The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Ben,

[Mr. Ribaudo,

I should not share this with you but why not.

The heart in Boulder Canyon is not important because of the mineral vein in close proximity or the trinkets that have been discovered there or the oil based substance there identical to the substance found on the Tucson Artifacts. What is important there is the burial site of for a lack of a better word the husband of the lady who created the Trail Maps. The head stone reads in hebrew, "May the stars shine brightly on this spot and keep you safe" The folks who ventured into the Superstitions in search of the holy mine were from the middle east. They were sent there by a family. After burying her husband, her heart, she and several others created the monuments, high above Boulder Canyon, left two trail maps in them and left America.

Perhaps you would do better spending less time calling folks liars and spend more time trying to understand the truth of what you have been given. After all you have known the truth since your discoveries in Boulder Canyon. The Heart was only a small part of what is there and we all know it.]
__________________________________________________

That's always the question with you, isn't it? Why not share a little more, and then you make up something new and even more fantastic.

As for me calling people "liars", would you say this post is truthful?

[Recently I was in Downieville, California and came across a hardback book by a gentlemen named Sims Ely. The book and a number of letters from the Pheonix area were being sold at a yard sale by an elderly lady who was cleaning out her garage. Seems her husband had passed away recently. Her family was from the Pheonix area and the material had belonged to her husband. Anyway I bought the books and letters, for five dollars. I have read a bit of the book and have to admit it is quite good. Haven`t looked at the letters yet but they seem to be addressed to Mr. Ely.

I have prospected for gold in california for many years. Moved here 10 years ago from georgia. My grandad use to prospect a lot in the Dahlonega area of n georgia. Anyway we have our share of lost mines up here and i have never done much but just look for gold never lost mines. I am curious is Mr. Ely a reliable source and is the lost dutchman mine still being looked for.

Also is there any museum, etc., in the Pheonix area that might be interested in this material. I would be happy to donate it once I finish reading the material.

I just stumbled across this website today.

regards,

Late49er]
_____________________________________

What about this one?

[The book was signed by Mr. Ely. There is a personal note to a Mr. Tom Watson. I finished up the book today and really enjoyed his story. He seems quite the story teller and it seems like he knew what he was talking about. There are 17 letters of correspondence between Mr. Ely and Mr. Watson. From what I can tell Mr. Watson was a banker in Tonopah Nevada, and years ago was involved in the opening of unclaimed safety deposit box at the bank. Anyway Mr. Watson wrote Mr. Ely about something in the box and the two of them apparently prospected your area and did quite well with the material. One of the letters indicated they covered up the entrance to a I believe mine shaft once they had removed some ore. I really don`t understand a lot of what I am reading but they seem to be well acquanted with each other. Anyway hope this adds to you material and given the nature of this material any idea of who might be interested in this bit of history. Whoever receives this stuff I only want it to made available to anyone who is interested.

Regards,

Late 49er

Just a thought given the book and material is it pretty likely that this mine is mined pretty much out?]
_________________________________

Did you mix a few fib's in there with some small bits of true historical people?

I have many, many more examples of why I might say something about the truthfulness of some posters, but it would get pretty boring.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
___________________________________

For anyone interested in the subject, you can find Late49ers posts, starting with the oldest here:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine....=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=278&start=105

 

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[Springfield]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Why do people say that something us much too precious or risky to talk about, then make a dozen or more posts, talking about it?

That's a no-brainer: they crave attention. And they know enough about human nature to realize what attracts the naive and the gullible. It's a ruse that works frequently.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Jola amigos,

This is a very long reply, and is mainly for Starman so anyone else please feel free to skip this post and I won't be offended in any way.

Starman wrote

Roy,

If you are interested in the Hebrew markings in a cave on Bluff Spring Mountain you might want to dig a little deeper. There are references to it in the popular press. In fact a rather well known local has even mentioned it. An astute investigator should be able to locate it. Of course the cave is no longer accessable.

Of course! Unlike the Los Lunas Dekalogue stone in NM, this Hebrew inscription you mention is inaccessible. Got photos of them to prove they exist? How about simple, hand drawn sketches? Even that would help your case on this point a little.

Starman also wrote

I only indicated why I go to Fish Creek Canyon. Why you go there is your business. What is beautiful there exists whether anyone appreciates it or not. Maybe you were there confirming the location of Atlantis. You did say you know where it is didn`t you?

Your posts were rather unclear if what you really meant was why you personally go to Fish creek canyon. I went looking for any sign of a missing person, not anything else, and did not find any evidence of the missing person. So maybe I must have been trodding across an ancient battlefield, and blindly missing secret treasure symbols without perceiving either.

Yes I know where Atlantis is, Plato describes it so well that it surprises me that many others have not already identified it. I can't see any description of the Superstitions in Plato however. Do you think Plato is describing the Superstitions?
Starman also wrote

As far as our friends in Tucson go, I imagine the switch was accomplished before the museum even received the artifacts. If you are interested you should again do a little homework and look into the history of the artifacts before assuming your position.

Since you do not believe any of this is real why get so upset. Obviously a plane load of historical artifacts from a mythical place in the Superstitions, Oz, could never have left the Phoenix Airport and flown all the way to South Africa. On the other hand if such a flight did take place and the relics were the few remaining remains of a people who lost so much I would not get so upset. I suspect the gold and copper plates mentioned before were on that flight also. Seems you may have been closer to the truth of Atlantis than you suspect.

I thought I made my reasons quite clear as to why I am strongly against the practice of spreading phony stories about remote areas in the Superstitions. Perhaps you missed it? Other people read these forums, not just you and I; some of them take what is written very seriously and will risk their lives to try to see those ancient Roman ruins or remains of Atlantis or Oz etc in the Superstitions, which any experienced hiker well familiar with the Superstitions can tell, doesn't exist. Some of these people become lost, injured and even die. So I am very down on the practice of spreading false stories of such things in the Superstitions, for it is a type of reckless endangerment on the part of the story tellers. As you are unwilling to post concrete evidence to support your stories (in the form of some photos which would help) you fall into that category of the story tellers.
Let me ask you this hypothetical question Starman, which may well come true in fact; suppose someone reads your story of Hebrew inscriptions in a hidden cave on Bluff Springs mountain, hikes up there, slips and breaks his neck. How would you feel about that, having sent someone there to get seriously hurt? Not to mention the man-hours spent on searches for lost hikers, the sheer dollar cost of operating the search and rescue helicopters etc. Won't you feel at least a bit of responsibility, or do you shrug off ALL responsibility for anything you might utter and place all blame on the persons who read and trusted your words?

As for your suggestion that I should "dig deeper" - i was only trusting your words, if your words were true, to postulate the position. You have made the claims, not me, therefore you can't be expecting your readers to do your research for you. Time is limited for all of us, can't spend it foolishly.

Besides, you have stated how important it is for those ancient sites to be protected, yet stand idly by while artifacts are stolen from Arizona and smuggled to South Africa, rather a contradictory position in my view. There are legal ways to obtain ownership of lost treasures that are found, simply taking them and spiriting them out of the country is utterly illegal on several levels. If your story is true, then your continued protection for the thieves, smugglers and looters is alarming to say the least. Were I in that position and the story true, I would be concerned about possible prison time for ME, just for the aiding and abetting alone.

Don't concern yourself about whether I am "upset" or not, I just take a very dim view of what it appears that you are doing. I don't get "upset" easily, and you won't have to read between the lines in such a case. Our readers are free to make their own decisions of course, but at least they will see that some do not believe these stories and your extreme reluctance to post any kind of photographic substantiation which may help them make sound and safe decisions before heading into the Superstitions.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,
_______________________________

[Jola amigos,

This is a very long reply, and is mainly for Starman so anyone else please feel free to skip this post and I won't be offended in any way.

Starman wrote

Quote
Roy,

If you are interested in the Hebrew markings in a cave on Bluff Spring Mountain you might want to dig a little deeper. There are references to it in the popular press. In fact a rather well known local has even mentioned it. An astute investigator should be able to locate it. Of course the cave is no longer accessable.
Of course! Unlike the Los Lunas Dekalogue stone in NM, this Hebrew inscription you mention is inaccessible. Got photos of them to prove they exist? How about simple, hand drawn sketches? Even that would help your case on this point a little.]

Tom Kollenborn mentions the story here:

http://www.ajnews.com/vol12/102708/pdfs/AJNEWS_102708.pdf

Take care,

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

tag post

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

good evening. One thing that always bothers me is that if you wish to leave a permanent record of your passing, or of your group, why do they always seem to go to inaccesable areas to do so ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Tom's stories are always fascinating.Extensively researched and well written,they have certainly allowed me to gain much knowledge about the history of the Superstitions and the many tall tales of the Dutch Hunter's,past and present.No one can tell it better than Tom I believe,and his own life spent in the mountains and among those very same characters,many of them friends with whom he shared coffee around a campfire,gives his opinions more credibility that most.
Tom has undoubtedly stuck his head into more caves out there than anyone else.He is one of very few who have seen Joe Modock's "lost diamond mine",for example.
That cave did not,in fact,yield anything more than calcite crystals,common in karst formations.Nor is there any indisputable proof of any other cave in the Supes having yielded any gold bars or piles of concentrated gold ore.

Regards:SH.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,
_______________________________

[Jola amigos,

This is a very long reply, and is mainly for Starman so anyone else please feel free to skip this post and I won't be offended in any way.

Starman wrote

Quote
Roy,

If you are interested in the Hebrew markings in a cave on Bluff Spring Mountain you might want to dig a little deeper. There are references to it in the popular press. In fact a rather well known local has even mentioned it. An astute investigator should be able to locate it. Of course the cave is no longer accessable.
Of course! Unlike the Los Lunas Dekalogue stone in NM, this Hebrew inscription you mention is inaccessible. Got photos of them to prove they exist? How about simple, hand drawn sketches? Even that would help your case on this point a little.]

Tom Kollenborn mentions the story here:

http://www.ajnews.com/vol12/102708/pdfs/AJNEWS_102708.pdf

Take care,
Joe

If I were to guess, I would say that's not the right reference Joe. I may be wrong however.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Cactusjumper wrote

Tom Kollenborn mentions the story here

Thanks Joe, I had not read that article, and did not recall any Hebrew connection to the LaFrance story. However that was a qualified "maybe" Hebrew, not definitely, and I was hoping that Starman had something to substantiate it rather than simply passing along another story without foundation.

Real de Tayopa wrote

One thing that always bothers me is that if you wish to leave a permanent record of your passing, or of your group, why do they always seem to go to inaccesable areas to do so ?

Some certainly didn't, like El Morro in NM or Inscription Rock (WY), Register Cliff, Independence Rock, etc so when they turn up in such inaccessible locations it may well be a red flag for a hoax.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Paul & Roy,

I believe the story is in what you read. I can't go back to it from this computer, so I will look again at work tomorrow. I read it, and then posted the site address......simple copy and paste of the address. It could be I misread it, but I don't think so. Perhaps you could go back and reread the entire article.

It has nothing to do with the part about Harry LaFrance. Maybe I looked at something else and posted the wrong address.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I can't access the story from that link anymore Joe and Tom's Chronicles website won't link to any articles prior to 2008 anymore either.

I didn't read the full article yesterday when I could see it - I know I had read it in the past but can't remember everything that was in it. If it mentioned a bronze cross and/or Marjorie McNulty, then that is what I believe is the cave that was being referenced.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Paul and Roy,

The story is in the third column from the right side of the page, below the pictures of Bob Ward and Crazy Jake.

Nice to know I have not lost my memory completely.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Yup - found it as well Joe. I didn't realize that Chronicle article by Tom had so many different short snippet stories. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Oro de Tayopa" You posted -->Some certainly didn't, like El Morro in NM or Inscription Rock (WY), Register Cliff, Independence Rock, etc so when they turn up in such inaccessible locations it may well be a red flag for a hoax.

Oroblanco
************
Ya got it my friend, my precise thoughts.

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Yup - found it as well Joe. I didn't realize that Chronicle article by Tom had so many different short snippet stories. Thanks for pointing it out.

Paul,

Just trying to do my little bit/contribution, as best I can.

Take care,

Joe

 

[starman 1]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Gentlemen and I might add one lady,

Well I guess Mr. K will have to do hard time if anyone breaks their neck on Bluff Springs Mountain looking for a cave with Hebrew writing. At least I pointed out to folks that the cave has been sealed.

And Jim Bark`s interest in Fish Creek Canyon is just not right. He should have shown a concern for future visitors to the range before spending time there.

It seems Mr. Ribaudo has vapor locked, as I believe Late onced described it, on his discoveries in (little boulder) canyon. Good thing the grave site and its contents are safely in South Africa. Imagine the skull would be in someone`s living room and other things would have made their way to a belt buckle. Maybe Mr. Ribaudo could point out that his mineral deposit heads directly west to Coronado Mesa. The bee`s wax? Imagine that just tells us the bees have been there a long time.

Also he might mention the site hole in his monument looked out to the west. And the monuments themselves were not just destroyed they were removed from the proximity of the saddle. That took a little bit of time, dedication and technology to complete. And the mine well once that is dug out heads will role, in several senses. Suspect there are still a few gold bars in there if Walt`s observations were correct.

The legitimacy and end point of the maps seem to have lost all of their importance in the merriment so perhaps it should be pointed out again that the trail maps are legitimate and the h/p map is a fraud. The proof of the h/p fraud is simple and is well documented in the popular press. Again the question is why does the h/p map lead you to the eastern part of the range and the trail maps lead to the western part of the range. The answer is simple. The trail maps uncover a truth the h/p map covers it up.

Somehiker, I have posted here again only because of your comments about a offer. It took a while to figure out what you meant and a response will be posted on the other site where you raised the point. I will ask you something though. In you stay in Sedona did you visit the Chapel of the Cross? And if you did was there something you could see that is germaine to all of this? I will say this about your offer. It is real. Maybe it is all about alpha, omega, infinity, and a equilateral triangel. They are all on the map aren`t they?

One final comment. For those of you who want answers. Do your homework. We will only point a way. If the answer is not in you already it was never meant for you to find.

Enjoyed the dialogue. May the stars keep each of you safe.

Starman, Martin

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Starman wrote

Well I guess Mr. K will have to do hard time if anyone breaks their neck on Bluff Springs Mountain looking for a cave with Hebrew writing. At least I pointed out to folks that the cave has been sealed.

Maybe you would see that differently if you re-read Mr K's article; he pointed out that it was a "one man story" unsubstantiated by any other source, suggesting that it is fiction rather than lending it credence as you did. A very different "spin" than you were giving it.

As for the rest of your statements, it sounds like it will be a pretty good book. Not one that I will be buying mind you, my budget and literary tastes run strictly to non-fiction or rarely very good fiction (a small fraction of fiction is actually good IMO) so that is one sale you may miss. The market however is very large for what you have been posting so it should sell very well indeed.

For the record (which I realize has little bearing on this for some folks) Jacob Waltz only ever sold raw gold and gold ore, not one witness ever stated that he was seen in possession of any gold bars, nor have I ever seen any mention of gold bars in any of the statements allegedly attributed to him.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I just want to add, for those who are thinking about hiking Fish Creek Canyon (either way), what the "pros" have to say about the area.

Be prepared - be very prepared.


http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=762

http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=44


Bear in mind, that you will be putting out for an 8 hour hike - be prepared NOT to get back the same day, and be prepared to have someone looking for you if you don't get back by a certain time.

Starman,

How did you know we went to Fish Creek Canyon?


Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Beth,

On 8/16/11, Roy wrote this:


"Your posts were rather unclear if what you really meant was why you personally go to Fish creek canyon. I went looking for any sign of a missing person, not anything else, and did not find any evidence of the missing person. So maybe I must have been trodding across an ancient battlefield, and blindly missing secret treasure symbols without perceiving either."

That would be how Ben (Starman) knew you had been there.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I just want to add, for those who are thinking about hiking Fish Creek Canyon (either way), what the "pros" have to say about the area.

Be prepared - be very prepared.


http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=762

http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=44


Bear in mind, that you will be putting out for an 8 hour hike - be prepared NOT to get back the same day, and be prepared to have someone looking for you if you don't get back by a certain time.

Starman,

How did you know we went to Fish Creek Canyon?


Beth

Nice pictures - looks like a great hike. Also looks like a good reason to buy a pair of those new Vibrams FiveFingers water hikers.