey, and from there go back by a direct route to one of the places from which we have come, to find out at once if it is possible to open a direct route from the presidio to the province of Sonora.

Tuesday, April 5.At noon today the men who went to San Diego returned. The commanders of the frigate and the port replied to me that the supplies which they are sending are all they can spare without injuring themselves, and that they can not spare any mounts. The provisions consist only of six fanegas [Footnote 125] of maize, half spoiled, a tierce of jerked meat, unfit to eat, a tierce of flour and two fanegas of beans.

To me this shows that Anza or Anza's men would have a good knowledge of San Diego and that being so.... Why would someone go there if he was deserting the same Anza. This is why I think I have at least " consider " another location. But where ?? San Gabriel maybe.
OK Oro what are your thought ?

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigo Pegleglooker (and everyone),

I realize that I am not telling you anything you don't already know - but when it comes to records from the Spanish colonial period we are working with a tiny fraction of what originally existed. There are reasons why we don't have those records, Indian uprisings being one part but in particular we almost never find any WILLS. I did a quick check and the first newspaper in California started in 1846, for Arizona it was 1859 and I failed to find when the first papers started in Baja or Sonora, but it looks like there was no newspaper -there-. That does not rule out the possibility of a newspaper reporter from a major city being present, which would mean searching through Mexico city, Durango etc newspaper archives. I would suggest the London and New York Times archives as they have much online, but apparently nothing dating prior to the 1850s. So I am no help there, sorry to admit.

I sure wish I could get at my own maps and file drawers, which are buried deep inside our moving truck. I am hoping to correct this situation by fall though. (not another winter in a camper!) Anyway just my opinion but I would not rule out that there could have been a Jesus Espinoza even though none has turned up - Jesus was a popular name and if he were Indio, he might not even be recorded in the lists of members of de Anza's expedition.


Like so many other legendary lost treasures we have trouble in verifying the facts, dates and people. In many cases it is simply not possible to verify these things - but we can rule things out.

Here is Font's map drawn of Anza's expedition

We don't know what sort of map Anza had with him, if he had any - but we can compare to Garces map to get an idea of how accurate or rather in-accurate what ever map he might have had would have been

Now if I had my own topos or even the state atlas I could offer a bit more, but you must have good maps of the terrain.
Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

hey guys,
I have probably close to 30 maps of California from the 1500's and up, and yes they were most likely the best guess they could have for the time. I'm including 2 google earth maps that " could " show that it would take about 3 days to get to a spot where the ship may lie. So it is plausible, but the issue I have is he would have had to cross Anza's path to the mission at San Diego. So I'm thinking he " may " have gone to San Gabriel instead. Anza in his own diary talked about sending soldiers to the mission of San Diego. And then... he also went to San Gabriel as well. Any idea's form anyone ??

 

[Oroblanco]

Just a side note here amigo but Father Garces confirms the report of the guide who went missing - check his diary entry for Mar 6th:

March 6.-The guide and some animals having fled, we were not able to set forth in the morning. Since we did not know with certainty where the next watering place was, the commander sent ahead some soldiers to reconnoiter the country which the guide had indicated. After dinner we set out to the west, and having gone three leagues along the trail we learned of the watering place called Santo Thomás. There is little pasturage, and one enters between two sierras, the direction changing so that we advanced but a short distance, although we traveled five leagues that afternoon

So the part about a guide going missing seems to be pretty solid, even if we cannot get his exact name. I have tried comparing the two diaries (de Anza and father Garces) but they sometimes seem to be talking about two completely different routes. At least that is the way it seems to me, perhaps it is lost in translation?

I think your proposed route looks to be quite possibly the correct route. (Just my opinion)
Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey all,
Good call Oro... But I noticed something even more unusual... The expedition that I quote was from the 1st Anza expedition of 1774 and his guide left on... March 6Th ( see reply 174 ). The same day yours did with Garces. So.. is Anza simply relaying the message from Garces or did 2 guides leave the same night From 2 different ( yet the same ) expeditions. Remember Garces was part of this expedition:

In January of 1774 Captain Anza, Father Francisco Garcés, a small group of soldiers and servants, and a herd of about 200 cattle and pack animals left Tubac to explore and open the needed supply route from northern Sonora to California. Under Captain Anza's leadership this first expedition established formal and friendly relationships with the Yuma tribe at the juncture of the Gila and Colorado Rivers, and elicited the active support of the tribe's chief, Salvador Palma. This support turned out to be crucial for ensuring safe passage over the rivers and preventing death from thirst and starvation when Anza was forced to retrace his steps after becoming lost in the sand dunes. On March 22, 1774 Anza and a portion of his expedition arrived at mission San Gabriel (near what is now the city of Los Angeles), having successfully found a route through near waterless deserts and uncharted mountain passes. An overland route to Alta California was now available for use in transporting supplies and colonists to the outermost reaches of northern New Spain.
I look at the date they arrived at San Gabriel mission, and think it's possible that they could have been in the right area. I just REALLY find it odd that 2 guides on the same night from 2 expeditions leave.... I just wish I had a couple of maps to compare where each of them was at the same time... Any suggestions ??

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

Well amigo I would take it that Garces was in fact accompanying Anza and was recording the very same guide that went AWOL, rather than two different incidents. I would also note that it was quite common to give 'Spanish' sounding names to Indios, so the guide might well have been an Indio but was called by a Spanish name. I am pretty sure Garces did travel with Anza on the 1774 expedition.

We do have a map showing the route taken in the 1775 colonizing expedition as drawn by father Font, as posted above - you will need a strong magnifying glass but he has marked each site of each stop along the route, and as far as I know they followed pretty much the same route as the 1774 expedition. The trick is matching it up with real geography, as Bolton attempted to do - here is one part of the route drawn up from the Bolton maps:

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Pegleglooker - do you suppose that the guide who went missing was the very one mentioned by de Anza as having been FROM California? Anza said he had come to join up by the Colorado-gila river junction but got "lost" in the sand dunes so Anza did not follow the route he (the Californio) originally proposed.

IF (the biggest two-letter-word in the English language) this guide who went AWOL and the Californio are one and the same man, we need not wonder how it was that he was able to go from the Pearl Ship straight to the Spanish settlements on the coast. Then to find his name it might be possible to find a list of the people living around each of the missions, this would be quite a task to search for and I don't know if any lists even exist.
Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Oro check your personal email.
PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

hello all,
Yeah I agree Oreo, I thought it was the same guide. But I'm just questioning which mission he went to.. If I am from Yuma and I just found a TON of pearls.. Why would I head to the coast or San Gabriel. I would head back to Yuma. It was the closest mission of all of them and I would have family there. Plus one of the articles said that he ( the guide ) died in Yuma.. Just my 2 cents...

PLL